Erfworld Game Revived?

[turbler]

I was in the old Kaed game... If I can wrap my mind around this one fast enough, I'm in. It looks like a lot has changed.
Also, is there any actual page for the rules this time around? I'd imagine so, but I can't find it

[thetobias]

I presume you were about to type "would give a leadership bonus of 6." there.

Correct

You could have units with exactly 10 Hits have a choice to be heavy or not, and those units can get "promoted" permanently to heavy, reducing their capabilities. Those Hobgobwins seem to be Knights, so it fits pretty well with your chosen system.

I'm thinking boop canon! I don't really want to add another promotion rule besides garrison.

And, the formulae for Riders/Mounts mean that both units have the average of the combats and defenses of the two units, right?

Correct

I don't think I've asked this question before. We'll see.

Actually... You have

If a side is based on a Terrain, do flyers start with that Terrain Capability or do they have to buy it?

Once again: yes.

That seems like it will work,

Yes, yes it does.

but you need to update the battle calculator so that I can run some tests.

I might do that. But... Tired!

It looks like this way, a stack of 8 dwagons attacking a stack of 8 dwagons and 8 knights would probably cwoak a bit less than half of the dwagons and knights before being cwoaked.

Yes, and that's where tactics come in. Usually you take the mounted units out in the following order: rider-mount-rider-mount-etc, but with a warlord in your stack you can choose to fight the mounts first. Every croaked mount will also cause one of the riders to drop 1. out of stack and 2. with a 2/3 chance of dieing.

Btw: yay! Gotta love antiquated traditions. St. Nicholas Evening = new awesome silverlight mouse!

[Nihila]

Yes, and that's where tactics come in. Usually you take the mounted units out in the following order: rider-mount-rider-mount-etc, but with a warlord in your stack you can choose to fight the mounts first. Every croaked mount will also cause one of the riders to drop 1. out of stack and 2. with a 2/3 chance of dieing.

Are there any rules for combat between two led stacks? Because it seems likely that if you let both sides target units, both warlords will croak in round 1.

@turbler: Rules Document:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CYuPnBNltl7y71fkhQiZHDheUiERI6XkICljMLh0JBU/edit?hl=en&authkey=CNHX6PcC#

[Squeejee]

This sounds awesome, sign me up for the tundra-themed-pseudo-Russian side (and maybe reserve GM if someone bails). Which reminds me: what, exactly, are the plans for introducing new players into the ongoing game?

Also: Could a Warlord specify a contingency plan for when a battle doesn't quite go the way they planned, ie. "If the enemy stack at any point outnumbers mine by 100%, gets me down to 50% hits, or nails all of the mounts, I break off the attack and use my stack's remaining move to head to X: 14, Y: -37" - or is it that the players declare all of their attacks at the end of their turn and find out what happened when the GMs update?

Hmm, the Cola Empire, delivering refreshing justice to their enemies... I'll have to be careful to avoid frosty puns.

[thetobias]

Are there any rules for combat between two led stacks? Because it seems likely that if you let both sides target units, both warlords will croak in round 1

Yes there are:
There are a four scenarios with two possible outcomes:
Unled vs Unled = units attack eachother in the order of their stack.
Led vs Unled = led units have a choice in attacking, unled units attack in order of stack
Led (higer leadership) vs Led (lower leadership) = higher leadership units have a choice, lower leadership units attack in order
Led vs Led (equal leadership) = units attack eachother in order of stack

eg. max one side will have a choice in each combat! (still led stacks can make complicated manuevers like retreat.

Mind you not just the highest leadership counts, the TOTAL leadership in the stack counts.

This sounds awesome, sign me up for the tundra-themed-pseudo-Russian side (and maybe reserve GM if someone bails). Which reminds me: what, exactly, are the plans for introducing new players into the ongoing game?

Awesome, a recruitment form will be online soonish (once again bloody exams!)
The plans for introducing new players are this:
Players and Titans will be added on a first come first served basis. Every time a playerslot opens up for a Titan a new side will be called. They might start of weaker than other sides, but that's Erfworld for ya.

Also: Could a Warlord specify a contingency plan for when a battle doesn't quite go the way they planned, ie. "If the enemy stack at any point outnumbers mine by 100%, gets me down to 50% hits, or nails all of the mounts, I break off the attack and use my stack's remaining move to head to X: 14, Y: -37" - or is it that the players declare all of their attacks at the end of their turn and find out what happened when the GMs update?

