Book 2 – Page 13

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Book 2 – Page 13

Postby DoctorJest » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:33 pm

theseus2x wrote:
Sinrus wrote:The Bracer doesn't "know" anything, it's a machine. In this page we see Parson typing information into the bracer. Furthermore, the fact that the percentage of success changed when Ossomer's info became available means that the bracer itself doesn't know what the composition of any forces are.


My point is the bracer couldn't possibly have had the information needed to make that calculation. Nor could Parson. Nor could Charlie. Yet it came up with a number that actually (in retrospect) seemed viable. Charlie and Parson were both impressed.


Parson seemed impressed. Charlie really didn't, just pleased with himself for thinking of using it.

The bracer just made a probability prediction that didn't require knowledge it didn't have. In fact, I was kinda surprised Charlie didn't already know about the decrypted at the time that conversation took place. If he didn't, he was about to find out imminently, just because of the exponential growth of the decrypted. What are the odds of any particular side getting intel on such a rapidly growing force in relatively short order? Without knowing any particulars, I'd say it's bloody likely.

And really, that's all the bracer said. It essentially used common sense. I was thinking that Parson was just trying to hedge his bets to see if he could weasel out of his deal with Charlie, not that he expected the info to be worth that much.

Parson's line (and especially his phrasing) to Charlie was more a way to deflate Charlie than it was confirming a "power" of the bracer.
DoctorJest
 
Posts: 309
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:57 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 13

Postby Binty » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:50 pm

People seem to be assuming that Wanda and Jake will be in the lead stack targetting the tower.

Imo this would be huge gamble even if the odds are just 10% of failure. Imo a 5% chance of would unacceptable. Wanda and Jake are too valuable to be on front-line at all - nevermind leading an attack against a known trap... (albeit one they underestimate). Burning the tower maybe a lower-risk tactic, but they should send Warlord lead stacks of Dwagons and Achrons against the tower - these are expendable. This should expose the Charlescomm units and allow Jake and Wanda to retreat.

However, given Wanda's apparent recklessness...
Binty
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 7:10 am

Re: Book 2 – Page 13

Postby Menas » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:48 pm

DoctorJest wrote:
Menas wrote:
Paracelsus wrote:Charlie likes a few things. Mostly, money, and secrets. And he wants Parson and his abilities.
So from that point of view, what would Charlescomm units allied with Faq, but not with the RCC2, be doing in a battlespace between GK and RCC2 forces?


When Charlie initially talked to Jillian he was freaking out because of the breach of security that had occurred due to the decryption of his units. His secrets are closely guarded, and he wants to keep them that way. It's going to be very hard to keep knowledge of his operations secret while Wanda has the ability to decrypt his Archons. This is one reason he wants to see Wanda dead ASAP.


We already know that the Archons don't know all that much about Charlie himself. Nothing they revealed seemed terribly damning. We also know that "full service" from Charlescomm allows a side to use Archons against other Charlescomm units. There is no way that could be possible if Archons were unable to discuss Charlescomm operations with their clients. This might be why he does, in fact, keep so much information from his own Archons (including none of them ever even having seen him), so that there is no way that they could ever reveal anything he doesn't want them to.


I'm not sure why you'd think Charlie wouldn't be concerned about the Archon's leaking what they know about his operation to another faction.

When Parson was interrogating (formal word for questioning, he wasn't torturing them or anything) the Archons, they revealed the following information:

- All kinds of Charlie's directives. They even knew them by line number.
- Charles' hidden agenda items (causing trouble for clients to make more business for himself).
- Composition and number of Charlie's forces, and what their special abilities are.
- How many cities Charles has, what type, what the defenses are.
- Where his capital city is located (they all came from there, they know where it is).
- Information about the special powers provided by the Arkendish.

This is INCREDIBLY sensitive information. It makes Charlie as vulnerable to attack as he can be, and risks alienating him from all of his current and potential clients.
Menas
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:49 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 13

Postby Paracelsus » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:07 pm

"Money. More money, more reach, more security, more information. Archons were expensive units, costing a minimum of two hundred Schmuckers per turn for the weakest. The strongest were closer to five hundred. Everything Charlie did seemed to be in support of growing a larger and larger fleet of Archons. Not one of them could remember him stating any kind of ideology or purpose beyond that."

