The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

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Re: The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

Postby Stryke » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:11 pm

yeah but can i lead a ranged stack into the hex and use it to attack the beserker stack
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Re: The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

Postby Nihila » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:22 pm

Yes, now that HerbieRai's attacked the ranged stack.
IC:

"Charlie's an odd one... I'm not sure we should trust him, but if we can hire the Archon to help us for a bit, we can learn about them...

Chief, if you could confirm that our scout saw living units, not uncroaked? I am not privy to the full scouting report, but I do know that uncroaked dust when they croak again...

If we're dealing with Foolamancy here, with Croakamancy, that's very worrying."

Commander Betia did not, however, look very worried, but rather very thrilled at the prospect of a mystery to be unravelled, or perhaps at the thought of enemy units to be croaked.
"The Infantrymen of Erfworld have nothing to lose but their chains. They have Erfworld to win. Infantry of all sides: Unite!"--Kawl Mawx, Master-class Moneymancer
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Re: The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

Postby Stryke » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:40 pm

"Ok newby i'll lead the initial attack you follow in to wipe up any survivers, got it"
"Got it"
"Well then lets do this"

OOC
Stacks as follows
==7 Archers
==Deus

==7 Pikers
==Ex

Orders
Deus will lead his archery unit against the Barbarians, even if he scores low he should deal a fair amount of damage
Ex will then follow him in and finish off Charles the Red

Edit: these attack orders have been changed slightly

If anything survives of the ranged stack both stacks will then finish it off
Last edited by Stryke on Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:43 am

"Good day, Lilly, this is Joan, Chief Warlord of Cameria. I would like to hire you out, but I fear that Charlie is purposefully putting you in danger. What can you tell me about your abilities, that may convince me you are capable of handling the risks that our castles apparently are about to face?"

=====

OOC: *cough*. Yes, Joan is insulting Charlie. Because boop Charlie.

Anyways, I'll be checking the first combat, and I'll run the combat calculation for Stryke's first attack:

Deus will lead his archery unit against the Barbarians, even if he scores low he should deal a fair amount of damage


And use the time of my calculation post as a seed for the second combat order from Stryke:

Ex will then follow him in and finish off Charles the Red


====

EDIT: the first battle calc looks ok.

8 archers lost, but they sold their skin dearly. 7 enemy longbowmen were now laying dead - or would have been, had they left any corpse. Intriguing. Perhaps there was more to the barbarians than Joan suspected. Foolamancy? No. Veils don't kill. They may lead one into a trap, but they do not kill, and the arrows in the bodies of the Camerian archers appeared real enough. Joan wondered what kind of magic this could be. Maybe something to mirror her own affliction? If so, then Cameria's troubles will not be fixed by blades and arrows.

Joan concentrated, focusing on calling the Thinkamancer. "Miranda, what happened to Oldcastle? Why was it abandoned?"


Moar battle calcs, later.
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Re: The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:46 am

On second thoughts, I'll postpone running battle-calcs until HerbieRai and Stryke negociate who attacks what. Right now both are sending their troops against the barbarians at E8, as far as I can tell (another reason to postpone battle calcs, as I'm not entirely sure who Stryke is attacking first).

My guess is to have HerbieRai done with the planned attacks, then have Stryke mop up what's left. There's barbarians at E7 too, weakening them should be good to prevent a fall of Newcastle.
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Re: The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

Postby Stryke » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:40 am

I was under the impression that Herbie was gonna attack first, there by allowing me to bypass the ranged stack and attack the beserkers with Deus's ranged stack. I then decided to bring Ex in to finish off charles the red as it seemed like a good idea. however as Ex croak the entire of Charles remaining stack (as one unit counts as a stack in itself) her FTG should reset to 1 meaning she can attack the remainder of the bezerker stack for full damage.

Actually what would happen if Deus were to restack with Ex then attack the remainder of the beserker stack. would the rest of the stack deal full damage and Deus only 75% of his (which would still be a big boost) or would the entire stack drop to 75% in which case could the still benefit from his leadership bonus if he chose to lead.

however the better idea might be to attack with Deus anyway. I need to know how much of his stack survived and if it would be ennough to finish the stack off (and if it was would that then reset his ftg to 1) which should be with out retalliation as he's ranged.

