New Erf Rules Overhaul

by **Twoy** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:09 pm

Contracts:
An agreement between sides or commanders that contains terms each side must follow. Terms of a contract appear extremely difficult, or impossible to disobey. Only Rulers and Chief Warlords may sign contracts that bind their entire side. Independent Casters and Natural Ally Commanders may sign contracts that bind themselves and the units they control.

by **Twoy** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:10 pm

To Do List:
1. Contracts. (done)
2. Loyalty system. (done)
3. Sacking a city. (done)
4. Razing a city. (done)
5. Turn order. (done)
6. Natural allies. (done)
7. Wild Units (done)
8. More clarification on combat rules (done)
9. Fix Castle Walls rules (done)

by **Twoy** » Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:44 pm

Here is the rule:
Loyalty:
Loyalty is measured on a normal scale of 100 to -100, though some spells, effects or attributes may cause a unit’s loyalty to exceed 100. A unit’s loyalty may not be reduced below -100. All units are popped with a Loyalty of 100. Casters or Natural Allies who join a side by contract normally begin the relationship with a Loyalty score of 50. Units created by casters and units popped by Natural Allies owe their loyalty to the Caster/Natural Ally Warlord. Chief Warlords get a bonus of +50 Loyalty, but lose 75 Loyalty if they are demoted. Heirs receive a bonus of +25 Loyalty. Spells can modify Loyalty as can the actions of others. Units with Loyalty below 0 will turn if they are given the opportunity. Units with a Loyalty of -100 will turn even if it causes them to disband.

Additional info not in the rules:
All units are subject to Natural Thinkamancies: Obedience, Loyalty, and Duty.
Loyalty is an unknowable unit stat, affecting how likely a unit is to defect or double-deal when possible.
Obedience means that units are compelled to obey orders. However, depending on the unit's relative Loyalty or intelligence, they may voice their disagreement or outright disobey the orders if they believe the order goes against higher orders or their Ruler's interests. Disobedience may cause the unit to disband, but a clever and resourceful unit can accomplish many things while staying just on the safe side of obedience.
Duty affects Commanders only, which means it affects Warlords, Casters, and possibly Chiefs of Natural Allies. It has a higher effect on Warlords, highest on Chief Warlord. It makes them want to use their own initiative in the service of the Ruler. It also makes them reluctant to withhold information, unless they are convinced that it is in their Ruler's best interests for them to do so. Duty can backfire when an Unit truly believes their Ruler is too incompetent to make decisions, and decides to overrule them.

by **Twoy** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:53 pm

Changed the chance of a ruin from 1 in 6 to 1 in 36.

I started laying down ruins on the world I am creating and there were ruins everywhere. Even at 1 in 36, in the first 30 hexes I rolled 3 ruins.

Edit: The game map is 4,800 hexes. That works out to an average of 133 ruins. I think that is enough... perhaps more than enough.

by **Twoy** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:35 pm

Turn Order

1. Units heal.
2. Units ordered to pop from previous turns pop.
3. Treasury.
a. + Income from all sources added to treasuries.
b. Treasury
c. - Upkeep paid.
d. Final Treasury
4. New Pop/Build Orders.
5. Unit moves.
6. Combat.
7. Reinforce.
8. Pop/Build Orders in progress.
9. List of injured units.
10. End turn.

Sample Order:

Spoiler: show

by **Twoy** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:49 am

Natural Allies(Working)
Natural allies (or non-capital sides) are sides in Erfworld that have no capital, no cities, and no royals of their own. They can form long semi-permanent alliances, or they can sustain themselves via mining, farming, hunting, and such. Natural Ally units do not pop randomly as do Wild Units. Each of the types of known Natural Allies will have 1-3 stacks each led by a chief somewhere on the map. Natural Allies that make a semi-permanent alliance with a Side may have more than one stack for each chief. In order for a Side to gain a Natural ally, the side must sign a contract ofering to pay the side's upkeep and usually some additional shmuckers for the Chief to add to his treasury.

A chief unit is exactly the same as the other units that popped in his or her stack, except the Chief has the Leadership (minus) Special. Leadership (minus) only applies to Natural Allies of his side. Chiefs pay the full cost for Leadership (minus) when raising levels, i.e. upkeep increase by 50 Shmuckers/level.

