The Battle for {Insert Name Here}

[Twoy]

Edit: And, er, did you want the Thunder Lizard Stack at B1 or B2? B1 is non-adjacent to C2, so given that there was some confusion in the Thunder Cat stack's orders, I just want to make sure.

Thanks. B2. I changed it in the post above. I will give you a complete wrap up in one post of all movements and current disposition of all forces in about 12-20 hours. Then I will end turn.

I have a question about pop points. Can you tell me how many pop points we can expect, and how many pop points you will be getting? I know we might not normally know how many pop points you would get, but since this is a test...

[Nihila]

Thanks. B2. I changed it in the post above. I will give you a complete wrap up in one post of all movements and current disposition of all forces in about 12-20 hours. Then I will end turn.

I have a question about pop points. Can you tell me how many pop points we can expect, and how many pop points you will be getting? I know we might not normally know how many pop points you would get, but since this is a test...

Okay, thanks for the fix. Also, at the end of my turns, I'll post a summary of what happened, and, if possible, the current disposition of my stacks.

And the pop points will be determined after I see how much I've croaked on my turn. Probably around 200, though if casualties are particularly high, this number could rise. Generally, I'll try to croak as many of your units as I can, screw my own casualties, though with some obvious caveats--I'll try to croak scouts even if I could croak even more normal units, I'll go for the Chief Warlord rather than normal Warlords, etc.

[Siralus]

Thundermen,
What I would recommend is that you form a slow stack and a very slow stack.

Thunder Infantry x 1, Thunder Lizard x 2, Thunder Infantry x 4, CDR Thunder, Thunder Infantry x 1: Attack-156.6, Def-4.33.>>A1>B2.
Thunder Infantry x 3, Thunder Cats x 4, CDR Lighting, Thunder Infantry x 1: Attack-106.2, Def-4.55.>>A1>B1>C2.

Your command becomes Thunder's wish, mi'lord. All forces, advance in order as directed!

Mind me asking why there's 3 seperate listings of thunder infantry in one stack though?

[Twoy]

The unit's are listed from left to right in the order they are from front to back in the stack.

The first infantry is cannon fodder, because your stack has one infantry more than they need. The next four infantry are the one's who are supporting the thunder lizard. The final infantry is the ninth unit in the stack. His attacked does not get added to the stack's total attack value.

[Twoy]

OFFICIAL ORDERS

Nawnia:
Faun Archers x 7, Queen Susan: Attack-117, Def-3.25. >> A1>B2>C2>D3.
Griffon Rider 2-4, Griffon Rider 1 (-1 Hit), Queen Lucy: Attack-102, Def-5. A1>B2>C2>D3>D4 (Combat)>D3.

Avewnus:
Bezekiwa x 8, Bezekiwa Commander Agrach: Attack-115.2, Def-5.>> A1>B2>C2.
Hellflame Dwakes x 8, Dwake Commander Vis: Attack-129.6, Def-4.>> A1>B1>C1>D2>D3.
5 Imps: Attack-7.5, Def-1. >>A1>B2>C2.

Generica:
Ogre x 1, Guardsman x 6, CPT-GEN Genericus: Attack-167.4, Def-5. >>A1>B2>C2.
Ogre x 1, Guardsman x 5, Outriders x 2: Attack-153, Def-5. >>A1>B2>C2.

Thundermen:
Thunder Infantry x 1, Thunder Lizard x 2, Thunder Infantry x 4, CDR Thunder, Thunder Infantry x 1: Attack-156.6, Def-4.33.>>A1>B2.
Thunder Infantry x 3, Thunder Cats x 4, CDR Lighting, Thunder Infantry x 1: Attack-106.2, Def-4.55.>>A1>B1>C2.
Current Locations:
A1:
Archer x 1: Attack-9, Def-5.

B2:
Thunder Infantry x 1, Thunder Lizard x 2, Thunder Infantry x 4, CDR Thunder, Thunder Infantry x 1: Attack-156.6, Def-4.33.

C2:
Bezekiwa x 8, Bezekiwa Commander Agrach: Attack-115.2, Def-5.
5 Imps: Attack-7.5, Def-1.
Ogre x 1, Guardsman x 6, CPT-GEN Genericus: Attack-167.4, Def-5.
Ogre x 1, Guardsman x 5, Outriders x 2: Attack-153, Def-5.
Thunder Infantry x 3, Thunder Cats x 4, CDR Lighting, Thunder Infantry x 1: Attack-106.2, Def-4.55.