Another thing is that if i attack with Ex is that would count as two attacks in which her stack would probablt deal more damage therefore 2XP and wh'e level with the remainder of her stack, then again she could restack with the archers for th same result and none of the damage.

Could i attack with Deus to do serious damage to the Beserker stack then finish charles of with Ex and her piker stack, then restack Ex with Deus and have that stack attack again, that would level Ex and the Archers, plus both stacks would have a FTG of 1.

AAAAAAAAARGH TACTICS
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Re: The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

Postby WaterMonkey314 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:54 pm

Excellent points, Stryke - I hadn't considered the tactical consequences of allowing multiple attacks, but it certainly opens up new possibilities. :P

Stryke wrote:I was under the impression that Herbie was gonna attack first, there by allowing me to bypass the ranged stack and attack the beserkers with Deus's ranged stack. I then decided to bring Ex in to finish off charles the red as it seemed like a good idea. however as Ex croak the entire of Charles remaining stack (as one unit counts as a stack in itself) her FTG should reset to 1 meaning she can attack the remainder of the bezerker stack for full damage.


To clarify - Herbie's first attack has already occured. You guys can now attack either stack - the Big Berserker Stack, or the remainder of the Big Ranged Stack (aka a wounded Charles the Red).

Ex's fatigue will stay at 1, correct.

Stryke wrote:Actually what would happen if Deus were to restack with Ex then attack the remainder of the beserker stack. would the rest of the stack deal full damage and Deus only 75% of his (which would still be a big boost) or would the entire stack drop to 75% in which case could the still benefit from his leadership bonus if he chose to lead.


Combining a fatigued stack with a non-fatigued stack will mean that the fatigued units fight at 75% of their previous strength; the fresh ones hit for their full attack. The math will get a bit more complicated for whoever runs the battle, but not too much so. The fatigue penalty factors out, so you can calculate it into each unit's base attack strength and then assume the whole stack is fresh.

So in short, Deus would still contribute his full leadership bonus if he restacked and attacked again, but his individual attack would be reduced to 75% its previous attack (although he is mélee and you prob don't want him to fight anyway).

Stryke wrote:however the better idea might be to attack with Deus anyway. I need to know how much of his stack survived and if it would be ennough to finish the stack off (and if it was would that then reset his ftg to 1) which should be with out retalliation as he's ranged.


Just to make sure this clear - Deus's stack will get retaliation from whatever survives the first volley. It won't be much, but you'll probably lose a few archers. If he wipes everything out in the second volley, he won't get any retaliation. (cause everything is dead :P )

His fatigue would stay at .75 though - he won't incur any further fatigue, but he won't get an instant energy boost.

Another thing is that if i attack with Ex is that would count as two attacks in which her stack would probablt deal more damage therefore 2XP and wh'e level with the remainder of her stack, then again she could restack with the archers for th same result and none of the damage.


I can't speculate on whether she'd win both battles (I don't have numbers in front of me), but if she wins both, she and her stack would all level.

Could i attack with Deus to do serious damage to the Beserker stack then finish charles of with Ex and her piker stack, then restack Ex with Deus and have that stack attack again, that would level Ex and the Archers, plus both stacks would have a FTG of 1.


1) Attacking Berserkers with Deus's ranged Archer stack? Yep.
2) Finishing Charles with Ex and pikers? Yes - though Ex's pikers will suffer losses as they close in (combat will be non-simultaneous - Charles will fire first, and then whatever survives will then attack him)
3) Do you mean restacking Ex with Deus and his archer stack? If so, yes - everyone in that stack would gain a net 2nd XP, enough to level Ex and the Archers.
4) Fatigue will NOT reset to 1. Deus and his archers will probably be left with .75; Ex will probably be at 1 though.

