The Battle for Gobwin Bump: Book Two

by **Nihila** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:22 am

A third benefit of that plan is that it puts those units able to attack the Golmons if they're making straight for the city.

And if we want a warlord at the item, mine can reach it on his own move.

by **LTDave** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:24 am

BLANDCorporatio wrote:We should wait to see whether GB can pop units while our own are in the city hex. If no, it may make sense to push forward, en-force. I hope all's ok LtDave

Sorry, I've been AFK for a week or so. Back now.

Yes, the city can pop units while there are enemy units in the same hex.

by **Nihila** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:48 am

In that case, I would modify my recommendation to all units (except Mists) falling back to a hex behind the Mist screen, reinforcing the Mist screen heavily and constantly, and popping massive units as opposed to small ones, so that when we attack, we can actually croak some of their units as we take massive casualties.

Small infantry are all very well, but against a stack of Gowems, they might as well pack up until the last combats. I understand the inefficiency, the difficulty to reinforce, etc., but I am unconvinced that there is any other way to beat the Bump.

by **BLANDCorporatio** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:14 am

Nihila wrote:Small infantry are all very well, but against a stack of Gowems, they might as well pack up until the last combats. I understand the inefficiency, the difficulty to reinforce, etc., but I am unconvinced that there is any other way to beat the Bump.

There is. Well, there are, two.

One is to NOT fall back, but press on, regardless. IF you want big units, that's great, however precisely since they'll need quite some time to get to field, we are at a disadvantage. GB pops large units and they are already where needed. Falling back, building up- GB does the same, and will be no easier to take in a few turns when they have even more Gowems dealing even more retaliatory damage.

Two is Minotaurs and/or Wion Hunters. Minotaurs are carriable, easy to mass, and good (but not optimal) attack-wise. Wion Hunters are attack optimal for their hit point count, tough and carriable.

Okey guys we have our answer. Here's what I suggest.

1) We vote on whether to press on to GB. Just in case anyone is asking, my vote is YES.

Spoiler: show

2) We do some basic Mist rearrangements. There's some hexes we need to send Mists to, that are near our base. Kettwey can bellow an order via Megaphone to a Mist, and have it relay the order as it moves. Relaying orders to stray troops (Field Gun, Ewephant, Blunderbuss) is also a must, but easy. The orders are, get to C5

3) Still waiting on Sihoiba's plan, but in principle it will be about sending Kettwey's stack, with a few Mists aboard, to the location of the item and once there, unload the Mists and spread them in nearby unexplored hexes.

4) Daimyo of Risun, along with some Heavy Aimursas, a Dwaconian and some Kanites, may also go to the location of the item. Maybe some other small infantry would spread out in a few nearby hexes, to allow us to see what's there without needing to scout.

So far, following the above, we establish a good presence at the item (and nearby road), while also having deep Mist cover for our own base.

Hopefully we would also have voted for attack, in which case things will be interesting.

by **BLANDCorporatio** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:11 am

Oh yes, since it's been a long and eventful time, the unit reference:

Spoiler: show

Code: Select all: Gobwin Bump units Ground Infantry Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special ================================================================================================== Garrison Twoll 14 4 5 0.5 Gobwin 3 4 3 2 Field Twoll 15 5 5 2 Gowem 30 30 5 1 Ground Archers Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special ================================================================================================== Gobwin Archer 3 4 3 2 Ranged Golmon Knight 5 8 5 4 Ranged Flying Infantry Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special ================================================================================================== Golmon Battle Hawk 1 1 1 5 Ranged, Scout Wessew Dwagon 10 15 5 5 Gweat Dwagon 30 5 5 5 Ranged Fliers Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special ================================================================================================== Fire Dwagon 7 11 0 5 Ranged Commanders Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special ================================================================================================== Prince Lokarat 4 5 1 4 Ranged, Lv6 Twevow 3 4 3 2 Lv2, Croaked Wobin 3 4 3 2 Lv1 Wussel 3 4 3 2 Lv2, Croaked Wayne 3 4 3 2 Lv2 Gowdon 3 4 3 2 Lv4, Croaked MCC Units Scouts Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special Side ========================================================================================================================= Bweeze 1 1 0 5 Ranged, Scout Weather Toffs Gyro Scope 1 1 0 5 Scout Steam Gentlemen Spoiler 1 1 1 2 Scout Kingdom of Meh Viper APU 4 4 2 5 Ranged, Scout Kanite Legion Light Aimursa 3 2 2 4 Scout Empire of Risun Ground Infantry Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special Side ========================================================================================================================= Demonolith 30 45 5 1 Nether-Erf Elephant 30 45 5 1 Kingdom of Nawnia Garrison Minotaur 15 20 5 0.5 Kingdom of Nawnia Minotaur 15 20 5 1 Kingdom of Nawnia Mist 1 1 0 2 Weather Toffs Rolling Scorpion 10 15 5 3 Steam Gentlemen Axe Dwarf 5 4 1 2 Bugger'al Dwarf Champion 7 9 2 2 Bugger'al Mehian Spearman 4 4 4 2 Kingdom of Meh Nerb Ranger 10 12 3 2 Kingdom of Meh Dwagonknight 3 5 2 1 Dwacon Dwaconian 30 15 5 3 Dwacon Kanite Militant 2 2 2 2 Kanite Legion Heavy Aimursa 5 7 2 4 Empire of Risun Ground Archers Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special Side ========================================================================================================================= Huwwicance 30 45 5 1 Ranged Weather Toffs Wion Hunter 5 8 5 2 Ranged Steam Gentlemen Twain 30 1 1 4 Ranged Steam Gentlemen Hammer Dwarf 4 3 1 2 Ranged Bugger'al Dwarven Siege Tank 25 30 5 1 Ranged (Siege) Bugger'al Mehian Crossbower 3 5 3 2 Ranged Kingdom of Meh Kanite Rocketman 6 4 4 2 Ranged Kanite Legion Fussilier 5 5 5 1 Ranged Commonwealth of Escotia Skirmisher 5 5 5 2 Ranged Commonwealth of Escotia Field Gun 30 45 5 2 Ranged Commonwealth of Escotia Flying Infantry Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special Side ========================================================================================================================= Ranged Fliers Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special Side ========================================================================================================================= Shower 3 3 0 5 Ranged Weather Toffs Steam Fly 30 1 1 5 Ranged Steam Gentlemen Copperhead ACU 10 15 5 5 Ranged Kanite Legion Commanders Name Hits Attack Defense Move Special Side ========================================================================================================================= Peter 6 9 5 1 Lv3(1) Kingdom of Nawnia Edmund 6 9 5 1 Lv3(3) Kingdom of Nawnia Duke Kettwey 6 4 0 5 Ranged, Lv4 Weather Toffs General Dagnabbit 6 5 3 2 Lv3(2) Bugger'al Bob the Guy 5 8 5 2 Lv4(1) Kingdom of Meh Lord Dwakvir 3 5 2 1 Lv3(2) Dwacon Confessor Marcion Delacroix 6 9 5 2 Lv3(1) Kanite Legion Daimyo Gejagny 6 9 4 4 Lv3(1) Empire of Risun Flonne 6 9 5 2 Lv2(1) Nether-Erf Capt. Alistair Dixon 5 1 5 1 Lv? Commonwealth of Escotia Graf Zeppellin 5 8 5 2 Ranged, Lv4(2), Steam Gentlemen Chief Warlord

Now let's see.

Spoiler: show

This of course does not include one obvious fact- the enemy MUST attack or retreat on their turn. Garrison Twolls cannot retreat, and no GB unit will, anyway. I'm banking on that. I'm thinking of "smuggling" in some weaker infantry on the backs of our heavies, to stack-spam after combat is done.

Broadly, the plan I'm considering goes like this:

Zep, together with a minimum escort to ensure survival, attacks one of the 6GTwoll, 2Gowem stacks (since they have low attack sum and no leader). Said escort, probably, the Dwaconian.

Attack the Commandew stack with a wave of units designed to ensure a Twoll is croaked. Said units, probably, the 4 Demonowiths. This also brings the retaliation damage of the Commandew stack to half, making it safe(r) for

(after a few suicide attacks directed at the other GB stacks)

a second attack, this time led, against the Commandew stack, with almost all of our remaining Heavies, followed by

(after some more suicide attacks)

a third attack against the Commandew stack- or the stack that Zep attacked originally- with a Heavy meat shield and lotsa small(er) units, also the other commanders too. The Dwarf Champions will shine, but the point is to bring Mehians and Kanites in to GB.

Defensive planning: stack heavies and commanders together (or, in two stacks), small units stacked individually. We want our strong stacks attacked and retaliating, but not too many times.

by **Nihila** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:42 am

I will also vote YES.