D3:
Faun Archers x 7, Queen Susan: Attack-117, Def-3.25.
Griffon Rider 2-4, Griffon Rider 1 (-1 Hit), Queen Lucy: Attack-102, Def-5.
Hellflame Dwakes x 8, Dwake Commander Vis: Attack-129.6, Def-4.

END TURN

[Nihila]

Ah, I'll post my turn then.
Fer-Durrrrp!!!
7 Decrypted Sourmanders and 1 Decrypted Archery Warlord ("Laqueus") enter hex D3 and engage Queen Susan's stack of 7 Faun Archers and Queen Susan.

COMBAT!
Battle is joined in hex: D3
TIME OF POST (in minutes and seconds): 5420
Attacker:
Total Attack Value: 112
Level of Highest Commander: 1
Total Defence of Stack: 35
Number of Units: 8
Average Defence: 4
Terrain Bonus of Hex: 0.0
Special Bonus: 1.0
Random Percentage: 70%
Total Damage: 86

Hits Inflicted on the Enemy: 51

Defender
Total Attack Value: 117
Number of Units: 8
Level of Highest Commander: 6
Total Defence of Stack: 26
Number of Units: 8
Average Defence: 3
Terrain Bonus of Hex: 0.0
Special Bonus: 1.0
Ambush Bonus: 1.0
Random Percentage: 90%
Total Damage: 168

Hits Inflicted on the Enemy: 76

Don't bother choosing your casualties, both stacks are annihilated.

[Nihila]

6 Dwagons and 1 Decrypted Warlord (Lv. 4, Chief Warlord, "Scalpel") engage Queen Lucy's stack of 4 Griffon Riders and Queen Lucy.

COMBAT!
Battle is joined in hex: D3
TIME OF POST (in minutes and seconds): 5740
Attacker:
Total Attack Value: 173
Level of Highest Commander: 5
Total Defence of Stack: 44
Number of Units: 9
Average Defence: 5
Terrain Bonus of Hex: 0.0
Special Bonus: 1.0
Random Percentage: 80%
Total Damage: 208

Hits Inflicted on the Enemy: 78

Defender
Total Attack Value: 102
Number of Units: 5
Level of Highest Commander: 2
Total Defence of Stack: 25
Number of Units: 5
Average Defence: 5
Terrain Bonus of Hex: 0.0
Special Bonus: 1.0
Ambush Bonus: 1.0
Random Percentage: 80%
Total Damage: 98

Hits Inflicted on the Enemy: 38

Queen Lucy's stack annihilated, 1 or 2 Dwagons croaked, Scalpel either dusted or not dusted, one Dwagon at 10 HP.

Remaining Gobwin Knob units are seen moving to the south.

[Nihila]

And I'll post this, for flavor more than anything else.
1 Dwagon enters C2, engages Imps.

COMBAT!
Battle is joined in hex: D3
TIME OF POST (in minutes and seconds): 322
Attacker:
Total Attack Value: 17
Level of Highest Commander: 0
Total Defence of Stack: 5
Number of Units: 1
Average Defence: 5
Terrain Bonus of Hex: 0.0
Special Bonus: 1.0
Random Percentage: 75%
Total Damage: 13

Hits Inflicted on the Enemy: 11

Imps annihilated in a ranged attack, Dwagon seen moving southward.

Fer-Durrrrp!!!
Edited in: Gobwin Knob turn summary: Sourmanders and Fauns play Mutually Assured Destruction, Dwagons and Griffon Riders duke it out at range in the skies, a Dwagon has an Imp barbecue.
Alliance has 200 pop points to work with, Gobwin Knob has an identical number.

[Crovius]

Oh wow, in a single turn all of Nawnia's forces are wiped out... damn! More attacks liek that and the alliance is going to get trounced.

[Nihila]

Oh wow, in a single turn all of Nawnia's forces are wiped out... damn! More attacks liek that and the alliance is going to get trounced.

Look at what I lost. My Sourmander stack, the Dwagon I sent off to raid, another Dwagon, possibly 2, 3 Warlords, 6 Infantry, and they have a pretty good idea of where most of my troops are. I'm going to get hit hard on their turn, 'specially since they'll hit me wherever they can, with insane determination. I won't be able to pull this off again for at least 3 turns.

