Erfworld Game Revived?

[thetobias]

Ok: @ Herbie: i'm considering lowering the pop time of both heirs and warlords as your cities grow. Also: I'm going to patch together a system from a couple of systems on this forum. (with my own input) it's nowhere near finished yet though and I don't expect to be able to start playtesting before Christmas (mostly because I will be suffering from a severe case of exams two weeks before Christmas)

@ nihila, yeah I will be using his ships. I think I'll online a preliminary version of the rules tomorrow so you get an idea what to expect.

Also: unlike kaed I will be patching the game and adding new features while you guys are playing it.

Also: damn... I like saying also a lot in my forum posts...

Gah... I can haz sleepz nao?

[thetobias]

I haz had sleepz, I are pleased.

Here is the ruleset: version 0.01pa (pre-alpha)

Most blatant changes from Kaeds ruleset:

Spoiler: show

Version changes: Kaeds Ruleset => NewErf 0.01pa
Units:
[*]Any unit with more than ten hits will be considered a heavy.
[*]Stabber-, piker-, archer - and scout-class infantry got every stat dropped by 1 point. These 4 free points can be used for customization.
[*]Spac-infantry (stabber/piker/archer/scout) will be able to choose simple specials.
[*]Knight-class infantry will be able to choose simple, complex and high level specials (rember kids, archons ARE knight-class infantry)
[*]Upkeep has been changed for some units, mostly lowered.
[*]The Courtier unit has been add.
Cities
[*]City distance restrictions have been lifted.
[*]Warlord and heir pop speeds decrease with city growth now. Warlord takes the same ammount of time as a knight-class unit, heir will be 60 turns @ lvl3, 30 turns @ lvl4, 15 turns @ lvl5. Popping a heir will still be a considerable investment, but not an impossible investment.
[*] walls can now be upgraded: @ lvl2 (75/20/50/3), at lvl3 add 50 points

[Nihila]

Okay, looks pretty good, but one question:
Is the production time for Sloop-class ships and Galley-class ships supposed to be the same for a Level 3 City?

[Twoy]

I think it would be a good idea to start with a level 3 capital and two level 1s. It took me 22 turns before I built my third city, and I believe I was ahead of the other players. I know I was way ahead of the one player I was in communication with. He was popping his second city at about the same time I was popping my fifth city.

Are you planning to have farms, mills, mines and wharfs to produce extra schmuckers?

[thetobias]

Okay, looks pretty good, but one question:
Is the production time for Sloop-class ships and Galley-class ships supposed to be the same for a Level 3 City?

Ok, update: you can now make two sloops per turn and 1 galley per two turns.

I think it would be a good idea to start with a level 3 capital and two level 1s. It took me 22 turns before I built my third city, and I believe I was ahead of the other players.

Hmm, actually I was planning to let everyone start with the good 'ol ruler+lvl 1 capital. Seeing as we're planning to make this a long term game.

Are you planning to have farms, mills, mines and wharfs to produce extra schmuckers?

Yes.

[HerbieRai]

It all looks real good. Another note though: Characters (warlords, casters, ect.) need to have "rider" and maybe "ranged" depending on how you word those abilities.

Also, I'd directly copy one of the magic rules from one of the other games. With so many different disciplines of magic creating a spell compendium could take a long while for something that may never come up in the game. (if no one gets a caster with flower power, that lore would be wasted time).

Lastly, are you planning on letting different units stack together, like 2 stabbers, 2 pikers and an archer in a stack?

[thetobias]

What do you guys think of the following system btw? If no new player slots are open and new players will want to join the game, I'd like to allow them to play as CWL for a side (giving them access to the sides board and offering them the opportunity to build a new side eventually). Once they build a new side it will remain a puppet side of the motherside for a fixed amount of turns (think: forced alliance here) and will then have the choice to either break alliance (possibly risking war) or stay with the motherside's alliance.

Also: beware of the loyalty mechanic. This will be an unknowable stat from 0 to 100, if this stat is too low your warlords (or units :O) might decide to defect (either to your enemy, or becoming barbarians). If this stat is high your warlords and units will gain a bonus to fighting. A units loyalty score can be changed through think- or turnamancy, the winning or losing of battles, promoting the unit to warlord/CWL, etc...

It all looks real good. Another note though: Characters (warlords, casters, ect.) need to have "rider" and maybe "ranged" depending on how you word those abilities.

Warlords get the rider special if I'm correct (if not: oh noes! that's what its a pre-alpha for )

Also, I'd directly copy one of the magic rules from one of the other games. With so many different disciplines of magic creating a spell compendium could take a long while for something that may never come up in the game. (if no one gets a caster with flower power, that lore would be wasted time).

I had something like that in mind, I will actually make up a lot as we play methinks.

Lastly, are you planning on letting different units stack together, like 2 stabbers, 2 pikers and an archer in a stack?

Yes, though I don't see the point of having 1 ranged and 4 non-ranged units

[Nihila]

What do you guys think of the following system btw? If no new player slots are open and new players will want to join the game, I'd like to allow them to play as CWL for a side (giving them access to the sides board and offering them the opportunity to build a new side eventually). Once they build a new side it will remain a puppet side of the motherside for a fixed amount of turns (think: forced alliance here) and will then have the choice to either break alliance (possibly risking war) or stay with the motherside's alliance.