I think it's irrelevant at this point anyway, since it's kind of implied that fatigue resets back to 1 each time the turn changes. That doesn't quite make sense in terms of Erfworld though, and I doubt we ever really had this situation before in previous games. As far as I can remember, the MCC never had a situation where a stack was attacked by GB, survived, and then continued to advance forward.
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Re: The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

Postby WaterMonkey314 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:25 pm

"Good day, Lilly, this is Joan, Chief Warlord of Cameria. I would like to hire you out, but I fear that Charlie is purposefully putting you in danger. What can you tell me about your abilities, that may convince me you are capable of handling the risks that our castles apparently are about to face?"

"Well, that's great to hear! Er... your wanting to hire me, not Charlie putting me in danger. I don't really know too much myself about what's about to happen, but Charlie obviously doesn't think you're going to last all that long. I took the liberty of inquiring about a quote on the risk of you guys defaulting in the next few turns (it's a quick way to check what we think about your survival prospects) and I got a 95% chance in the next 4 turns. After that, I checked the insurance quote on your capital, and ... you don't want to hear it. Dreadful, I know, and I really do want to help.

I suppose Charlie really wants some of his own boots on the ground - or in the air - to examine the situation, whatever it is. I'm guessing something really big is heading your way, or else he wouldn't want me to work for you guys so badly.

As for protecting myself, you get the entire "premium package"! That gives you access to all my specials - I've got Leadership, Shockamancy, Foolamancy, and Thinkamancy! I think that's a pretty formidable combination myself, and we really do hope you agree!!!"


====

"Miranda, what happened to Oldcastle? Why was it abandoned?"

"Mm, what? Ah - why we abandoned Oldcastle? Well, Cameria used to be a part of the Federation of Alkimia to the north; they eventually spun off two separate sides - one at Neufchâtel and another at Oldcastle. Not long after that, Oldcastle was sacked by roving barbarians from the northern seas - this was before Alkimia became a great naval power. In fact, the sack of Oldcastle was why Alkimia built its navy - "never again" was the cry.

Alkimia absorbed Oldcastle's cities to the northwest; we took the ones closer to us. King Alfred had the brilliant idea of leaving it abandoned, though - not many people know that it's there - and even fewer that it's a capital site. It's our failsafe option if Neufchatel should come under attack - we can evacuate everyone to Oldcastle while waiting for Alkimian reinforcements."
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Re: The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

Postby Stryke » Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:21 pm

Could i attack with Deus to do serious damage to the Beserker stack then finish charles of with Ex and her piker stack, then restack Ex with Deus and have that stack attack again, that would level Ex and the Archers, plus both stacks would have a FTG of 1.


1) Attacking Berserkers with Deus's ranged Archer stack? Yep.
2) Finishing Charles with Ex and pikers? Yes - though Ex's pikers will suffer losses as they close in (combat will be non-simultaneous - Charles will fire first, and then whatever survives will then attack him)
3) Do you mean restacking Ex with Deus and his archer stack? If so, yes - everyone in that stack would gain a net 2nd XP, enough to level Ex and the Archers.
4) Fatigue will NOT reset to 1. Deus and his archers will probably be left with .75; Ex will probably be at 1 though


ok i'll do this then
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Re: The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

Postby tigerusthegreat » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:32 pm

Can foolamancy make a stack appear to have a unit that is not really there?
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Re: The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

Postby WaterMonkey314 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:40 pm

tigerusthegreat wrote:Can foolamancy make a stack appear to have a unit that is not really there?


Er... it's not exactly within the parameters of Foolamancy use within the rules... but it's definitely something Jack can do. As for Lily the Archon, I dunno - what are you thinking about?
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Re: The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

Postby HerbieRai » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:51 pm

I'll run a combat then.