[Crovius]

Ah, good point. I suppose I'm thinking of it from a purely RP POV. To Gobwin knob, their losses are numbers, replaceable. But to Nawnia, losing two commanders is a painful thing on an emotional level.

[zilfallon]

Nihila, a question:

When the enemy attack's us, don't we get to retaliate? You know, in the comic, book 1, dwagons get pinched a bit by spearmen when Parson does hit-and-run to siege-column, by non-siege units. But here, it seems our units just had a pop corn and enjoyed the show while the imps and Queen's stack got croaked.

So, going by this, if my dwakes(for example) hit a stack, spending like only 2 move or such, will be able to pull back safely if they manage to beat the stack they targeted, even if the hex has billions of decrypted?

[Nihila]

Nihila, a question:

When the enemy attack's us, don't we get to retaliate? You know, in the comic, book 1, dwagons get pinched a bit by spearmen when Parson does hit-and-run to siege-column, by non-siege units. But here, it seems our units just had a pop corn and enjoyed the show while the imps and Queen's stack got croaked.

So, going by this, if my dwakes(for example) hit a stack, spending like only 2 move or such, will be able to pull back safely if they manage to beat the stack they targeted, even if the hex has billions of decrypted?

Ah, I'll take this to an extreme. Vis et al. reach my base camp, finding it to have 100,000 stacks of 8 Decrypted Infantry. Your Drakes hit one stack (only 99,999 left!), pull out, and the rest just stand there. WARNING!!! PAY ATTENTION!!! RULE CHANGE HERE!!!
Not entirely comic accurate, but to fix this, I'll say that led fliers and ranged units can attack non-ranged units, but receive retaliation from all ranged stacks, which do not have their Special bonus reduced.

Edit: This is what Parson did, and what happened with the Siege. My ranged units attacked either the ranged stacks in a hex at range, preventing melee intervention, or there were no ranged stacks in the hex, so they croaked melee stacks at range, preventing melee intervention.

[zilfallon]

Nihila, a question:

When the enemy attack's us, don't we get to retaliate? You know, in the comic, book 1, dwagons get pinched a bit by spearmen when Parson does hit-and-run to siege-column, by non-siege units. But here, it seems our units just had a pop corn and enjoyed the show while the imps and Queen's stack got croaked.

So, going by this, if my dwakes(for example) hit a stack, spending like only 2 move or such, will be able to pull back safely if they manage to beat the stack they targeted, even if the hex has billions of decrypted?

Ah, I'll take this to an extreme. Vis et al. reach my base camp, finding it to have 100,000 stacks of 8 Decrypted Infantry. Your Drakes hit one stack (only 99,999 left!), pull out, and the rest just stand there. WARNING!!! PAY ATTENTION!!! RULE CHANGE HERE!!!
Not entirely comic accurate, but to fix this, I'll say that fliers and ranged units can attack non-ranged units, but receive retaliation from all ranged stacks, which do not have their Special bonus reduced.

So, why doesn't the situation here is unchanged? I understand that a dwagon croaked imps and flew back, because there were no ranged at C2 (how unstrategic, i noticed it now, /fail ) Although we do not know if fliers can retaliate to enemy ground forces attacking allied ground forces in same hex, but combat isn't over in a mere second. So if they CANT help the ground-ground fight, it means that they are just watching a show.
We know that fliers can't engage ground-units off-turn in a cities airspace, but cities are well, complicated, in this manner. So we don't know if it is same in non-city hexes too.

But what about D3?

Faun Archers x 7, Queen Susan: Attack-117, Def-3.25.
Griffon Rider 2-4, Griffon Rider 1 (-1 Hit), Queen Lucy: Attack-102, Def-5.
Hellflame Dwakes x 8, Dwake Commander Vis: Attack-129.6, Def-4.

Only ground stack is Queen Susan. If you say that fliers can't protect non-fliers, i'd accept it (not so willingly, though) but how the boop can dwagons engage 1 stack of fliers without getting any retaliation from the other stack? As I wrote above, combat doesn't happen in a mere second. When someone charges at the friend right NEXT TO you, you should be able to do something, at least before the attacker LEAVES.

