Book 2 – Text Updates 006

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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 006

Postby badninja » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:01 am

theseus2x wrote:Right now? Not even Parson's fight.


It will be, do not forget what Jannis told Sizemore. Parson will be dealing with this very shortly. This story is only just beginning and it is going to be needing Parson sooner rather then later. So I see it as his fight, he just is not there yet.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 006

Postby the_tick_rules » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:13 am

So Jillian hiding forces? Sure sounds like GK is having it piled on. But given how much the first RCC lost and don King pessimistic predictions it sounds like it's still anyone's game.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 006

Postby Django » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:52 am

I guess my estimate that Charlie had "significant" veiled Archons in the Battle Space is correct, however are they in the hex, are they enough or even a "significant" number of his forces say 200 or are we talking about 20... I guess we will find out.

Atleast my second prediction fared better than my first, that Ossomer would not be captured by the sorty...
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 006

Postby Menlo Marseilles » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:02 am

mblackadder wrote:
Dr Pepper wrote:No It's been what? 120 turns of Erfworld for Parson to date?
72 turns, actually.

A fascinating update, all around.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 006

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:13 am

I wonder if 700 turns ago is when Faq (probably Jillian) "captured and turned" Wanda.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 006

Postby Firkraag » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:14 am

So yup, now we know that's her caster, the White Mage/Healomancer...
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 006

Postby gameboy1234 » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:16 am

mblackadder wrote:
Dr Pepper wrote:"Titans disband"? That's one heavy piece of swearing.

700 turns? No wonder Parson's getting buff; he's been going up and down those stairs every day for 2 years now.

That's not her total age. As seven hundred turns ago she was a merc. However we know she stopped being a Merc when the Grand Coalition 1 was organized. Plus she would have poped her heir by now if seven hundred turns had passed since the start of Book 1. No It's been what? 120 turns of Erfworld for Parson to date?


Jillian could be older than 700 turns. Her update seems to imply that she's been a mercenary that long. However, she was popped before Faq fell, so it's likely that she spent at least a few turns there, before leaving for merc work.

This implies that Wanda is even older, perhaps far older. If Wanda was present for many turns before Jillian was even popped, and Wanda existed as a unit before Faq captured her... Wanda could be really old. Ansom and all the rest are a bunch of kids compared to Wanda.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 006

Postby Zeku » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:20 am

The background on that art is nice. I hope to see more experimentation like this.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 006

Postby Angband » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:54 am

Firkraag wrote:So yup, now we know that's her caster, the White Mage/Healomancer...


That's Vanna the Turnamancer.

We know that Faq has been unable to pop any casters.



OK, so where did Faq get a caster?



And who is Vanna a reference to? The model from Wheel of Fortune who would turn the letters around after players guessed them. That person's full name is Vanna White. Hence the Final Fantasy White Mage garb on her.

So, I'd like to buy a vowel: SH_ IS NOT A H_ALOMANC_R
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 006

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:02 am

Very good indeed, I enjoy these updates that give us a bit of a look into the heads of major Erfworld figures. I feel for Jillian. Touching on her background as a barbarian was interesting and what she is feeling emotionally about all this, a bit on Charlie and Don King, a bit about Ansom and Wanda - the idea of rejoining Wanda and Ansom like that...

And Titans I can't wait for Jillian and Charlie to launch whatever it is they have planned. I'm happy about that, I hope it is spectacular - and it should be it Charlie really has significant forces about.

And as suspected, Jillian is definitely still on with Charlie's plan, and keeping that a secret from the rest of the Coalition. And the mystery caster is just referred to as the caster, which makes me think (even more so) that it isn't Vanna, since she has been named back in Faq just fine, so no reason for Jillian now to be thinking of her so.

Nice to see Duncan has also taken to his role well and has made friends with the other warlords. :D

And more info on seeing through a veil - a Foolamancer, an Archon or a lucky/smart warlord - the last one is interesting lucky and/or smart? But also - if Charlie really does have significant Archon forces around, and veiled, then they and GK decrypted Archons haven't seen one another. Charlie is smart, as is Jillian to have gone to such lengths to avoid detection, so I guess steps were taken to avoid a decrypted archon blowing the whistle. I wonder where they could be.