Watermonkey, when you get some time can you post a link to the combat sheets, I have on old version on my computer, so please check the mathamancy

Battle is joined in hex E8
TIME OF POST: 4038 (off of Stryke's post)

Spoiler: show
Dues Stack
Total Attack: 35
Average Unit Level: 1
Average Defense : 2
Number of units: 7
Stacking Bonus: 1.6
Highest Commander: 1.4
Terrain Bonus: 0
Random Percentage: 75%
Total Damage before Defense: 61
Hits Inflicted on the Enemy: 41

enemy stack is reduced to an injured tracker (2 hits left) and Bobby the Red

Retaliation
Total Attack: 15
Average Unit Level: 2
Average Defense: 2.5
Number of units: 2
Stacking Bonus: 1.1
Highest Commander: 1.3
Terrain Bonus: 0
Random Percentage: 85%
Total Damage before Defense: 20
Hits Inflicted on enemy: 15

We lose 3 archers from our stack. No one else is injured


Stryke, you should move some of your units back to the city. Currently We have Ex and his pikers on one side, and Jenkins and his pikers on the other. I think with that we can take out the remnants of these two stacks (one stack of an injured warlord and another of an injured scout and warlord. We need to have protecting our 2 cities as a priority followed by protecting the knights that are going to be left in the field. I don't think any other men can reach your city before end of turn, so I'd suggest moving all your forces back. I have a feeling some archers are going to be on you before our next turn. Meanwhile, Others can move men into the capitol, so as long as they do that, I can move all my men into the field to finish the enemy and protect the warlords. till next turn.

If Ex really needs the exp., then have him and his stack attack Charles the Red (the wounded archer warlord). You should only take a casualty at worst, then have all your pikers and archers move back to the city, and we'll have a lot of knights in that hex.

I do not believe this is foolamancy. If it had been some illusion then our archers wouldn't have been sent to the Titans. On a side note, how do we know their bodies dissipated if our men were all cut down? We shouldn't have seen that until our next attack. There is some major events happening this phase indeed.
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Re: The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

Postby tigerusthegreat » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:52 pm

WaterMonkey314 wrote:
tigerusthegreat wrote:Can foolamancy make a stack appear to have a unit that is not really there?


Er... it's not exactly within the parameters of Foolamancy use within the rules... but it's definitely something Jack can do. As for Lily the Archon, I dunno - what are you thinking about?

Wondering why they aren't leaving corpses...unless they aren't supposed to (guess with no croakamancy rules it wouldn't matter, just seems weird).
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Re: The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

Postby Nihila » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:13 pm

"We watched from neighboring hexes, of course. And... the uncroaked always dust, but the living never should. And now we have 2 reports of the living dusting... I do not like this. It seems dangerous."
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Re: The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

Postby WaterMonkey314 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:12 pm

Combat looks generally ok; however, I'm getting you guys as having a raw damage of 59 unless I count Deus's level, in which case it goes to 62, not 61. :? Your hits inflicted is either 39 or 41, leaving a wounded tracker with either 4 or 2 hits left.

BLAND, could you check this?

I'm working on making the "official" combat spreadsheet, but BLAND's one should work fine if you can get it to work - I'm making cosmetic and UI changes.
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Re: The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

Postby Stryke » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:09 pm

HerbieRai wrote:Stryke, you should move some of your units back to the city. Currently We have Ex and HER pikers on one side, and Jenkins and his pikers on the other. I think with that we can take out the remnants of these two stacks (one stack of an injured warlord and another of an injured scout and warlord. We need to have protecting our 2 cities as a priority followed by protecting the knights that are going to be left in the field. I don't think any other men can reach your city before end of turn, so I'd suggest moving all your forces back. I have a feeling some archers are going to be on you before our next turn. Meanwhile, Others can move men into the capitol, so as long as they do that, I can move all my men into the field to finish the enemy and protect the warlords. till next turn.

If Ex really needs the exp., then have HER and HER stack attack Charles the Red (the wounded archer warlord). You should only take a casualty at worst, then have all your pikers and archers move back to the city, and we'll have a lot of knights in that hex.


Fixed that for you

The whole idea behind my plan was to Level Ex this turn, hence the two attacks and the restacking. And if Charles rolls full damage she would actually lose two pikers in the attack as his max damage once you accounf for level and leadership rounds down to ten. which leads to another question, when do hits replenish is it the start of the day, turn or when the next sides turn starts like fatigue?