Also,

I'll say that fliers and ranged units can attack non-ranged units, but receive retaliation from all ranged stacks

We know that non-ranged GROUND units CAN NOT target fliers. But we also know that they can retaliate WHEN a ground stack in their hex is attacked by fliers. Think of it as a common-sense: Dwagons need to get low to bite an infantry's head, and because of this opportunity, other ground units get to stab/slash/bash/whatever the dwagon.

[Nihila]

Only ground stack is Queen Susan. If you say that fliers can't protect non-fliers, i'd accept it (not so willingly, though) but how the boop can dwagons engage 1 stack of fliers without getting any retaliation from the other stack? Combat doesn't happen in a mere second. When someone charges at the friend right NEXT TO you, you should be able to do something, at least before the attacker LEAVES.

Well, it's not really a charge, the Dwagons breathed random elements at the Griffons, the Sourmanders spat at the Fauns, the Fauns and Griffons fired back, it was all over before the Dwakes could get into combat range. The Dwagons retreated out of the hex fast enough to avoid engagement with the other fliers.

Also, it makes the Mathamancy easier to only deal with one stack at a time, I'm not running a calculus class here, I'm not going to ask you where in a hex your units are, I'm not going to have a "movement speed inside a hex" variable, I'm not going to run differential equations to figure out whether you catch my Dwagons. You just don't.

By the same token, when you get to my base camp, you can hit and run remaining stacks after getting rid of the Archery as much as you want.

[zilfallon]

So...moving as 1 strong column is a stupid idea, because it doesn't matter at all if we are together or seperate. And breath weapons count as ranged?? Their breath affect only a few meters.
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(A thinkagram is sent to all commanders, by Commander Agrach:)

-Hmm, most interesting. I really expected those imp scouts to be hunted down without much trouble, but what I did NOT expect was the Chief Warlord AND her air commander getting croaked in such a short time that our dwakes couldn't even flap! So, dear "alliance", this is the result of forming one, "tough" column. We suggest that each of us is seperate, and proceed swiftly, before Gobwin Knob can recover. But this will also mean that we won't be waiting for Nawnia. So, should we await reinforcements? Or march?
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Edit: A thought, Nihila. Let's say that I have 1 stack of fliers, 1 stack of archers, 1 stack of infantry in a hex.

Which stack will retaliate if...

1-If my fliers are attacked by fliers
2-If my infantry are attacked by fliers,
3-If my archers are attacked by fliers,
4-If my fliers are attacked by archers,
5-If my archers are attacked by archers,
6-If my infantry are attacked by archers?

I'd be glad if you answer those questions, so we all can understand the game mechanics better, and have a chance of building a properly defended column.

[Nihila]

1-If my fliers are attacked by fliers, will my fliers and archers retaliate?Your archers and fliers will deal damage to my fliers.
2-If my infantry are attacked by fliers, will my fliers and archers retaliate?Your archers and infantry will deal damage to my fliers.
3-If my archers are attacked by fliers, will they, infantry, and the fliers retaliate?Your archers will deal damage to my fliers.
4-If my fliers are attacked by archers, they just stand still until nothing is left?Your fliers will deal damage to my archers.
5-If my archers or infantry are attacked by archers, who will retaliate?Whoever is attacked.

Red text is me.

So...moving as 1 strong column is a stupid idea, because it doesn't matter at all if we are together or seperate. And breath weapons count as ranged?? Their breath affect only a few meters.

Well, I needed flying archery to balance my force out, and Dwagons seemed the best fit. Their breath weapons are longer ranged than melee. Good enough for me.

We suggest that each of us is seperate, and proceed swiftly, before Gobwin Knob can recover. But this will also mean that we won't be waiting for Nawnia. So, should we await reinforcements? Or march?

As the Risunese Emperor would have said, "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts."

Just throwing some proverbs around for my own personal amusement.

I'd be glad if you answer those questions, so we all can understand the game mechanics better, and have a chance of building a properly defended column.

Your column is very strong, actually. If I even have an air force at the start of my next turn, it'll be on the run. I lost... about 410 points on just my turn, and will probably lose 100 more once you hunt the lone Dwagon down. You can make pretty good move estimates and scout that area out with the Outriders. So call it 510. Then there's the 90 points in Infantry that your Thunder Bats killed off... 600.

You've lost 494 points from Nawnia, 88 points from Thundermen, and 70 points from Avewnus. That's... what, 652 points? And you guys started with 800 more points than me? So you're still up by 748? Somehow, I'm still confident that I'll lose this game. I consider that good, I'm not GM'ing to win, just to make you guys think.