Upkeep for Natural Allies is double normal upkeep. Cost to pop a Natural Ally unit is equal to its upkeep cost. A Natural Ally Chief can pop one full stack of units each turn. If a chief pops a full stack, the stack may include a new Chief Unit.

Known natural allies:
1. Hobgobwins

Spoiler: show

2. Gobwins

Spoiler: show

3. Witches

Spoiler: show

4. Daemons

Spoiler: show

5. Western Giants

Spoiler: show

6. Marbits

Spoiler: show

7. Elf Brands

Spoiler: show

Elves and Marbits will not ally with a side that has Gobwin, Hobgobwin, Witch, or Daemon allies.

by **Kaed** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:13 am

Twoy wrote:Wild Unit stacks that pop without a chief will cwoak at the end of the next turn. Wild unit stacks with a Chief have a 33% to cwoak each turn, a 33% chance to stay the same number and a 33% chance to double in quantity.

You know, you don't actually have to replace every 'r' with a 'w', mate. People still say 'croak' and 'crap' and 'tree' rather than twee cwoak and cwap.

And I suggest you clarify things a little bit there. Dwagons, for instance, don't have a chief, ever, and I doubt they pop in groups higher than 3 (Stanley mentioned finding 3 dwagons in a hex once, and that was a very rare occurance). Does that mean that dwagons will always only last 1 turn?

I suggest working on a d% system to determine what sort of creature pops, if any, with things like hobgobwins and elves being more common than dwagons. And then determine with another d% what kind of elf or dwagon it is, if they have varieties (I expect some elves are more native to certain hex types than others. Woodsy elves would fit well in forests, but maybe Eager elves are more for Plains, for intance), and another to determine the amount. In general, I'm sure stuff like the hobwobin example could be a simple d8, but with dwagons, maybe 70% of the time it's 1 dwagon, 25% of the time 2, 5% of the time 3. Just an example. I can work on a table like this if you wish

by **Twoy** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:32 am

For some unknown reason, I always think that croaked, uncroaked and croakamancer are spelled with a "w" even though they are not.

Good point. I think I need to divide Natural Allies and Wild Units into two separate sections.

As far as I know, Dwagons only pop one at a time. If that is true, then it follows that other Wild Units only pop one at a time.

by **Twoy** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:32 am

Added a new Simple Special to help fix the problem with Gobwins being better at fighting in tunnels and Heavy units that can travel in tunnels.

Tunnel-Fighting - +2 Attack and +2 Defense while fighting in tunnels. Heavy units with Tunnel-Fighting may pass through tunnels.

I am also thinking of changing heavy to +8 hit points. At +6 hit points and a cost of 3, someone would have to be crazy to choose Heavy for enything other than fluff. OK. I changed it to +8.

Posted a Google Doc with updated rules.

After posting the update, I realized that Heavy needed to go back down to +6 Hits and moved it back to a simple special. I realized you cannot make a decent mount with a special A/B unit because Fast, Heavy and Mount combined cost 7 points. And without one of those three specials you basically do not have an effective mount.

by **Twoy** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:08 pm

Wild Units
Wild Units pop with a probability of about 1 in 200 for any given hex each turn. Wild Units cannot become Natural Allies, but they can be captured in combat and turned using magic. Wild Units tend to croak within a couple of turns of popping because they are not able to acquire enough rations to keep themselves alive or they die in combat. (GMs may elect to only pop Wild Units when a Player-Side is searching for Wild Units either to turn or to level units.

Possible Wild Units

Spoiler: show

by **Twoy** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:51 am

Here are the final rules for my overhaul. There are a few areas that still need to be discussed/tested. Those areas are highlighted in red in the attached rules.
Addtional Explanation of Combat:
Assassination: Stacks with a leader may specifically target a specific unit in the back of a stack. The targeted unit gains the full defense of its stack. The targeting unit divides the damage result by four to determine the actual damage taken by the targeted unit.

Mixed Stacks: A stack comprised of ranged and melee units may attack with first the ranged attack followed by the melee attacks. Damage from ranged and melee are calculated separately; however, both types of attacks receive the full stack bonus and any leadership bonus.

New Erf rules version 0.34.
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B6CKjN ... NkMGRjZDY2

Edit: I came up with another half dozen changes over the weekend. Will post them today or tomorrow.