Remember each side has it's very own personal Titan you can make your orders as complicated as you like. Sky's the limit (oh and of course when a Titan says "No, you can't do that.")

Hmm, the Cola Empire, delivering refreshing justice to their enemies... I'll have to be careful to avoid frosty puns.

Please don't. Puns are the essence of Erfworld. Good puns get you the blessing of the Titans (no real benefits )

Also: I'm working with Crovius to give our Titans more involvement in the game a la the Lords of Creation Game on this forum.
Also2: Remember, you have human Titans (not some gamemechanic enforcing computers) lateral thinking is encouraged and will probably give you a great edge over other sides.

Anyway, that's all for now folks, learnin' for my exams now. See ya

[Nihila]

This sounds awesome, sign me up for the tundra-themed-pseudo-Russian side (and maybe reserve GM if someone bails).

In Soviet Cola, player GM's YOU!

...What? You were all thinking it.

And some specific combat questions, for when you have time. Or want to avoid the exams...
1) Can Ranged stacks make hit-and-run attacks on hexes without Ranged units?
2) Is there a limit to how many times a stack can engage in a single turn, except for the number of hexes they can move into?
3) Can Ranged stacks attack from a different hex?

[Squeejee]

Okay, a couple rules issues I've noticed, and my thoughts...

1: Mounts with multiple riders. Does the mount average the stats of every rider? In theory, I could put together an "exploit mount" with a crazy high attack and two riders, run four of them in a stack of 8 and raise the attack of the entire stack for a minimal cost. What makes sense to me for mounts with multiple riders is to simply count the mount as a separate entity from its riders altogether - but they grant their movement type to all mounted units. So a mount with tunneling could carry its passengers, and a mount with flying grants flying to its passengers.

2: The "huge stacks" problem. Currently, a stack of 300 units could overwhelm anything it comes into contact with, multiplier or no - but I believe it's story canon that stacks have an infinite number of possible units, but the bonus caps out at 8. A solution to this would be to interpret that as being the bonus only applies to eight of the units in the stack. This makes it disadvantageous to group your units into stacks of more than eight, except in the instance that you have one or two units that would be on their own otherwise - by grouping those 300 units into 37 stacks of 8 (and one stack of four) you get 296 units with a combat modifier (and four with a lower one) instead of a stack of 300 where 8 have a combat modifier and 292 do not.

I think we can alter the combat mechanics as well - instead of adding up each stack's capabilities the units pair off against each other, either at random or in a predetermined order, and deal damage over a number of "combat rounds," where a maximum of 8 units (or double the lesser stack size - so 2 on 1 works, as well as 4 on 2, but no 8 on 1 fights) can participate in a round. A unit with a Warlord would be able to allocate combat damage to priority targets, but would still be open to a maximum of eight of the opponent's counterattacks. Archers get their hitsies, target that siege! In between combat rounds, assuming the player is paying attention (a player-gm instant message setup, I think would work), a side with a Warlord could also make new decisions regarding targeting, or choose to break off the attack or engage a different stack.

With this, in cases where stacks of wildly differing sizes engage each other - 300-stack archers versus 37.5 8 stacks of the same, neither side with leadership - the larger stack would engage the first small stack and fight to a draw, then re-stack between engagements and engage the next 8 stack, then re-stack between engagements and so on. The difference is that when fortune favors the larger stack, only 8 opponents die and the next engagement begins. When the 8-stacks roll well, however, they move to the next combat round - except that the next group of soldiers from the 300 haven't re-stacked yet, and so don't have a stack size bonus. Now the chances of the next group of enemies from the larger group don't have a stacking bonus, and cause only minimal harm to the dwindling Archers with stack bonus.

Uh, hope that makes sense. Basically gives Warlords more power over the engagement and makes stacks of more than 8 a shot in the foot, but will probably require a new excel sheet to calculate battle results. It's weird because for everything else has canon to base it off of, but Erfworld actually fights in real time, making it difficult to observe the mechanics in place.

3. There was mention of a terrain-based side getting the terrain-capable bonus for free? If that's the case, it doesn't makes sense to not be a terrain-based side. Non-specialized sides should have an incentive as well, but then we're straying away from canon, unless side-specific abilities are simply yet-to-be-mentioned. The ability to, at side creation, grant all of your units an ability of some sort for free is kind of cool, but exploitable as I see all-flying sides dominating shortly thereafter.