Oh, and age - so Jillian is 700+ turns old, Don King last left the capital 400 turns ago... not really relevent, just interesting to see how long it has taken to get the Jillian we have now (and her level). And as someone else said - Wanda could be one of the older characters we know well. Interesting.

Sonic Screwdriver wrote:That's probably the part that Jillian didn't tell Slately, her veiled Archons. Ossomer never mentioned their existence, yet they were escorting the group.


Yes, I think it's a given (as I've said in previous threads - not Archon's just she kept secret Charlie and her having a plan, and that is why she is there), though this is the first time we've gotten some proof Charlie might actually be planning to commit lots of Archons. I wonder to what effect though - capturing Wanda? Croaking Wanda?

And as a secret - you'd think that would freak, and I mean FREAK, the Jetstone forces. If they really bought into the idea Charlie was with GK then suddenly seeing a whole bunch of Archons decloaking nearby would be nerve wrecking.

the_tick_rules wrote:So Jillian hiding forces? Sure sounds like GK is having it piled on. But given how much the first RCC lost and don King pessimistic predictions it sounds like it's still anyone's game.


Well Don King apparently doesn't know about Charlie being a (hidden) power behind Jillian's throne, so at the moment he thinks what is at Jetstone is it, and the deciding battle is about to be fought for the sake of Erf.

Firkraag wrote:So yup, now we know that's her caster, the White Mage/Healomancer...


I don't think they will be revealed as a Healomancer (even with that particular dress sense). Jetstone already has one, in the field to boot, so the introduction of another would be slightly less impressive. Plus I'm not sure why a healomancer would be such a significant addition to Jillian's force (considering the build up).

Angband wrote:OK, so where did Faq get a caster?


Same place they got Vanna, from the MK via Charlie (if it isn't Vanna).

And who is Vanna a reference to? The model from Wheel of Fortune who would turn the letters around after players guessed them. That person's full name is Vanna White. Hence the Final Fantasy White Mage garb on her.


It is an interesting idea, with a lot going for it, but I doubt it is Vanna, if only because of the build up - while Vanna was named freely in the summer update now, here, it is "And the Caster had almost nothing to say at all". Mysterious.

Although - does Vanna the letter turner ever talk on Wheel of Fortune? If not I guess that would also fit in with Jillian's rather quite mystery caster.
And so my time with the Tardy Elves draws to a close, and I am let to ponder how the experience will... eh, I'll finish later. No need to rush.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 006

Postby yay » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:28 am

i don't think the mystery caster will be a healomancer or Vanna, because they have already been revealed (healomancer not so much since he wasn't shown at the bridge. there are enough unrevealed caster types that one of them could have a game changing move to counter decryption

second thought, could be healomancer. if healomancy acts like generic white magic it can turn undead/decrypted. thus making jetstones healomancer alot more important therefore plot heavy
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 006

Postby Gez » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:55 am

gameboy1234 wrote:This implies that Wanda is even older, perhaps far older. If Wanda was present for many turns before Jillian was even popped, and Wanda existed as a unit before Faq captured her... Wanda could be really old. Ansom and all the rest are a bunch of kids compared to Wanda.

Who said Ansom (for example) was popped last night? Getting to level 10 probably took a long time. Progression through levels is exponential. It takes more time to go from level 6 to 7 than from level 1 all the way to 6.

And who said Wanda was ever captured by Faq? If it's about the "Croatan" thing, keep in mind that the Gobwin Knob tribe name is not "Gobwin Knob" but "Plaid", so there is absolutely no reason to believe that "Croatan" cannot be the Faq tribe name.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 006

Postby fractal » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:01 am

Gez wrote:Who said Ansom (for example) was popped last night? Getting to level 10 probably took a long time. Progression through levels is exponential. It takes more time to go from level 6 to 7 than from level 1 all the way to 6.

What are you basing that conclusion on? Even if levels are exponential, each one could require something like 50% more xp than the level before it. If that is true, and going from one to two takes 32 xp, then one to six will take 32+48+72+108+162 = 422 xp, while six to seven takes only 243 xp. Furthermore, at level six you're probably a lot better at killing things than you were at level one, so you can accumulate xp faster (possibly six times faster... if power is a linear multiple of level, then time = 243/6 = 40.5 to level from six to seven, compared to 32+48/2+72/3+108/4+162/5 = 139.4 to level from one to six).