The rules I'm changing are:
1. Delete Motherlode rule (So the GM does not have to keep track of dozens of mines.)
2. Delete rule about Lumbermills running out of wood in 10 turns and converting the forest to plain.
3. Flying units get no terrain defense bonus except in High Mountains.
4. Removed castle defense stat and max units on walls.
5. Described how air defenses function.
6. Added that the Hadoken spells can be used as either ranged or melee.

by **paroikos** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:21 pm

I love most of the changes. Going to run a game with a few of my friends soon to see how we like it.

I do have one question. Dollamancers can fabricate items that give specials for a high amount of juice, but can they spread out those fabrications over several turns like normal magic items? I'm assuming so.

Also the rules on who can have what specials contradict themselves. I'm going with what it says in the unit descriptions, but in the specials section it is more generous.

EDIT: Another question:

Does each side have two seperate Scout and Knight units? One with each of the specials? Or do you choose when you're making your side one or the other?

And based on your sample turn(very helpful) cities can pop one type of unit per turn, correct? So if you're working on a warlord you can't be poping Pikers in the same city, is that right?

MOAR EDITS: Any ideas on pricing to buy scrolls from casters in the Magic Kingdom?

by **Twoy** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:00 am

Q: Dollamancers can fabricate items that give specials for a high amount of juice, but can they spread out those fabrications over several turns like normal magic items? I'm assuming so.
A: Yes. Over several turns.

Q: Also the rules on who can have what specials contradict themselves. I'm going with what it says in the unit descriptions, but in the specials section it is more generous.
A: Not sure what you mean, but only have a few minutes before work right now.

Q: Does each side have two seperate Scout and Knight units? One with each of the specials? Or do you choose when you're making your side one or the other?
A: One or the other. Not both.

Q: And based on your sample turn(very helpful) cities can pop one type of unit per turn, correct? So if you're working on a warlord you can't be poping Pikers in the same city, is that right?
A: Only one type of unit may be "worked on" in a city. For example, a Level 5 city could pop 12 pikers in 1 turn, but then could pop nothing else for the next four turns as they were working on popping a warlord.

Q: Any ideas on pricing to buy scrolls from casters in the Magic Kingdom?
A: There is not a stock of scrolls or magic items available in the Magic Kingdom. If you want to buy a scroll or Magic item, you need to contract for the caster to come to you and create the item/scroll. See Hiring a Caster on page 21.

Good luck on your game. Let me know how it goes.

by **paroikos** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:10 pm

I've got 4 players lined up and we've started working on sides, so it should start before too long.

Another question, and this one may be up for suggestions from anyone.

Predictamancer Revelations from their Pool of Fate. Any ideas for a GM on how to handle those should they come up?

Should a Predictamancer enter the game I was planning on asking each player to give me overall plans for their next few turns at the end of each of their turns. If anything seems important regarding the side with the Predictamancer I would have a chance every turn of it being revealed in a Revelation based on the amount of juice in the Pool of Fate. And speaking of which, does the juice remain in the Pool of Fate increasing every turn?

Thanks for all the answers.

by **Twoy** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:07 pm

Probably the most difficult to GM.

I would give them information that is of value, such as, Narnian dirtamancer will cast Yes We Can sometime within the next few turns to increase the size of the Narnia Capital to level 5. That way the "player" knows that 1(There exists a possible enemy named Narnia, 2) Narnia has a Dirtamancer, 3) Narnia probably has a level 4 capital. If Narnia does not actually do what you said they would od, then it is the fault of fate. Narnia could have done it.

It's realy okay to share some valuable "real-time" information about the player's enemies but couched in terms that allude to future events.

After the Revelation is given the Pool of Fate juice dissipates.

by **Silvan** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:05 pm

Hey found these rules to be very interesting. I have a couple questions though.

Do units with the simplemancy special have independent leadership like casters? Similar to Archons or do they need to spend points to get leadership by itself.

For spells such as Hadoken and other similar spells, do they deal the stated damage or the stated damage plus the casters attack.

What is the warlord patrol bonus? It is mentioned in the Moneymancy section but nowhere else.

For the stacking bonus, does the bonus get added to each unit? Or to the total stack's attack/defense.

Also I believe there is a typo in the level up section. It states that the unit gains 1 HP 1 Attack and 1 Damage. I think damage is supposed to be defense but I may be wrong.

Also as a random question, what do you think a trimancer link with a dittomancer/thinkamancer/turnamancer could reduce the entire side's production. I think at least 2/3rds.

by **Harry1991** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:23 am

I'm nothing to do with new erf development but I would say that link would double a sides turn, bearing in mind that the links we've seen so far could all be described as game breaking after all.

