The Battle for Gobwin Bump

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Re: The Battle for Gobwin Bump

Postby Doug » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:20 am

Prince Chevy tapped his map, tracing out troop movements with his fingers and seeing that they had their enemy in a vice. They thought they had been clever, breaking through the lines, but they had actually trapped themselves without chance of escape.

"From this position we can bring most, if not all of our major flying power to bear. Likewise the ground forces of Zamacommon, Jetstone, and NovaKing can be diverted from their current positions to help with the effort. I would hate to lose the bridge we're currently positioned on, but it would be a far greater blow to our enemy to lose such a valuable stack. I would highly recommend complete eradication for this stack and its commanders. At the very least I can join up with one of the larger stacks before striking and lend my leadership bonus to the assault."
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Re: The Battle for Gobwin Bump

Postby Sihoiba » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:22 am

Question:

LtDave Does the following apply to those dragons?

Note: in the Comic, Flying units may not be attacked by ground units in woods unless the ground unit is “Woods” capable. For the purposes of this game, all Scout units are considered to be “Woods” capable. Only Scouts and Characters may attack Flyers in Woods, unless Defender Flyers are stacked with Ground units, in which case they can be attacked by any unit.


If so what does that mean we can attack with? Surely flyers can attack flyers in woods and the above only applies to ground units in woods.

Also LtDave going from the Etna slaughter, the dragons being flying units don't get the terrain bonus on defence (otherwise that was another mistake and Etna gets to do some post mortem bonus damage to the dragons).

------

"I rather think we should hit them with the most powerful stack we can manage eh wot?"
Last edited by Sihoiba on Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Battle for Gobwin Bump

Postby The Black Hand » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:25 am

Confessor Delacroix nodded thoughtfully. "I, myself, have done some calculations based on the current disposition of forces at my current location."

Spoiler: show
Order of Battle:

3 Townado
1 Copperhead
4 Gwiffon Hammer
Commander Dagnabbit
Duke Kettwey
Confessor Delacroix

ATT: 133 (20-47)
DEF: 81 (12-28)
HITS: 101

Enemy stack:

ATT: 205 (31-72)
DEF: 119 (18-42)
HITS: 99

Assuming all Dwagons have full health.

If MCC attacks with current stack:

Best-case scenario

2 Dwagons croaked, 1 Dwagon with 7 Hits remaining
1 Townado croaked, 1 Townado with 2 Hits remaining

Worst-case scenario

1 Dwagon croaked, one Dwagon with 16 Hits remaining
All Townados croaked, Copperhead with 3 Hits remaining


"By the by, Graf, you may wish to adjust your calculations; I have the Copperhead ACU with me, not a Viper APU."
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Re: The Battle for Gobwin Bump

Postby Sihoiba » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:29 am

"A little error in your math there eh wot, you round down. So by my calculations:

Dwagon stack does 17-41 damage.*"

--------
*Unless they get terrain bonus at which point it becomes 26-62!
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Re: The Battle for Gobwin Bump

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:33 am

"Oh, please excuse me Confessor, I meant a Copperhead, with 10 attack."

"If Prince Chevy were to join the stack I proposed, then it would have 216 raw damage, or 32 worst case and 75 best case. This stack would result from grouping first at D14, which I believe we are all capable to reach, and leave one hex of move to engage the Dwagons."

====================

Or, if Prince Chevy joins in with all Royal Lancers, we get 191 raw damage. A testament to mixing our stacks carefully, lest we lose damage points.

====================

LtDave: please confirm whether Dwagons are all full health or not. They should NOT be, given that Etna managed 11 damage.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: The Battle for Gobwin Bump

Postby Sihoiba » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:08 pm

"I rather think I have a better plan of stacking, though it does rather require Graf being willing to forgo leading his Diwigables. This assumes all the units meet up at E13 before stacking up and hitting the dragons, which I think is a jolly good idea however we stack up.