4. Shouldn't "heavy" status provide some sort of bonus as well as its penalties? I'm thinking +1 defense - a small bonus, but it makes it worthwhile to consider promoting 10 HPers beyond very limited circumstances where gravity can make them cross battlespaces. Also, it seems to me that Parson is exploiting a rule that says units can be upgraded in a "city" (or maybe capital) but that doesn't specify which city. Could make for an interesting tactic where a bunch of low-levels breach the castle wall, then you dump Schmuckers into the survivors to upgrade them in the midst of battle. Also, there doesn't seem to be a rule where you can force an upgrade of a unit, but I believe this capacity has been noted in-comic - it would be a relatively simple thing to implement. Maybe a $100 = 1 Exp, no upgrading units beyond 3rd level sort of thing?

But what happens when a unit levels? It's been implied that units of different levels have different stats, so maybe a +1 to two random stats every level with a floating chance of gaining a special could work, representing the fact that different units grow differently (and of course giving the players' warlords personality). But that would be a lot of bookkeeping for non-warlords, so maybe they should just get set bonuses every level - either laid out ahead of time by the owning side or determined by the rules. My idea is +1 combat and move at 2nd level, +1 defense and hits at 3rd level, +1 simple special ability at 4th level, +1 to all stats at 5th level and +1 complex special ability, but non-warlords can never advance beyond this "elite status". Promoting a unit causes it to carry over its previous stats/abilities, but while gaining a Warlord's upkeep - the typical case being that promoted units have lesser stats but more specials than natural Warlords, and also higher loyalty due to being non-royal.

I'm afraid that #5 has become a multi-part question.

5. In the current RAW, do you get a flying scout AND a foot scout? Or one or the other? Same question for mounted vs unmounted Knights. I would assume both.

6. Okay, so the simple-mancy special is meant to reflect the Archon's natural abilities if taken twice - the Archons being a "Knight"-class unit. Only the "heavy" knight can afford that AND flight, but the rules seem to imply that a knight can only have one "High-Level" ability - clarification that you can take the same one twice? Also, can "breath weapon" only be taken once, or can you stack fire- and lightning- for +16 combat? Canon seems to be each color Dwagon has one breath attack, but it's not explicitly stated either way.

7. So it's stated that the Titans tend to give sides what they need as far as casters go. Does this mean that each side will assemble a "wish-list" for casters, increasing the chances of drawing a specific one from the pot? Or has it been decided that when a caster pops, the side receiving it gets to decide what kind they want? How will two-caster linkup powers be judged? I know the magic system is still under way, so don't worry about these if you have no idea yet.

...that's all I've got for now. I'll be back next time with suggestions for unit abilities to add to the list.

EDIT: Here's a couple I just had. Neato.

Simple Ability: Superior Drilling
This unit has been drilled to death by their commander - or rather, this commander drills his units to death!
A unit with superior drilling is better at working together with his comrades. The unit's stack size bonus increases by one step, and if the stack size is 8 and all units in the stack have superior drilling, the stack bonus becomes a 2x modifier. This only affects the unit with Superior Drilling - one SD unit in a stack with 7 who don't have it doesn't grant this bonus to the rest.

Complex Ability: Masterful Drilling (4 points)
These guys are REALLY good at mining - oh, wait...
A unit with this ability has grown to trust its comrades in a way that few other Erfworld units have. A Masterful Drilling unit gains the same benefit as a Superior Drilling unit, with an addition. If a stack consists entirely of identical units with the Masterful Drilling ability, the unit gains a leadership bonus equal to the level of its highest level member and counts as a lead stack. If a commander-type unit (any unit with a leadership score) obtains this ability, he gains the ability to grant the benefit of Superior Drilling to any stack he leads, as long as he leads it.

Simple Ability: Plains Capability
They're not desert fighters, snow fighters, or mountain fighters. They prefer to fight in perfect weather on green grass - you know, really enjoy it.
A unit with this ability is so nonspecialist with regards to terrain that it has become an advantage. This unit can see into adjacent hexes while on Plains and Hills even if it is not a scout, and scout units with this ability can see one hex further whenever they can usually see an adjacent hex due to terrain, and see two hexes away on hills. This ability does not grant a 50% combat bonus in any kind of terrain, just the sight bonuses.