Of course, if Wanda decides to power-level you off of Ansom's hard work, there's no telling how fast you might accumulate xp.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 006

Postby PlotArmour » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:37 am

Ugh. Ok, looks like I'm done with this comic for now unless it picks up... I can't believe we're being pitched the "200 Archons out of nowhere, totally awesome, cool cool cool!!!" as a plausible and satisfying outcome to this book... come on. Not only is it a huge dues ex machina, but come on, even a master like Jack leaves traces to spot. And he's the most amazing ever. Yet we're supposed to buy the archons can do enough to hide an army of archons... ugh. And that none of the warlords, lookouts, etc, have been able to spot them. Plus, the way the turn system works, they should be unable to enter the battlespace without people knowing. Again, ridiculous.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 006

Postby pSycHOtic chICkeN » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:38 am

Dr Pepper wrote:700 turns? No wonder Parson's getting buff; he's been going up and down those stairs every day for 2 years now.


no, Jillian was running missions as a mercenary a long time before Parson's was summoned to Erf.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 006

Postby atalex » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:08 am

Personally, I think the white mage is Vanna the Turnamancer. In addition to all the other reasons put forth, I think the most dramatically interesting thing that could happen right now would be for either Jack or better yet Ansom to be turned. Getting Jack would be a coup for RCC2. Getting Ansom would be a complete game-changer, since it would imply that any DeCrypted could be turned. It also plays well off of recent events, sine up until last week, most people never even suspected that the DeCrypted could be turned until Ansom started getting randy all of the sudden.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 006

Postby Dancing Cthulhu » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:33 am

PlotArmour wrote:Ugh. Ok, looks like I'm done with this comic for now unless it picks up...


Picks up what? Speed?

I can't believe we're being pitched the "200 Archons out of nowhere, totally awesome, cool cool cool!!!" as a plausible and satisfying outcome to this book... come on.


The book is 12 pages long, I doubt it will be an outcome. And 200 Archons? Where does that figure come from? Sure, Charlie has a lot, but that is more then he keeps in his city, so it would mean pulling them back from the field.

Not only is it a huge dues ex machina, but come on, even a master like Jack leaves traces to spot. And he's the most amazing ever. Yet we're supposed to buy the archons can do enough to hide an army of archons... ugh. And that none of the warlords, lookouts, etc, have been able to spot them. Plus, the way the turn system works, they should be unable to enter the battlespace without people knowing. Again, ridiculous.


Charlie committing Archons most certainly wouldn't be a "huge deus ex machina" or "from out of nowhere", since you know, it has been long established he has them, and can have them do what he wants. And that he and Jillian have a plan that was established back in the summer updates. Plus it wouldn't be surprising if any plan might involve archons, Charlie's only units.

As to the rest - you are criticisng something that hasn't even happened yet, and probably wont happen like you said. In this update Jillian notes a Foolamancer is a threat to any veil, as are Archons. What ever Charlie has in the area aren't going to be hanging about in danger of being spotted. Archons have a high move, they could be, if they are there, hidden in another hex behind the Jetstone capital.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 006

Postby Sonic Screwdriver » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:48 am

Charlie is a very involved player, which has been set up for ages. His army size has been established, on the order of 600, with an unknown quantity that are required to be in the field to maintain upkeep. The very idea that Jillian is going to have veiled archons is incredibly far from Deus ex Machina. It's not even a final outcome, since Janis has already established that the fight will continue where Parson will retake the reigns of leading war.

As for foolamancy veils leaving a trace, it was a minor use of foolamancy, and not a single unit actually saw the real Ansom & Wanda on their dwagons in the capture maneuver until the area was blanketed with arrows. If you go out of your way to look inconspicuous and never actually be in the same hex as the enemy (obviously a circuitous route), and hiding under tree cover when you're near enemy hexes to begin with, the plausibility is highly possible.

As for them entering battlespace without people noticing, it's quite easy. When you're allied with someone, your turn goes with theirs. Thus, when FAQ and Charlie both ally with Jetstone, their turns will occur at the same time and there will be no hiccup in time for people to notice that they've entered the battlespace.