Stack 1
1 Diwigable
3 Townados
1 Copperhead ACU
2 Gwiffon Hammers
Prince Chevy

78 attack, 113 hits, potential damage: 29 - 69

Stack 2
1 Diwigable
2 Gwiffon Hammers
4 Shadows
Confessor Delacroix

50 attack, 94 hits, potential damage: 16 - 38

Assuming the injured dragon is the last before that blagards Commanders:

Best Case Scenario
Attack 1: 3 dwagons dead, 1 with 3 hits, 1 with 7 hits. Diwigable with 34 hits left, no other units damaged.
Attack 2: last 2 dwagons dead, all commanders dead, 19 hits overkill lost. Diwigable with 44 hits left, no other units damaged.

Worst Case Scenario
Attack 1: 1 Dwagon dead, 2 uninjured, 2 with 7 hits. Diwigable with 10 hits left, no other units damaged.
Attack 2: 1 Dwagon dead, 1 uninured, 1 with 9 hits, 1 with 7 hits. Diwigable with 19 hits left, no other units damaged.

Now assuming the mathamancy is right, dividing the diwigiable up over the two stacks lowers the potential damage from 46-110 to 45-107, but ensuring we won't lose a unit seems like a rather fine trade off for a couple of hits on a dwagon, and even with both diwigable instead of one gwiffon hammer the first stack worst case doesn't kill any more dwagons, than with the above division of forces.

This is just a start, he chaps, but one I think that achieves the most for the minimal risk eh wot? And once we know what ground units can attack the dwagons at D14, we can plan the following waves, to finish things up if things don't go perfectly."

========
Note if the missing defence terrain bonus for flyers was an accident rather than intentional the above maybe moot, as the dwagons can then eat a diwigable.
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Re: The Battle for Gobwin Bump

Postby Azgrut » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:17 pm

My Golmon Archer stack should have moved to hex D10 by this turn. Since they are forest capable and all...

Anyway.

"Time to get in position! We shall take this forest hex and keep it. Lokarat and 4 Golmon knights move to D10

And I feel I need another commander for the army. I have asked the Kahn for my seccond in command. I think he has just arived. Hisgeng and his cavalry army."

Pop Hisgeng, warlord with 3 move, 5 attack, 2 defence, 4 hits (28 cost). 3 Golmon knights, 1 golmon archer.

Total cost, 100.

Can these units move this turn?
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Re: The Battle for Gobwin Bump

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:22 pm

Sihoiba wrote:"I rather think I have a better plan of stacking, though it does rather require Graf being willing to forgo leading his Diwigibles.


(That is a very reasonable request supported by the numbers)
=================

"Never! I did not come here only to back down at the first sign of real danger. I agree that splitting the Diwigibles gives us less casualties and is a plan we must pursue, but I will not be denied a part in this battle! I will join the second attack."
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Re: The Battle for Gobwin Bump

Postby The Black Hand » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:37 pm

The Confessor pursed his lips, thinking.

"A decent plan, Duke, but I concur with the Graf. He should be involved in at least one of the attacks. It makes sense tactically speaking, as his command bonus is greater than mine - not, perhaps, by much, but the extra points of damage his presence would grant us could mean the difference between obliterating these cursed beasts in one fell swoop and leaving some of them alive to escape and wreak havoc elsewhere."

=====

I suggest that the Graf be added to the second wave stack. Granted, the stack bonus drops to 1.6, but having a 1.3 command bonus as opposed to a 1.2 should make up for that.
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Re: The Battle for Gobwin Bump

Postby Sihoiba » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:59 pm

"I must admit I made a mistake, I rather thought you were level 3 confessor, I admit I was rather going on out pure attack numbers, which is why I had kept myself out of the stacks, still we can't deny you you're chance at glory Graf. Of course I was rather assuming we'd be planning follow up attacks to ensure the dwagons are dead, though they would be much more risky eh wot!"

So the original stack potential damage is corrected to:

15-35 so no real difference apart from a dwagon with one more hit.

if we add Graf to the second stack potential damage goes to 15-37.

So no reason you can't be in the second stack eh Graf! Though depending on NetherErf new commander, they might me a better in the stack than you Delacroix.

Now all we need is to find out which of our remaining jolly fine units can attack those Dwagons in that hex depending on how the woods work, and plan the follow up assaults to try and finish them off if worst comes to worst, eh wot! Of course worst comes to worst is hitting a stack with 36 defence (10-24 hits on the attackers)... still once we know what we're committing to the Dwagons better not forget to move the rest of the units."