Simple Ability: Marine
Semper Fi.
This unit is specialized in something. Specifically, taking names and kicking boop! When this unit attacks from a naval unit's cargo bay, it gains a 50% combat bonus as if fighting on favored terrain. This unit can also contribute to a naval battle by attacking the troops that enemy ships in the engaged stack are transporting. If the naval unit isn't transporting any units, they can target naval unit itself - treat this attack as if the targeted naval unit is being attacked but cannot retaliate, such as from being out of range.

This attack can only be made against enemy naval units in the same hex as the Marines attempting to engage it, and only if the unit used to transport the marines engages the stack that contains the target naval unit for a minimum of one combat round. If a lead stack including the marines' transport ends combat without taking the marines with it, the marines are left to fight it out on the ship they were dropped off on. There is no reason marines can't perform this attack off of a flying mount, but they will not gain their favored terrain bonus when doing so.

If a stack of Marines reduces a target naval vessel to 50% of its HP or less, they cause that vessel to turn - but one of the Marine units is "disbanded" in the process, used to crew the new ship. Ships acquired in this fashion inherit their original faction's base stats, but have their XP total changed to matched the Marine expended to crew the ship. If this causes the ship to move up or down a level, recalculate all stat values accordingly. The ship captured retains any damage that it sustained while being captured, and will join that stack that the Marines' transport vessel belonged to until combat is over, at which point it may re-stack like any other unit.

Simple Ability: Aeronaut
He's a strange one, enjoys jumping off of Dwagons' backs and onto his enemies...
A unit with this ability gains a +50% terrain bonus when fighting from any mount with the flying ability. If bought with the "Riding" ability for a unit's base stats, reduce the cost of the abilities by one - so you get both for 3 points. Naturally, this ability is worthless on a Heavy unit.

Complex Ability: Combat Medic (4 points)
I'm not a Healomancer, but I know how a bandage works.
This unit has received first-aid training, gaining access to a very limited form of Healomancy. When this unit's stack ends a combat - either by defeating all enemy units, the enemy unit's commander calling a retreat, or this unit's commander doing the same - every casualty the Combat Medic's stack suffered has a 10% chance of reviving, fully healed, at the start of the next turn. This number is rolled in secret by the Titans, and a Combat Medic can only use this ability once per turn.

And a couple more rules points...

8. Shouldn't hills and mountains grant a sight bonus when claimed? I'm thinking one hex would be sufficient, with scouts getting two. For that matter, shouldn't flying units be able to see one hex away - with the exceptions being into forested, mountainous or city hexes?

9. Tundra and Plains do 20% damage per turn, but everyone heals at the start of every turn. Should be a clause preventing this, or was it intentional?

(current thoughts on an army, in case you want a second test side to run tests with)

Spoiler: show

Oz Empire Army Details

Name (Type) [Upkeep]
Hits - Combat - Defense - Move
Special Abilities
Fluff.
Strategic thoughts.

Mosh (Stabber) [35]
5 - 5 - 1 - 3
Tundra Capability
The Mosh - usually grouped into pits of 8 - are the fast assault unit of the Oz empire. Their strength lies in numbers, and also in their uncanny ability to fight hard in the cold of winter, despite being armored only in concert T-shirts and equipped with only their heads.
Mass and stack on dance fighting + leadership, could be awesome. Other than that very fragile, so keep them out of engagements that will take more than 2 combat rounds to resolve.

Crew (Piker) [25]
7 - 2 - 4 - 3
Garrison, Tundra Capability
The Crew, an essential part of any venue, are the ones who keep the home front in good repair. They are a part-time force, seeing little action outside the occaisional emergency when Oz is invaded.
Required in every city.

Roadie (Piker) [35]
7 - 2 - 4 - 3
Tundra Capability
The Roadies, an essential part of any band, are the ones who make up the bulk of Oz's army. In addition to being irreplacable in any campaign abroad, the Roadies are also charged with defending the Bus Stations, the Randy Roads, and the most distant borders of the Oz Empire.
Defense in depth, so spread them out. Mix into your other infantry formations and Roadies can absorb hits for the weaker units, albiet while weakening the overall combat of the stack.

Fans (Archer) [35]
5 - 6 - 0 - 3
Ranged, Garrison, Tundra Capability
No band is complete without the fans at home - they sometimes buy the CDs, always pirate the MP3s, and occasionally shoot enemy flyers.
Also required in all cities, but less important in cities with an AD tower.