Personally I want to know what a three thinkamancer link could do... Maybe change the orders of enemy stacks entirely or perhaps give a warlord like level of command to all unled stacks in the side.

by **Silvan** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:15 pm

That would actually be a hilarious trimancer link. It really isn't any worse than ending a turn early. It would need enough juice to use that it isn't usable every turn though.

A trimancer link of only thinkamancers? I would think that would make those units essentially the arkendish. No need juice for thinkagrams able to hack thinkagrams unlimited range. Maybe some really high powered suggestions like telling a different side's ruler what to produce for the next couple turns.

by **BLANDCorporatio** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:29 pm

Before handling more esoteric suggestions, like what other critters to invent, how about we discuss some basic things (arguments hidden in spoiler tags):

1. "Pop an heir" is a useless action

Spoiler: show

2. Several Shockamancy spells are useless (to Shockamancers)

Spoiler: show

3. Popping a Warlord is nigh-useless

Spoiler: show

4. Resource points are nigh-useless

Spoiler: show

5. The game is too damn slow!

And I won't spoiler hide this one. It takes 5 turns or whatever to pop a mine. It takes 8 turns or whatever to pop a warlord. Do you think anyone will still be playing in month 3, which is when, due to slow turn-over rate, we'll get to have a second warlord?! Second warlord, yay. Now I have two people to send out for months at a time to build mines.

Be realistic. There's no way a human GM can manage a whole Erf sim in such a way to balance high turn-over rate, real-life commitments, and several players who have yet to post their orders. Think in these terms: two turns a week is the best you can hope for, so make it so that a lot can be done in two turns.

I've started playing two Erf-sims game, and watched a third. NONE survived to the point where players actually did something interesting like campaigns. I'm playing another Erf-sim, which I fear will go the same way. The speed issue must be fixed, pronto.

by **Harry1991** » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:31 pm

ISSUES ALREADY RAISED

on issue 5) sorry i've played, admined and designed similar sorts of play by post war/strategy games and our turn rate was set at 1 turn every 2 days. We continued these games for months if not years in some cases. It just revolves around making the game simpler and transparent so everyone can take a hand in running the game without needed to go to an admin every 5 seconds.

for example in one game, based in Asimov's Foundation universe, our admin was only needed really for running battle calculations (though I did on occasion run them for him cause i had the battle calculator), covert activities -which i guess here would be scouting - and research project approval.

The primary issue i see in terms of this game is that you start with nothing, meaning that to build a side you need the admin updating the map every turn with new towns, mines etc and need to spend the first 50 or so turns building yourself into a playable faction.

It wouldn't be so bad if you were given say 1 level 4 city, 3 level 3s and 4 levels 2s at the start of the game as well as being allowed to spend resources on a starting army.

On issues 1) and 3). The way to handle this IMO is to slash turn numbers dramatically. Say 10 turns for an heir, 5 for a warlord, 4 for a class D special, 3 for class C and 2 for class A/B and knights while stabbers,pikers, archers and scouts take 1 turn each. Having a level 5 city would then make it so an heir took 2 turns, a warlord took 1 turn and stabbers could be made at a rate of 5 per turn.

I know it isn't canon to the comics but for game play purposes it makes it a lot better.

finally i'm gonna address 4) (since i have no opinion on issue 2). Rather then having warlords build improvements why not list them as being part of the city and assign a schmuckers cost? example: Slaughter House (500 Schmuckers) - reduces the upkeep of all garrison units but 10%. Effect is boosted to 20% if the city/side has access to plains or grassland. Warlord bonus of 5%.

In the example the maximum bonus would be a 25% reduction but only if you devote time and effort to warlords for your side and conquering cities in strategic locations.

MY OWN ISSUES

the biggest issue i see with the game system is a lack of thought. Sorry if it offends but it looks like your sticking too closely to the comics, which means there are a lot of questions unanswered before you even begin, and we don't know if you can pop a city or if mathamacy works the way we think it does because it hasn't been explained yet in the comic.

Second issue is that warlord bonuses seem too small to me, if we take transilvito as an example there is no way we could take crap units and give them the equivalent attack score as knights using these rules where-as it seems entirely possible in erfworld.

New Erf Rules Overhaul

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