----------

Again reminder we need to recalculate if the Dwagons gain terrain bonus.
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Re: The Battle for Gobwin Bump

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:55 pm

"I would offer one more suggestion. I think the Cumuwonimbuses are capable to reach hex D14 this turn, and they should do so. The Diwigibles will take a beating and may be left with less hits than a Cumuwonimbus, so they could use the protection after the battle."
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Re: The Battle for Gobwin Bump

Postby Sihoiba » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:43 pm

"Sadly they are at E10 with only two move cannot reach there, we could hide the Diwigibles behind stacks of other units perhaps?"
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Re: The Battle for Gobwin Bump

Postby turbler » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:57 pm

A New warlord for the Nether-Erf has popped. Introducing Flonne!
A couple more things
1: what's the combat formula?
2. My Shadows are off at our little camp, and where's the Manticowe I popped for the warlord who needs to fly?
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Re: The Battle for Gobwin Bump

Postby Sihoiba » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:34 pm

"Pleasure to meet you Flonne, rather hoped you'd send the Shadows over if we go with my plan."

--------------

The combat formula is on offence:

Hits = Total Combat Points X Stack Bonus (1.0 - 1.7 depending on # of units in stack) X Command Bonus (1.0 + 0.1 per command level) X Special Bonus (?) X Random Number (0.15 - 0.35 in discrete steps of 0.05)

The combat formula on defence

Hits = Total Combat Points X Stack Bonus (1.0 - 1.7 depending on # ofunits in stack) X Command Bonus (1.0 + 0.1 per command level) X Terrain Bonus (see page 1 of thread, doesn't apply to flyers?) X Special Bonus (?) X Ambush Bonus (1.0 no ambush, 2.0 ambush) X Random Number (0.15 - 0.35 in discrete steps of 0.05)
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Re: The Battle for Gobwin Bump

Postby LTDave » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:18 pm

Answers to Questions:

Dwagons are Flyers, and cannot be attacked in Woods except by Flyers and Scouts.

Flying units do not get terrain bonuses, unless stacked with ground units - in this case, the Commandews are mounted on the Dwagons, so count as Flying.
{BTB, Can anyone see anywhere in the Comic where Flyers and Ground units are stacked together? I don't think it happens ever}

Yes, the top Dwagon is wounded, and should be easy prey.
{I was counting on your Alliance not being able to organise the scouting this turn. D'Oh!}

Turbler - sorry, missed your change to the popping post. Your stack is 1 Commander, 1 Manticowe, 2 Shadows.
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Re: The Battle for Gobwin Bump

Postby The Black Hand » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:47 pm

LTDave wrote:Yes, the top Dwagon is wounded, and should be easy prey.
{I was counting on your Alliance not being able to organise the scouting this turn. D'Oh!}


*The Black Hand is sorely tempted to quote Sun-tzu right now . . .

>.> <.<
The strength of our future lies in our past.
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There is no instance of a nation benefiting from prolonged warfare.
-Sun-tzu, The Art of War
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Re: The Battle for Gobwin Bump

Postby Azgrut » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:52 pm

well, do it :P

LTDave. What about the golmon archers? They should be in my commanders hex now are they?
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Re: The Battle for Gobwin Bump

Postby The Black Hand » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:56 pm

Azgrut wrote:well, do it :P

LTDave. What about the golmon archers? They should be in my commanders hex now are they?


Okay, then, I will!

*The Black Hand clears his throat.

"The Art of War teaches us to rely not on the enemy's not coming, but on our own readiness to receive him; not on the enemy's not attacking, but rather on the fact that we have made our position unassailable."


--Sun-Tzu, The Art of War
The strength of our future lies in our past.
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There is no instance of a nation benefiting from prolonged warfare.
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Re: The Battle for Gobwin Bump

Postby Crovius » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:00 pm

"The Gwiffon Hammers will fearlessly charge in the first attack. I will personally lead the first stack. With a couple of fliers with decent hits we should be able to pummel them without lsoing a whoel stack. I advise trying our best to form up in stacks of 8. Maximize our raw power. We have a number of flying units with good Hits that can soak up damage for each stack. The sacrifice of those units will be well worth the chance to croak the enemy. And I plan to plant my axe firmly in the skull of one fo those Commanders. I need some new notches."