However, if the end decision is to press on, I would urge to not divert any units to the item, and instead make the attack en masse.

by **WaterMonkey314** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:44 pm

Is there not an option to siege the city, Lt_Dave?

I'm beginning to think it may be well-nigh unlikely to win the war - it may all go down to lucky rolls, which is deeply unsatisfying. Why? Some simple before/after analysis:

At the beginning of this turn (referred to henceforth as turn X since I don't know its number), we observed 20 Garrison Trolls, 10 Gowems, and 1 warlord at the Bump.

At the end of last turn (referred to as turn W), there were 18 Garrison Trolls, 6 Gowems, and 1 commander at the Bump, with no known units left in the field.

This gives us a difference of 2 Garrison Trolls @ 6 pop pts each and 4 Gowems @ 33 pts each - a total of 144 pop pts of reinforcements for the Bump on turn X. We, on the other hand, got a wonderful 140 pts for the same turn.

I haven't checked the other turns (this kind of analysis may only even be possible for the late ones), but if this trend is consistent, there aren't many ways for us to win. Not only does the Bump get the same amount of pop points as us, it has no need to maintain a supply line and can pop heavy units with low move quite cheaply. In fact, we're quite lucky that Gobwin Bump hasn't decided to pop garrison heavies! Imagine if we had to fight 30 hit, 45 atk, 5 def, .5 move units that cost just 20 pts each!

by **Nihila** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:13 pm

What we need is a very effective cost-attack ratio unit.

If the 3/2's attack/hits ratio rounds up (which I think it does), now presenting the:

Peasant Worker
Hits: 1
Attack: 2
Defense: 1
Move: 1
Cost: 2
Absolutely no armor. Some of these people are carrying rakes, for crying out loud!

But they can be transported in huge numbers, even if they are just sent off to die.

And I realized after posting that I could lower the cost more if I cut the move, which has no real effect, takes 2 turns from C5 either way.

by **BLANDCorporatio** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:26 pm

The peasant is an interesting idea that I'll have to consider soon. Coupled with the Twains, we could bring forth a meat grinder.

However before we go all Great War on Gobwin Bump, something irt. Watermonkey314: your fears are mine, and they are why I push for attack.

So far, our units near the Bump are superior. Not numerically (as far as heavies go), but in terms of offense, definitely. Gowems are strong, but weaker than Ewephants or Demonowiths, and Twolls are puny on offense by any standard.

This advantage however is extremely fragile and will not last, unless we keep efficient pressure on the Bump. In the attack phase, I expect that we'll incur little casualties among our heavies, while not doing much to the enemy either. However, we'll have planted our units in their hex. They then MUST attack us, and forfeit the defense bonus from the city. I think this will prove, in the end, advantageous to us: either GB attacks just our spam stacks, or they throw an attack or two against our heavies, which will cost them.

Change in my suggested plans: I think we should send our heavies in several waves, all against a stack made of 6GTwolls and 2Gowems (suicide attacks from small units necessary, to allow us to attack the same stack multiple times). The relatively small attack sum those stacks possess, as well as the fact that they are unled, will lead to minimal (as in, no) casualties on our side while we plant ourselves inside the city.

PS:

This bears repeating. Our units are superior in terms of offense, but only just. I count 388 raw attack sum for all of GB's B3 hex, whereas raw attack sum is 460 for our heavies (no other units counted).

I heard somewhere that a military rule of thumb goes "attacker needs about 3 times the (fire-)power of the defender for a safe/sane attack". We're not there, not even close, but the worse news is, things seem poised to get even more hopeless if we wait.

by **Twoy** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:45 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:They then MUST attack us, and forfeit the defense bonus from the city.

This is where the advantage for us is. We will do about three times the damage defending than we do attacking.

I vote attack.

by **Nihila** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:08 pm

BLAND, the Emperor is pleased with your interest.

I added one point to the Defense, 'cuz I can.

by **WaterMonkey314** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:28 pm

Capt. Dixon sent a brief Thinkagram to the Chief Warlord: "I move that we press forward."

Also, I'll create that new unit if we need to using my open unit slot.

by **Nihila** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:50 am

WaterMonkey, I have an open slot even with the new unit. Not that it matters, though. As long as you give it an interesting name, you can take it. Given your British army theme, may I suggest we introduce the Recession Conscript?

by **BLANDCorporatio** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:14 am

Don't create two peasant-type units though. For now lets postpone any more unit creation a lil' bit.