My tactic would allow me to level Ex and the 4 remaining archers, who could then return to newcastle with the remaining pikers and you could then move you stacks in to defend the knights/warlords. So by allowing me to preform both attacks Ex applies a greater level/leadership bonus to the stacks you move in to defend and the archers who i return to newcastle are able to deal more damage to any attackers.

Unless i'm missing something, using your units for what should be Ex's second attack seems the less optimal of paths.

As such now that Deus has weakened the bezerker stack i still want Ex to lead the pikers against Charles, restack with Deus and attack the Beserker stack. Then as per you suggestion i shall move my remaining pikers and archers back to newcastle under the condition you move some units in to protect my knights/Warlords.
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Re: The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

Postby WaterMonkey314 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:33 pm

Units heal at the start of your turn, so you'll have to survive the rest of the "day" before healing. You'll have to survive any side' actions whose turns come after Cameria's in the turn order this turn, and those whose turns come before Cameria's trn begins next trun.

Tiger - you sent me a PM, but you seem to have disabled receiving PMs, so I can't reply.
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Re: The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

Postby tigerusthegreat » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:34 pm

PMs fixed, sorry about that forgot I disabled them.
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Re: The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:50 am

About the combat calc- it seems almost ok, as long as you do not think Deus contributes to the stack bonus.

In my calculation, Deus, even without contributing to the Attack sum, does contribute to average level, average defense, and stack bonus- there are 8, not 7, units in our stack.

Because of that, unlike HerbieRai's calc (where 7 units in the stack are considered), I'm getting 43 Hits inflicted on the enemy- which leaves just Bobby the Red!

He retaliates, dealing 10 damage, croaking 2 of our Archers.

=============

"Brilliant idea? The King must have a different measure of brilliance than the rest of us then. We'll need to make sure that some roving nomads haven't set up camp inside as soon as we can. Thank you, Miranda, break thinkagram."

"Lilly? How are your move and scouting for this turn?"


============

Btw, we have one stack in the E8 hex. It can kill off everything in there, based on the multi-attack rule. Joan doesn't need to point this out.

Ex may strike against the E7 little barbarian stack. Remaining units in Neufchatel may obliterate the last barbarian stack at F9, even. And with some reinforcements from Sir Tigger, we seem safe against what we currently know of.
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Re: The Arkentool War - Prologue: "Gathering Clouds"

Postby Stryke » Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:57 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:About the combat calc- it seems almost ok, as long as you do not think Deus contributes to the stack bonus.

In my calculation, Deus, even without contributing to the Attack sum, does contribute to average level, average defense, and stack bonus- there are 8, not 7, units in our stack.

Because of that, unlike HerbieRai's calc (where 7 units in the stack are considered), I'm getting 43 Hits inflicted on the enemy- which leaves just Bobby the Red!

He retaliates, dealing 10 damage, croaking 2 of our Archers.

Btw, we have one stack in the E8 hex. It can kill off everything in there, based on the multi-attack rule. Joan doesn't need to point this out.

Ex may strike against the E7 little barbarian stack. Remaining units in Neufchatel may obliterate the last barbarian stack at F9, even. And with some reinforcements from Sir Tigger, we seem safe against what we currently know of.


Ok in the first line you say that Deus doesn't contribute to the stack bonus but in your second line you say he does. I'm going to assume that in the first line you meant he doesnt contribute to the stack damage, which is ok he's there for the LvL LDR STK bonus's which you say he gives.

Secondly, why is everyone so against me leveling Ex?

And BLAND, attack E7. I'm going to run some numbers before i do this, last time i ran them it came out a slaughter. with the barbarians taking no damage.

Edit: Yeah it come out as the barbs doing 47 damage to my 41 hits, as they are ranged and Ex's stack is not i would lose the entire stack+warlord for no gain what so ever. However if your set on the idea of sending a lead stack to its doom Jenkins should suffice.

Ex's orders don't changed and she will continue with my plan. Move to E8 Finish of Charles the Red, restack with Deus (second bottom above deus) and Deus will lead the attack to finish off the Beserker stack.
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