The Dwawven warlord rallies his Gwiffon aroudn him in a stack and awaits for the others to finish finalizing the plans.

"Duke, if I could borrow a few of your tougher units to help me in the charge. I'll not have it be said that we Dwawves go into a fight without some preperation."
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Re: The Battle for Gobwin Bump

Postby Sihoiba » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:44 pm

"Huzzah! That improves the worst case to 2 dwagons dead from the first attack, and still 1 dead from the second attack leaving 2 dwagons and less damage taken by the Diwigable in the second stack, and improves the best case to four dragons dead in the 1st attack, and less hits taken by the Diwigible in the second stack."

Duke Kettwey looks worried as each of the MCC commanders seems to be keen to lead the charge individually circumstances be damned.

"Dagnabbit old chap, I hate to say it but stacking as you intend to would actually worsen our chances to taking on the dragons, the gwiffon hammers are formidable, but we are stronger if we divide them up and adding you would bring less to the first of my suggested stacks as a 9th unit that we'd lose in stack bonus. I understand the desire to show those scaly blighters and Stanley's rats what for, but if we all chase after personal glory, there's a good chance the dwagons will survive and inflict unnecessary loses. Our strength as a coalition is working together, imagine what would happen if we hadn't have planned our scouting orders so well, dwagons behind our lines and any one of our forces vulnerable to attack. You're talking about avoiding losing a whole stack, I'm planning not to lose a single unit for possibly wiping out their entire force eh wot! I'd rather we all worked together, but if you plan to charge your gwiffon hammers straight into that full stack of dwagons I won't let you sacrifice my units to your glory charge!"

----

So does that mean NetherErf only has 2 shadows now? I'll need to change suggested the make up of stack 2 to accommodate this, replacing the shadows with Duke Kettwey and Flonne (note Flonne doesn't need a mount as she has enough move to fly).
Turbler want to roll for Flonne's level?

Ignoring the possibility that stack 2 might need tweaking, that leaves the following non-assigned flyers and scouts capable of hitting the dwagons in a third stack:

Duke Kettwey
2 Golman Archers (if Prince Lokarat is happy to change his orders)
1 Pssitacine
7 Airgun
1 Delver

Hits 22, Attack 14, all stacked together that's 3-8 hits it'll inflict. Which in a worst case scenario wouldn't even finish off a wounded dragon.

Alternatively assuming we replace the two lost Shadows with Kettwey and Flonne we could stick Lokarat on NetherErf Manticowe and have a stack of
2 Golman Archers
1 Delver
6 Airgun
1 Manticowe
Prince Lokarat

28 hits, Attack 18, all stacked together that's 5-11 still not enough to finish off a wounded dragon if worst comes to worst (2 less units as that marginally improves the worst case from 4 hits to 5 hits).

Either way facing a worst case of stack of 2 dwagons, and 3 commanders, 44 hits, 7-17, so likely losing at best a Delver, and worst, Delver, both Archers and all 6 of the Airguns.

Of course if the Archers moved to D10 following prior orders then we have to replace the 2 Archers with the Pssitacine, and the last air gun, while that doesn't change the damage potential, on the best case we lost 2 Airguns (or 1 Pssitacine and an Airgun) and on the worst case Delver, all 7 Airguns and the Pssitacine with Prince Lokarat on a Manticowe with only 1 hit left.

LT_Dave going on the Delver's location I take it the NetherErf commander popped in time to give the orders to the units in I14. Also I think the Gyroscopes position is wrong, as it appears to have scouted B12, C11, A10, it should have returned to C10, not still be at C12.

------------------

Just a general note, I realise I've basically offered a plan for the major battle so far and in doing so have potentially taken away the other players chance to have their own plans (At least when it comes to non flying non-commander unit. Thing I'd quite like the MCC to win this game, and our best chance is to share all our forces and maximise our strengths. I won't like the idea of throwing away this advantage we gained to everyone trying to do their own thing is not a pleasant one to me, so er please don't, but if you must I promise no hard feelings about it.

I still won't give forces to Crovius' suicide charge, I'll do the mathmancy and show how much worst the Dagnabbit + 4 gwiffon hammers + the best of the rest makes us if need be.
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