[zilfallon]

according to your answers, a column is meaningless if it doesn't have,

1)Infantry
2)Archers
3)Fliers

all 3 of them together. And we already know if there are 2 stacks of fliers in the defending hex, and one of those stacks is attacked by another flier, only the attacked flier stack will get to retaliate.

Also, it is true that you'll lose a dwagon if we find it. IF we find it. We just lost 5 scout. Well, knowing which direction the dwagon flew might help though.

Edit: By the way, I love how we are invading GK, from 2 different sides. We are playing the north flank here, while WaterMonkey is GM'ing the southern flank. It feels like a one big campaign, and it is a pretty realistic feeling that we, the northern flank, is not the entire world

[Twoy]

Nihila,
I have not read all the posts, because I wanted to address the first two battles of Turn 2.

Check this rule: Ranged units on the Defensive inflict hits before the enemy has a chance to attack.

Which means your sourmander stack would have been destoyed before they had a chance to do damage.

The same rule applies to the attack by the dwagons against the Griffon Riders. Also, Lucy would gets a +1 leadership bonus because of the presence of the chief warlord in her hex. I realize you did not give here the bonus because you thought the Chief Warlord was croaked.

Which means Lucy would have killed 1 dwagon and the GB chief warlord, before the stack had a chance to attack. And it also means the surviving dragons would have only killed 3 Griffon Riders.

Before you change the rules, we need to discuss these issues.

ps. I assume we are still using the GB2 rules, but with minor modifications.

[Nihila]

according to your answers, a column is meaningless if it doesn't have,

1)Infantry
2)Archers
3)Fliers

all 3 of them together. And we already know if there are 2 stacks of fliers in the defending hex, and one of those stacks is attacked by another flier, only the attacked flier stack will get to retaliate.

Also, it is true that you'll lose a dwagon if we find it. IF we find it. We just lost 5 scout. Well, knowing which direction the dwagon flew might help though.

Edit: By the way, I love how we are invading GK, from 2 different sides. We are playing the north flank here, while WaterMonkey is GM'ing the southern flank. It feels like a one big campaign, and it is a pretty realistic feeling that we, the northern flank, is not the entire world

Combined arms, my friend--er, enemy, or whatever, combined arms. Infantry and cavalry are valuable for mass-production, archers for raiding and defense against fliers, fliers for swift forays. There's a kind of generalized triangle here--Archers beat Fliers, because they're generally cheaper. Infantry beat Archers, because they're generally even cheaper. Fliers beat Infantry, because they outrun the Infantry.

Think of it like Rock-Paper-Scissors (or Bear-Cowboy-Ninja, or whatever you happen to be familiar with), only you get more than one hand. Anyone who's read the end of The Battle for Gobwin Bump can probably understand my complete obsession with ranged troops, though.

And you like the campaign blurb? Yeah, this should get suitably epic by the end of our war. 7 players from two sides against 2 GMs in the center. Of course, this should also give you extra incentive not to lose--if you do, we might decide to introduce our troops that were fighting the people who lost to the people who are still fighting. Or maybe not.

Which means your sourmander stack would have been destoyed before they had a chance to do damage.

The same rule applies to the attack by the dwagons against the Griffon Riders. Also, Lucy would gets a +1 leadership bonus because of the presence of the chief warlord in her hex. I realize you did not give here the bonus because you thought the Chief Warlord was croaked.

Which means Lucy would have killed 1 dwagon and the GB chief warlord, before the stack had a chance to attack. And it also means the surviving dragons would have only killed 3 Griffon Riders.

My Sourmanders and Dwagons are ranged. They deal simultaneous damage, so my Mathamancy should be correct (at least in that regard). And you choose to croak the Dwagon and Scalpel? Okay, I'll write that down.

My unit listing, as proof (also on page 2):

Decrypted Infantry: Move=2, Hits=4, Attack=4, Defense=4, Cost=10.
Decrypted Archer: Move=2, Hits=4, Attack=6, Defense=0, Ranged, Cost=15.
Decrypted Sourmander: Move=4, Hits=8, Attack=8, Defense=5, Ranged, Cost=35.
Decrypted Uniepegataur: Move=5, Hits=8, Attack=6, Defense=5, Cost=35.
Dwagon: Move=5, Hits=16, Attack=17, Defense=5, Ranged, Cost=100.