Ok, I'll be waiting for any news from Crovius, Sihoiba and The Black Hand, mostly because I'll be AFK for a few hours soon, and will not find it possible to do all the many kamikaze attacks that our invasion requires.

One question however- Nihila: what do you say about having the Risun troops going for the item, along Kettwey's stack? Kettwey and co. will not be a useful presence at GB in any case, and that item may prove useful. Some more escort in an attempt to retrieve it will not hurt much, also seeing as how Aimursas are not small enough to throw off on suicide charges but not so big so as to be a decisive impact in a siege.

by **Nihila** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:23 am

WaterMonkey and I were thinking of having Escotia have the peasant unit.

"I'm okay with fetching the item. Would all the Risun units accompany me on that? We could use some scouting in that direction."

by **The Black Hand** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:36 am

Confessor Delacroix's answer was simple:

"Let's do it."

by **BLANDCorporatio** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:14 am

Well, the tide of opinion sways for attack, ok. Still, there's one more thing I'd like us to do first, which is to plop some Mists in the unexplored hexes near the item of interest.

Sihoiba, you mentioned you may have a plan regarding that?

I'll start moving things myself this evening unless otherwise noted:

- stray units concentrated/brought forth (Ewephant, Field Gun, Blunderbuss) or back (Twain);
- Mist wall updated near our base, some Mists loaded to Kettwey's stack;
- next, Risun and Kettwey's stack will go to the item, and once there deploy some expendable units that will fan-out in neighbouring hexes. Some of which unexplored. Will need replies from LtDave.

After said replies, we make our marh to GB, then stack defensively. Some more expunit fanout will also follow.

by **Sihoiba** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:31 pm

I'll work something out a bit later, had a very busy week unfortunately.

by **Sihoiba** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:28 pm

"I jolly well vote we press forward as well"

-------

Also I'm finding a lack of a decent unit location reference is making the planning really hard, WaterMonkey's graphic is good, but doesn't match with Lt_Dave's at all, and is a bit too cluttered to know what units are where when there are multiple units in a hex.

I'm going to basically work my way backwards through the thread until I can verify what orders mists have been given, and which of the key units are where (Kettewey and the flying stack, all the mist locations, the copperheads and the twains)

by **Sihoiba** » Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:30 pm

So by my understanding and going through the thread starting unit locations for mist and Kettwey's flying stack are as follows:

A9: Mist x1
A8: Mist x1
B9: Mist x1
B10: Mist x11
C9: Mist x1
D10: Mist x1
D9: Mist x2
D8: Mist x1
C8: Kettwey, Copperhead x2, Viper ACU x1, Gyroscope x1, SteamFly x1, 2x Fussiliers mounted on Steam Fly

Orders are then as follows:
Mist x1 D9 -> E8 Shouted by Megaphone - has 1 move remaining
Mist x1 D9 -> E9 Shouted by Megaphone - has 1 move remaining
Mist x1 C9 -> E10 Shouted by Megaphone
Mist x1 B10 -> D9 - has 1 move remaining
Mist x1 B9 -> A9 relay orders -> A8 relay orders Shouted by Megaphone
Mist x1 A9 -> B8 on relayed orders, do not stack up with other mist, relay orders
Mist x1 A8 -> C7 on relayed orders
Mist x10 B10 mount Twain.
Twain B10 ->C6 unload Mists -> C5
Kettwey's stack C8 -> C6 Mists mount Copperheads -> E5 1 move remaining.
Mist x1 E5 -> F6
If F6 clear Mist x1 E5 -> F5
If F5 clear Mist x1 E5 -> E4

If F6, F5 and E4 clear:
Mist x1 E5 ->F6 form separate stack
Mist x1 E5 ->F5 form separate stack
Mist x1 E5 ->E4 form separate stack
Mists x2 E5-> D5 form separate stacks
Mists x2 E5-> D6 form separate stacks

If any of F6, F5, E4 not clear then I'll work out separate orders to move Kettwey back to D6 and relocate the mists. Chances are that will involve Mist with 2 move at B8 relocating to C6 hence earlier relaying of orders

I don't see the need for mists at A10 and C10, I'd rather have a bigger shield around Kettwey, I've tried to make the walls we're defending 2 mist thick generally, the extra mist at B8 is incase of flyers travelling over mountain attacks.

The Battle for Gobwin Bump: Book Two

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