Groupies (Archer) [45]
5 - 6 - 0 - 3
Ranged, Tundra Capability
Eventually, the most rabid fans become groupies - buying ALL the CDs because they can't afford a laptop to download the MP3s onto, following the band around and protecting it from aerial attack with longbows.
Mix into the outer ring of a moving multi-hex formation in order to hit approaching flyers. We don't have many of our own, so this is very important against aerial-focused sides.

Agent (Scout) [40]
3 - 0 - 0 - 5
Scout, Builder, Surveyor
Every band needs an agent - and with all the bands Oz manages, they need a lot of Agents. Though not useful in combat, they have a good head for numbers and can serve as able long-range scouts and support units to the Empire.
Very important to make money - they pay for themselves at level 1 on a mine, level 2 on a lumber mill or wharf, and level 3+ on a farm (depending on how good the farm is). They pay for themselves when assisting in the production of buildings / upgrades that cost 2,000 Schmuckers or more at level 1; 1,000 at level 2, 667 at level 3, 500 at level 4, etc.

Air Guitar (Scout) [40]
3 - 0 - 0 - 7
Flight, Scout, Mount, Tundra Capability
The rock offshoot of an Orly, the Air Guitar is the go-to scout and single-unit transport accross the Empire. If you're wondering, you ride it by standing on it like a surfboard.
Very cheap way to set up an intra-empire relay system. Put one in each city, or in a gas station if the cities are more than 7 hexes from each other, and move warlords to the next city, where they change to the next mount and take that to the next city, lather rinse repeat. Also good for supporting an infantry column with close range scouting.

Studio Guitarist (Knight) [90]
10 - 5 - 5 - 5
Rider, Leadership, Dance-Fighting, Tundra Capability
Though not techinically members of the band, the Studio Guitarists are just as essential a part of its sound as anyone else. They are capable of rocking out, giving their entire stack a dance fighting bonus from heabanging - Mosh Pits are especially effective deployed in this fashion.
These guys are basically mini-Warlords, and after a few levels may become better than Warlords in many respects, thanks to a fixed 90 schmucker upkeep. Put them each in a different stack to optimize bonuses, turning an army of cheap infantry into a deadly dance-fighting force.

Backup Singer (Knight) [100]
10 - 4 - 4 - 5
Heavy, Flight, Simple Thinkamancy, Simple Foolamancy
The rocking sisters of the Archons, the Backup Singers are no less potent. Born with innate magical powers - powers that grow with the Singer - they are quite powerful utility casters in areas that the Empire's primary casters fail to reach.
Archons are awesome, right? Keep one at home until a dedicated Thinkamancer pops to maintain diplomacy with neighbors. Have them follow around the Warlords to provide combat support services, but keep them clear of combat itself. When they catch a level by spamming veils every turn (whether needed or not) they become even better by collecting Randomancies.

Chopper (Special A) [40]
6 - 3 - 3 - 12
Mount, Fast
The preferred combat mount of the Oz Empire, the Chopper is quite possibly the most awesome thing ever made by a human. It's fast, and that makes it dangerous. It's JUST as dangerous to the rider, and that makes it cool. Too cool for words, so I'll shut up now.
These fall apart out in the cold, so keep them in cities and gas stations until they're needed - a fact that also makes them less appealing for the intra-empire relay system. As such, they are most useful at the empire's fringes, where there is less snow to damage them, and where cities are more distant anyway.

Undecided (Special B) [40]
6 - 3 - 3 - 3

Dyr Woolf (Special C) [80]
6 - 11 - 3 - 3
Siege, Tundra Capability
The northern cousin of the Wienerrammer, the Dyr Woolf is the go-to siege engine of the Empire. It's not cheap, but it's not weak either - only a partial stack of these is necessary to take a city, and that makes the investment easier to protect.
Keep in the column's interior, covered by archers until they hit the walls. These are too expensive / fragile to risk in open combat, but are semi-capable of it in a pinch. Oddly enough, these can be cycled in and out on Choppers / Air Guitars, so risking them on a march isn't necessary unless it is 24 or more hexes.