I think we're overlooking the use Charlie apparently intends to put the money towards. Ever hear of the old school technique of the slow buildup and massive blitz once you have an overwhelming advantage in 4x4 games? Yeah. Like that. Charlie is his own side with his own agenda, and he likes to win. More importantly, he likes win-win scenarios. He's a player of the game, in the most literal sense, probably more so than Parson at the moment.
I'm just trying to imagine what the angle is with the secrecy. Technically, he might be able to do the same relay trick that GK uses to just yank the king out the hex, then use Jillians forces to smash Wandas invaders, retake the city next turn as part of the alliance, and re-establish Jetstone rule. Come out on top, smelling like roses, bloody GKs nose a little and maybe make them bring out Parson.

Or he's doing a feint and trying to get Parson. Or the actual goal is to do what Parson did to the siege engines and do a controlled series of strike and retreats to axe the leadership units, starting with either Wanda or Ansom. Jillian might be pissed, but Charlie looks out for Charlie. Killing Wanda would prove 'Toolism' is crap and be a large morale blow, not to mention cripple GK. Alternatively, capturing her would be the supremely best outcome outside of capturing Parson for Charlie. Stanley by himself as leader of GK would just end up in the same situation he was before, after all.

As for the goblins, I'd be worried about Charlie using them against GK in a surprise hit backed by Archons. Especially if its to kill Stanly while he's hunting dwagons out in the mountains.

Course, this is all conjecture. But I still feel most people sort of underestimate Charlie. Which is how he likes it. Low profile, just a mercenary, and all.
Paracelsus
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:18 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 13

Postby Menas » Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:52 am

Paracelsus wrote:"Money. More money, more reach, more security, more information. Archons were expensive units, costing a minimum of two hundred Schmuckers per turn for the weakest. The strongest were closer to five hundred. Everything Charlie did seemed to be in support of growing a larger and larger fleet of Archons. Not one of them could remember him stating any kind of ideology or purpose beyond that."


http://www.erfworld.com/page/24/

The paragraph you quoted is in there, but so are all the points I listed. Everything in your paragraph that Charlie wants is compromised by Wanda's existence. Attempting to capture her would be much more risky than outright croaking her.

We'll see what happens ;-).
Menas
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:49 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 13

Postby DoctorJest » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:55 am

Menas wrote:- Charles' hidden agenda items (causing trouble for clients to make more business for himself).


You act like that wasn't imminently transparent to start with.

Nothing revealed by the Archons was a huge surprise. They merely confirmed what any reasonable person already suspected about him. What MANY of us have suspected since he first showed up. I hardly think we're extra specially smart compared to people who have their lives on the line when they deal with him. Unless, again, we have readers who think they're considerably smarter than the people they're reading about. You really believe the other sides don't know how many cities Charlie has or where they're at? REALLY? Come on!

The Arkendish's thinkamancy powers are such a mystery that the other sides rely on it to contact him? Yeah, big secret there. He sure doesn't want THAT getting out...

The fact is, the "secrets" you listed that you believe Charlie would kill to protect might not really be secrets at all (and, again, don't really appear to be). "Things Parson Didn't Know", sure, but Parson doesn't know alot of other things that other Erfworlders take for granted. For example, the other Overlords/Kings might know that Charlescomm has one level 5 city. That might well be common knowledge (and there is no reason to presume it isn't). It's hardly revealing a secret to relay that. All the things you list as being "Secrets" don't strike me as things that would be complete mysteries to the rest of Erfworld. They're only news to Parson. The difference is, Parson is smart enough to use that information in other ways. But he could have likely gotten it from other sources.

None of what was revealed by the Archons was terribly surprising except that Charlie was a mystery even to his own forces. That suggests that whatever secrets he has that could be compromised, his Archons don't have them either. And THAT is what is interesting.

No, I don't think Charlie is concerned about Wanda/Parson finding out his secrets from his Archons because all the secrets he has worth protecting, his Archons don't know them either.
DoctorJest
 
Posts: 309
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:57 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 13

Postby Menas » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:56 pm

DoctorJest wrote:
Menas wrote:- Charles' hidden agenda items (causing trouble for clients to make more business for himself).


You act like that wasn't imminently transparent to start with.