What I want to know is why some believe that the white-garbed mage is 'obviously' some new caster. Yes, Vanna has been established, but only really to Jillian and us readers. Just because we know who she is, doesn't mean that she's beholden to tell everyone around her what her new resource is (which apparently includes Jetstone as far as keeping in the dark).
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 006

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:49 am

fractal wrote:What are you basing that conclusion on? Even if levels are exponential, each one could require something like 50% more xp than the level before it. If that is true, and going from one to two takes 32 xp, then one to six will take 32+48+72+108+162 = 422 xp, while six to seven takes only 243 xp. Furthermore, at level six you're probably a lot better at killing things than you were at level one, so you can accumulate xp faster (possibly six times faster... if power is a linear multiple of level, then time = 243/6 = 40.5 to level from six to seven, compared to 32+48/2+72/3+108/4+162/5 = 139.4 to level from one to six)..


We can assume that it takes much more than +50% for the next level. Rob once talked about leveling and stuff, and makes the exapmle that it could take 10 croaked level 1 marbits to reach level 2, and 50 croaked level 1 marbits to get to the next level. That is most likely not an exact value, but gives us a idea of the requirements to level.

By the way, I just realized that Stabley should be at least level 9 or 10. Jillian is level 9 and couldn't pay the upkeep for 3 warlords, 7 knights, 6 megalogwiffins, 26 gwiffins and 1 caster. Stanley had more than 30 dwagons, 3 knigths and 1 master-class caster, and could have paid the upkeep for them, if he became barbarian. Dwagons should at least cost the same upkeep as megalogwffins, and certainly more than gwiffins.
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Re: Book 2 – Text Updates 006

Postby Gez » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:50 am

fractal wrote:
Gez wrote:Who said Ansom (for example) was popped last night? Getting to level 10 probably took a long time. Progression through levels is exponential. It takes more time to go from level 6 to 7 than from level 1 all the way to 6.

What are you basing that conclusion on?


Word of God

fractal wrote:Even if levels are exponential, each one could require something like 50% more xp than the level before it.

Rob's example was with 10 marbits, then 50 marbits, so that's 400% more. So let's look at your numbers again with that value.

fractal wrote:If that is true, and going from one to two takes 32 xp, then one to six will take

32+160+800+4000+20000 = 24992 xp.

fractal wrote:while six to seven takes only

100000 xp.

fractal wrote:Furthermore, at level six you're probably a lot better at killing things than you were at level one, so you can accumulate xp faster (possibly six times faster...

If people were able to increase XP gain as fast or faster than XP cost increase, then people of Ansom's level wouldn't be rare.





PlotArmour wrote:Ugh. Ok, looks like I'm done with this comic for now unless it picks up... I can't believe we're being pitched the "200 Archons out of nowhere, totally awesome, cool cool cool!!!" as a plausible and satisfying outcome to this book... come on. Not only is it a huge dues ex machina, but come on, even a master like Jack leaves traces to spot. And he's the most amazing ever. Yet we're supposed to buy the archons can do enough to hide an army of archons... ugh. And that none of the warlords, lookouts, etc, have been able to spot them. Plus, the way the turn system works, they should be unable to enter the battlespace without people knowing. Again, ridiculous.

re: Deus Ex Machina.
Image

Point-by-point demolition of your argument.
- Out of nowhere? No. Out of Charlescomm base. We know he had around 600 archons before the volcano explosion. We know it's very important for him that GK loses this war, so that, despite his arkentool, he can go back to being a harmless "battlespace solutions provider" to all the Royal sides instead of an atavistic enemy.
- Satisfying outcome? It's not the outcome, it's the setup. We're still in the introduction. It's not even page 13 yet.
- Leaving traces? Yes, that's why it's said they took a long, remote road to avoid risking detection.
- Jack is the most amazing ever? Kinda hyperbole. We know he's very strong, Jillian said as much when she explained how Faq remained hidden, but that doesn't signify "most amazing ever".
- Supposing only one archon in ten has veiling powers, then each foolamantic archon only needs to veil itself and nine of her siblings. Far from an army.
- The warlords and lookouts are not looking for them. If there are archons allied with Jillian's troops, then they're allied. They go together, in the same turn, in the same stacks.

Try to make criticisms that are actually based on something.
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