Lead Zeppelin (Special D) [250]
21 - 6 (14) (20) - 10 - 12
Heavy, Flight, Fire Breath, Mount, Battlecrap, Tundra Capability
The Oz Empire's greatest war machine, the Lead Zeppelin corps is the pride and joy of the Oz Empire. They bombard the enemy from above with fire and ferry the most potent warlords to battle. Despite their power, the Lead Zeppelin is fairly fragile to enemy assault, and so is most useful wearing down opponents who can't fight back.
Combat is 14 versus all, and 20 versus ground units - 21/30 while in tundra (with 15 defense). Transport capacity is 3 units - make one of them your warlord, and another one a studio guitarist, and your looking at 18/24 plus the warlord's leadership. Then you get another Lead Zep into the stack and put 4 more "rider" units on them both and go to town.

Explorer (Sloop) [60]
6 - 2 - 2 - 9
Cargo 8, Water Capability
The Explorer takes on the scouting role in a naval fleet, but are really used to keep tabs on distant waters. They can ferry troops, but are too weak to make a real go of it, risking the soldiers placed on board.
Avoid combat, fill up as much of your world map as possible and sell it to other factions. Hey, it works as an early method of gold generation in Civ, why not in Erf?

Armored Galley (Galley) [90]
8 - 8 - 8 - 5
Cargo 16, Water Capability
The Armored Galley is where the real navy begins. They aren't much for combat, but can be a somewhat reliable transport over distances, especially if they avoid combat - but in ship to ship combat they assume a support role.
The Armored Galleys go on top of the stack, and soak hits for the War Galleons, which are the real movers and shakers.

War Galleon (Galleon) [130]
10 - 20 - 5 - 5
Cargo 30, Water Capability, Ranged
And the War Galleons are the Lead Zeppelins of the sea. They bombard the enemy from outside their range and are crewed very carefully by their captains.
Keep them in unengaged stacks and bombard enemy ships, starting with the ones carrying troops. If engaged directly, a War Galleon will kill many and suffer heavy casualties - avoid, or assist with Backup Singers.

[Nihila]

Currently, a stack of 300 units could overwhelm anything it comes into contact with, multiplier or no - but I believe it's story canon that stacks have an infinite number of possible units, but the bonus caps out at 8. A solution to this would be to interpret that as being the bonus only applies to eight of the units in the stack.

Well, a multiplier of zero would solve the problem, now, wouldn't it ? And while larger stacks are easier to move around a map, they'd suck in combat, representing the logistical nightmare of organizing, single-handedly, 300 units.

5. In the current RAW, do you get a flying scout AND a foot scout? Or one or the other? Same question for mounted vs unmounted Knights. I would assume both.

In the past, it's been one or the other.

My thoughts on the Terrain-based sides: They get their Terrain Capability for free, but if they buy any other Capability, it costs 4 and counts as a complex special. The advantage of not taking a Terrain for a side would then be adaptability.

Or maybe their basic units would start with one less point, or something. I choose basic units because there'll probably be the most of those, so it'd hurt the side the most to lose points from them.

9. Tundra and Plains do 20% damage per turn, but everyone heals at the start of every turn. Should be a clause preventing this, or was it intentional?

Everyone heals at the start of their turn. So non-Tundra or Desert Capable units would face ambushes with less Hits than normal.

Also, for your test side, all of your basic units should have a higher upkeep--it's 5 Schmuckers per point spent on a special--and you shouldn't have 2 Scouts or 2 Knights, just one of each.

[Squeejee]

Well, a multiplier of zero would solve the problem, now, wouldn't it?

Ah, but my point is that a zero modifier is not canon, a capped out modifier is. So if our goal is to emulate Erfworld, the combat mechanics should reflect it. Also, infinite stacks can be in each hex, so there's no reason moving stacks would be more difficult than saying "all stacks in 127, 888 move to 137, 890"

In the past, it's been one or the other.

Okay, not sure if it was stated or not. I'll fix that list when I get a chance.

My thoughts on the Terrain-based sides: They get their Terrain Capability for free, but if they buy any other Capability, it costs 4 and counts as a complex special. The advantage of not taking a Terrain for a side would then be adaptability.

Or maybe their basic units would start with one less point, or something. I choose basic units because there'll probably be the most of those, so it'd hurt the side the most to lose points from them.

This sounds like a good idea - terrain sides are specialized, and this reflects it.

Everyone heals at the start of their turn. So non-Tundra or Desert Capable units would face ambushes with less Hits than normal.

[/quote][/quote]

Okay, I was curious whether exposure to the elements could kill units or not, "not" is the better option.

[thetobias]

@Nihila
Groaaaan...

Anyway:
1. Yes, they can, but they must be lead to do so. Archers get “first strike”. After that strike the melee units are assumed to have caught up with them and able to attack as well. So the tactic would be: move in command stack and some ranged stacks, let loose one volley, retreat to neighbouring hex, rinse and repeat till your out of move. (just remember, next turn they CAN and probably WILL jump you).
2. Nope. Actually an unlead stack will continue to engage until there are no more attackable enemy units in the hex like the “Berserker” ability in Wesnoth.
3. Nope, sorry.


@Squeejee
I’ve finally scaled your epic level wall of text and will try to respond in a non-shebear biting your head of-manner. Just remember the ruleset (and by extension the combat system) is kind of my baby, and I rather dislike some of the changes you’re proposing. (putting it mildly)

1) First of all: I’m happy with mounts as they are now. A mount with multiple units would get it’s stats decided by a sum of the mounted units stats instead of one mounted units stats. Also your “exploit mount” might be an attack raiser, but would need at least 10 hits to be able to mount two units and would therefore have low move and low defense, eg. not a very good unit.
2) Logistic issues of huge stacks aside I think I’ve stated earlier on that I am going to keep stack cap at 8 units. For moving large groups of units around the battlefield you would create battlegroups consisting of multiple full stacks. Also for attacking these battlegroups will not attack at the same time but in rapid succession (so 8 stacks of pikers could take down a full stack of D-class specials (not sure bout the numbers behind this one but you’ll get the idea).

3. In fact plains based sides get plains capability for free (it does not remove penalties but seeing as the world is mostly plains the combat advantage will be significant).

4. Nope: Heavy is not a promotion, it’s a special any unit of 10 hits and above gets.

5.1 I’m still working on a leveling system. Growth and xp requirement will be exponential. Just keep in mind that costs will rise as well (though on a linear basis).

5.2 Nope you get one heavy or rider and one flyer or walker.

6. Archons are alike to decrypted, severely game breaking units. You should not be able to create units as strong as them. Final. Also breath weapon is the special, so a red dwagon would have the special: Breath Weapon(Fire). So the special can NOT be taken multiple times.

7. The Titans will actually be “played” according to a rulesystem much alike to the Lords of Creation game on this forum. Pray for a certain type of caster and you might (and let me stress MIGHT) get it. Bimancer linkups will not do a lot of strange stuff, mostly increase the casters manapool and unlock a special class of spells (the Legendary spells (such as Kingworld)). Trimancer links however will be decided by your friendly neighbourhood Titans, we will decide together whether your trimancer cast is ok or not.

Special abilities: (I’m not sure of ‘em, but I think I dislike most of them, either imbalancing or not adding a lot. Sorry.)

8. Nope, remember, a hex is a LOT of land.

9. Nihila is right on the tundra/desert rule. You just start with 20% less hits if you don’t have a healomancer.

@Nihila2
Thanks for answering some of his questions. Terrain based sides however just get terrain capability for their specific type.

@Squeejee2
1. Actually, leadership will put some sort of cap on the amount of stacks one warlord can issue orders to.
2. Actually, it has been.
3. Nope, just plains capability.
4. Not, we’re not going to see Napoleons disgrace in Russia here. This would make desert and tundra based sides way to strong. However... A desert based side with a foolamancer-deletionist trimancer link would cause a Russia disgrace here. I’m talking hidden entropy-wells here.

[Nihila]

Groaaaan...

7. The Titans will actually be “played” according to a rulesystem much alike to the Lords of Creation game on this forum.

I think that Squeejee's proposal for a caster "wish-list" is quite reasonable, with two caveats: 1) The different disciplines would have to be balanced. Sort of a, "No, duh!," but worth mentioning. 2) That the casters be thematically related to the side. A druidic side based around the wonders of nature might forego a Dollamancer for a Dirtamancer, for instance. And a side with Limited Healomancy Knights probably shouldn't have a Croakamancer, barring strange justifications.

[Squeejee]

Groaaaan...

Firstly, I didn't mean to give the impression that I wanted to rewrite your entire ruleset or anything, and I'll avoid walls of text in the future.

My concern with the combat system is merely that it is enforcing some arbitrary limitation of eight on its users, instead of allowing that tactic to simply make sense. It's fine if you want to just keep it as simple as possible, I'm just saying that Civilization has a simple combat system. Simple and unfulfilling.

Also, more costumization is always good - the sides of erfworld are incredibly diverse, but with the current number of options even a handful of sides would all look similar.

That aside, why would leaders only make a limited number of orders per turn? Considering that you can't build warlords for quite some time, not allowing unled stacks to do things would cripple the game. There's really no reason for commanders to be present for units to take actions.

[thetobias]

Actually, the groan was a reaction to Nihila's groaaanworthy russian reversal. (unit: Colagolem, watercapable, in soviet cola, cola drinks you!)

On the wall of text subject, if you have read most of my posts you'd see I am the master of the Wall of Text (tm), so I can live with a wall of text or two.

The sides are not that diverse. Look at it, every side has 4 types of infantry and a knight. The extra diversity is added mostly by fluff, natural allies and tamed beasts (which will be in game, courtesy of Crovius) and in our case A, B, C and D-specials.

They would not be limited in giving orders, only in extending their leadership. So for instance a level 1 warlord could extend his leadership to two or three stacks (dropping his bonus to 0 but allowing him to command the stacks in battle), move orders can be given at any time. This will make it necessary to take a couple of warlords with a large assault force.

In this situation you might have lead and unlead stacks in your group, this would mean that when you ran in to enemies your unlead stacks would not hear the commander's orders (due to the commander's inexperience) and would attack enemies even if he called for a retreat.

Keep in mind the warlord command system is still in the process of being built so it might change at any time.

Spoiler: show

What you could do:
Order infinite stacks in your hex to move or scout a certain location.
What you cant do:
Control an infinite number of stacks in battle.

I'd call canon on this, because what other reason would a side have to send in such a large percentage of their warlords in combat (risky bussines)

[Nihila]

Okay, I have a few more questions, but my question-barrage will probably start winding down until I get more ammunition--that is, when you post the rules on Casters!

1) How will natural allies work? We can make an alliance with them, obviously, but will each alliance be negotiated separately?
2) And then, do we just give them Schmuckers to pop more units and pay their upkeep?
3) Will natural allies have lower upkeep for their stats?

All for now.

[thetobias]

I'll have to refer you to my Titan-in-Charge-of-Beasties-and-Natural-Allies for that. Croooovius!

[Twoy]

I am shutting down my computer, but will have it up and down over the next couple of months while I move to Heidelberg and find a place to live.

I definitely want in this game. It should not take me long to build my side once the rules are complete.

[storobin]

it and move them around. The real help is that A) you can have a see through background color for the units and cities, so they don't block everything behind them and B) you can have notes for every unit or city on the board, which hide when your not using them. Useful for remembering numbers, and other stats. While it isn't a combat calculator it seems like it would help keep everything straight for the GM. I forgot where I got it, but it is freeware and the zip file (which I still have) is 2.3 MB. Unzipped its about 23 MB.
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Christening Presents
Christening Gift Ideas

[thetobias]

Ok, unless someone volunteers to create a whole magic system in what...oh.. one week? I'm saying we'll use DarkArbiters rules for casters and Ehbobo's spellbook.

Rules (only the rules about casters): https://docs.google.com/View?id=dhnqc944_203ffqkr9fn
Spellbook: https://docs.google.com/View?id=dhnqc944_208dwxrqxft

That way we can get the game up and running quickly.

Also, if people had not yet gleaned it from previous posts there WILL be titanic involvement in the game in the form of a rpg with a lot of intruige going on above you. A post with rules for titanic involvement will be up on the Erfworld forums. Creating sides or your Titan will be done at the forum: http://newerf.ephpbb.com/

[Sir Shadow]

As a co-titan in Kaed's game, I gotta say I like some of the tweaks to rules. Unfortunately, since I never got to see combat in his game, I can't comment on anything related to that

[Nihila]

Ok, unless someone volunteers to create a whole magic system in what...oh.. one week? I'm saying we'll use DarkArbiters rules for casters and Ehbobo's spellbook.

With the obvious caveat that there's a 1 in 1+4^x chance of popping a caster rather than 1 in 1+5^x

Also, I have 1 spell suggestion:
Dollamancy:
Create Tchoktche--Create (Caster Level) Tchoktches. 60 Juice per Tchoktche, 12 Hits, 6 Attack, 3 Defense, 11 Move, Mount, Heavy, Dollamancy Golem, 80 upkeep

(For the curious, that's just a C-unit, with "Dollamancy Golem" stuck on. It technically has the Fast special, but it's a Golem so it doesn't have to follow all the rules )

Also, to create my side, do I just post units & fluff?