My two cents on this: both players should consent to the initial setup, and it might be good if the first player was going to be busy for a long time. The second player would have the opportunity to build their new side after the first player came back.

And a question: Can I make my Stabbers Ranged and my Scouts Mounts? Can my Archers be Riders and my Pikers Water-Capable? Those are all simple specials, but I just wanted to make sure that this is okay.

Edit: Also, in Kaed's game, the A/B units popped at 3/2 turns for Lv. 4 and 5 cities. This is actually slower than in Level 3 cities, so you might want to change that.

[thetobias]

My two cents on this: both players should consent to the initial setup, and it might be good if the first player was going to be busy for a long time. The second player would have the opportunity to build their new side after the first player came back.

That was the situation I had in mind

And a question: Can I make my Stabbers Ranged and my Scouts Mounts? Can my Archers be Riders and my Pikers Water-Capable? Those are all simple specials, but I just wanted to make sure that this is okay.

Yes, but it will cost you. I intend to increase upkeep by 5 for every point you spend on a special. Also: if you use your points on specials your units will become weaker in the base stats: you'll have units with 2 or more points less in their base stat which actually cost you more/turn.
Still: enjoy your army of archers mounted on flying scouts

EDIT: oops, making your scouts mounts will NOT be possible after all. Just noticed that I intended to require the "heavy" special for certain specials such as siege and mount.

Edit: Also, in Kaed's game, the A/B units popped at 3/2 turns for Lv. 4 and 5 cities. This is actually slower than in Level 3 cities, so you might want to change that.

Thanks for spotting that for me: it as been changed

[Nihila]

EDIT: oops, making your scouts mounts will NOT be possible after all. Just noticed that I intended to require the "heavy" special for certain specials such as siege and mount.

I'm not quite sure what I think of that. That makes mounts much more expensive, in terms of usefulness/cost--mounts should be fast, that's about the only reason to use them, and every point spent on Hits is a point not being spent on Move.

Also, a more canon-based objection is that Wiener-Rammers appear to be fairly small, but are both Mounts and Siege units. Also, a Wiener-Rammer entered the Dungeon zone through the Tunnels, which would imply that they either are light or took burrowing.

[thetobias]

I'm not quite sure what I think of that. That makes mounts much more expensive, in terms of usefulness/cost--mounts should be fast, that's about the only reason to use them, and every point spent on Hits is a point not being spent on Move.

Also, a more canon-based objection is that Wiener-Rammers appear to be fairly small, but are both Mounts and Siege units. Also, a Wiener-Rammer entered the Dungeon zone through the Tunnels, which would imply that they either are light or took burrowing.

Hmm.. Good point..
I'm still making you pay extra upkeep for specials tho'

[Nihila]

I'm still making you pay extra upkeep for specials tho'

Alrighty.

Question about Walls:
How many points do we have to spend to get an effect on each stat? Is it 1.5 Hits per point, 1 Air Defense per point, 1 Defense per point, 1 Cargo per point? Or is it 1 Stack Capacity per point?

[thetobias]

How many points do we have to spend to get an effect on each stat? Is it 1.5 Hits per point, 1 Air Defense per point, 1 Defense per point, 1 Cargo per point? Or is it 1 Stack Capacity per point?

Correct on all accounts except for stack cap: stack cap is 1/5 points

[Nihila]

Can Wharfs be built on top of Canals?
Do we have to specify which direction Roads and Canals go, or do they just auto-connect to any other Road or Canal hex adjacent?

Edit: Do Mines produce Schmuckers?
Can Courtiers build cities? Or can only Warlords build cities?
What's the upkeep of our Rulers?

[HerbieRai]

Hey Thetobias,
If you need help creating something, I'd be more than willing to help. If not, I don't want to get in the way of your mojo.

[thetobias]

Ok, I've added level 4 and five cities, upgrades and terrain types.

Nihila:
1: No
2: They autoconnect
3: Yes
4: Yes
5: Base royal (120+60/lvl) or nonroyal (100+10/lvl) warlord upkeep.

Herbie:
The best way of helping me right now is making suggestions and asking questions about the ruleset.

[HerbieRai]

I can do that

Does a side need to have a flying or water capable mount to build ships. Without one they wont be able to move their character into the water hex to build the first wharf. You could let wharfs be built from neighboring hexes.

Should a water hex kill fliers as well?

The terrain move modifiers appear to affect units after they enter the hex. This means that a stabber with move 3 could move from plains to high mountains with no problems, but never be able to move again due to the -8 move.

[thetobias]

1. Correct
2. No
3. Changed the mechanic. Now every hex costs x moves. To move from one high mountain hex will cost you 6 move. If you build a road in a hex the move cost will be halved.

[thetobias]

And a new update. Now added are specials

[Nihila]

Nitpick: Under "Desert," it should be "1.5 move/hex" rather than "1.5 move/turn."
Also, "Frightening" seems a little overpowered. Maybe units with Frightening can reduce an enemy leadership bonus by an amount equal to the level of the highest level Frightening unit.
Last thing: in the description of units A/B, it's stated that they can buy "specials with the simple descriptor such as mount and flight." Flight is listed as a complex special.
Are Courtiers Riders?
Do Courtiers, Warlords, and Casters of a Terrain-based side receive the automatic Terrain Capability?