Nothing revealed by the Archons was a huge surprise. They merely confirmed what any reasonable person already suspected about him. What MANY of us have suspected since he first showed up. I hardly think we're extra specially smart compared to people who have their lives on the line when they deal with him. Unless, again, we have readers who think they're considerably smarter than the people they're reading about. You really believe the other sides don't know how many cities Charlie has or where they're at? REALLY? Come on!

The Arkendish's thinkamancy powers are such a mystery that the other sides rely on it to contact him? Yeah, big secret there. He sure doesn't want THAT getting out...

The fact is, the "secrets" you listed that you believe Charlie would kill to protect might not really be secrets at all (and, again, don't really appear to be). "Things Parson Didn't Know", sure, but Parson doesn't know alot of other things that other Erfworlders take for granted. For example, the other Overlords/Kings might know that Charlescomm has one level 5 city. That might well be common knowledge (and there is no reason to presume it isn't). It's hardly revealing a secret to relay that. All the things you list as being "Secrets" don't strike me as things that would be complete mysteries to the rest of Erfworld. They're only news to Parson. The difference is, Parson is smart enough to use that information in other ways. But he could have likely gotten it from other sources.

None of what was revealed by the Archons was terribly surprising except that Charlie was a mystery even to his own forces. That suggests that whatever secrets he has that could be compromised, his Archons don't have them either. And THAT is what is interesting.

No, I don't think Charlie is concerned about Wanda/Parson finding out his secrets from his Archons because all the secrets he has worth protecting, his Archons don't know them either.


If you really believe this then you need to go back and re-read the update, and re-read what Charlie said when he first contacted Jillian. You appear to be arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.
Menas
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:49 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 13

Postby Gez » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:08 pm

Paracelsus wrote:Ever hear of the old school technique of the slow buildup and massive blitz once you have an overwhelming advantage in 4x4 games?

I'm not especially familiar with off-roads racing games, but they look surprisingly similar to 4X games when you put them this way.
User avatar
Gez
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:37 pm

Re: Book 2 – Page 13

Postby Ninjaguineapig » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:21 pm

DoctorJest wrote:
Menas wrote:- Charles' hidden agenda items (causing trouble for clients to make more business for himself).


You act like that wasn't imminently transparent to start with.

Nothing revealed by the Archons was a huge surprise. They merely confirmed what any reasonable person already suspected about him. What MANY of us have suspected since he first showed up. I hardly think we're extra specially smart compared to people who have their lives on the line when they deal with him. Unless, again, we have readers who think they're considerably smarter than the people they're reading about. You really believe the other sides don't know how many cities Charlie has or where they're at? REALLY? Come on!

The Arkendish's thinkamancy powers are such a mystery that the other sides rely on it to contact him? Yeah, big secret there. He sure doesn't want THAT getting out...

The fact is, the "secrets" you listed that you believe Charlie would kill to protect might not really be secrets at all (and, again, don't really appear to be). "Things Parson Didn't Know", sure, but Parson doesn't know alot of other things that other Erfworlders take for granted. For example, the other Overlords/Kings might know that Charlescomm has one level 5 city. That might well be common knowledge (and there is no reason to presume it isn't). It's hardly revealing a secret to relay that. All the things you list as being "Secrets" don't strike me as things that would be complete mysteries to the rest of Erfworld. They're only news to Parson. The difference is, Parson is smart enough to use that information in other ways. But he could have likely gotten it from other sources.

None of what was revealed by the Archons was terribly surprising except that Charlie was a mystery even to his own forces. That suggests that whatever secrets he has that could be compromised, his Archons don't have them either. And THAT is what is interesting.

No, I don't think Charlie is concerned about Wanda/Parson finding out his secrets from his Archons because all the secrets he has worth protecting, his Archons don't know them either.


There is one secret that Charlie definitely did not want getting out: Charlie's Rule #3: We are in the business of solving problems for our clients. Corollary: Creating problems for our clients creates business.

If Charlie's rep ever pulls itself back together and the Royals start hiring him again, Parson can make tis little tidbit of knowledge known and cripple Charlie's income. For a side with a lot of high-upkeep units like Charlescomm, even a few turns of unemployment could be disastrous. With 600 archons, even assuming that they all had upkeep of 200 shmuckers/turn, he loses 120,000 shmuckers/turn. He needs a lot of cash, and Parson can ruin it all.
Ninjaguineapig
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:02 pm

Previous

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests