New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:56 am

HerbieRai wrote:Do they enact retroactivly? In other words, can I buy Mighty Blow X2 right now for my 2 AP, then when the hex is done I get an extra AP since the costs went down to .5?

Yes. You will get a refund for any AP you 'overpaid' if you buy them now.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:02 pm

Since we revised the XP rules, I think it's time to revise the Caster benefits as well, since all but one of them deal with alternate methods of gaining XP (which isn't really needed any more), so I'm looking for feedback on the following:

Healmancy: Caster can create a Potion for any Healmancy spell they know. Potions cost 8x the spell's casting cost in Juice. This cost can be paid for over multiple turns.
Luckamancy: Caster can create a Potion for any Luckamancy spell they know. Potions cost 8x the spell's casting cost in Juice. This cost can be paid for over multiple turns.
Flower Power: If the caster wishes, damage inflicted by Caster that would normally kill a target reduces the target to 1 Hit and Stuns the target for 2 rounds instead.
Croakamancy: Caster can extend their senses through any Uncroaked they create. Caster can delay Decay for up to 2 turns by paying the Uncroaked's Hits in Juice each turn. Decay occurs normally on the 3rd turn and cannot be prevented.
Shockamancy: Caster can create Juice Restoration Potions. Max Juice that the potion can restore is 4x Caster's level. It costs 8x Juice restored in order to create the potion. This cost can be paid for over multiple turns.

Thoughts?
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby Swodaems » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:05 pm

MarbitChow wrote:Healmancy: Caster can create a Potion for any Healmancy spell they know. Potions cost 8x the spell's casting cost in Juice. This cost can be paid for over multiple turns.
Does this work with ward spells? Does this work on the spells with more than one target? Could an uncroaked drinking a potion be healed?

MarbitChow wrote:Luckamancy: Caster can create a Potion for any Luckamancy spell they know. Potions cost 8x the spell's casting cost in Juice. This cost can be paid for over multiple turns.
But Luckamancers have spells that target enemies. What would drinking one of those do?

MarbitChow wrote:Flower Power: If the caster wishes, damage inflicted by Caster that would normally kill a target reduces the target to 1 Hit and Stuns the target for 2 rounds instead.
Are contructs and uncroaked still immune to these new flower power based stuns? (I noticed you have removed the juiceless permastun from the Shockamancer, only to give it to the florist with the odd condition of the target being required to be already nearly croaked. Did this happen because I wanted to use it on Trogdor?)

MarbitChow wrote:Croakamancy: Caster can extend their senses through any Uncroaked they create. Caster can delay Decay for up to 2 turns by paying the Uncroaked's Hits in Juice each turn. Decay occurs normally on the 3rd turn and cannot be prevented.
Is this 1 turn of decay every 3 turns or decay that proceeds normal after a 2 day grace period?

MarbitChow wrote:Shockamancy: Caster can create Juice Restoration Potions. Max Juice that the potion can restore is 4x Caster's level. It costs 8x Juice restored in order to create the potion. This cost can be paid for over multiple turns.

This is the ability to save 1 juice per turn per level and shove it into the croakamancer when he runs out. Can shockamancers still create air defense spells in addition to these potions?
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:41 pm

Swodaems wrote:Does this work with ward spells? Does this work on the spells with more than one target? Could an uncroaked drinking a potion be healed?
Yes, it works with Wards. Spells that work on more than one target would only affect the single drinker. Uncroaked cannot benefit from Healmancy; changing the delivery method does not change the restriction.

Swodaems wrote:But Luckamancers have spells that target enemies. What would drinking one of those do?
It would still affect the drinker, and thus wouldn't be very beneficial. You can only apply a potion to an incapacitated unit, so in unusual circumstances you could use this to 'poison' a unit you want to capture by making sure his next few rolls suck when he wakes up.

Swodaems wrote:Are contructs and uncroaked still immune to these new flower power based stuns?
Yes, it's still a stun effect.

Swodaems wrote:I noticed you have removed the juiceless permastun from the Shockamancer, only to give it to the florist with the odd condition of the target being required to be already nearly croaked. Did this happen because I wanted to use it on Trogdor?)
Not really. Permastun as a tactic would only apply in a very limited set of circumstances (boss fights - I forgot Blizzard's 1st rule of boss mobs: they're always immune to stunning), and Shockamancers have spells that guarantee stuns already. I'm also considering adding another low-level spell that just stuns for a low Juice cost.

The Flower Power ability is really just a mechanism that allows for a safer incapacitation that can also be used on non-heroic units. Basically, if they do, say 6 damage to a unit with 3 Hits left, they can choose to do only 2 damage and 2 turns of stun instead, making it easier to capture them. It's a 'peaceful' option.

Swodaems wrote:Is this 1 turn of decay every 3 turns or decay that proceeds normal after a 2 day grace period?

1 turn of Decay / 3 turns, as long as the caster pays the upkeep on each turn (except every 3rd).

Swodaems wrote:This is the ability to save 1 juice per turn per level and shove it into the croakamancer when he runs out.

Higher-level shockamancy starts using up considerably more juice. Juice is beneficial to all casters, although moreso to croakamancers, obviously. A healmancer's ability won't be used primarily by them, either.

Swodaems wrote:Can shockamancers still create air defense spells in addition to these potions?

Yes. This is a function of the tower, however, and not a "class ability" as such.

-----

Another possibility is to eliminate special abilities altogether and just add the caster-specific abilities Scribe and Alchemist for 1 AP each, which would allow you to create scrolls and potions for any spell you can cast. A third is to just disregard 'special abilities' completely - they were only introduced to make it possible for non-shockamancers to be able to level, and that's no longer an issue.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby WaterMonkey314 » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:43 pm

MarbitChow wrote:Since we revised the XP rules, I think it's time to revise the Caster benefits as well, since all but one of them deal with alternate methods of gaining XP (which isn't really needed any more), so I'm looking for feedback on the following:

Healmancy: Caster can create a Potion for any Healmancy spell they know. Potions cost 8x the spell's casting cost in Juice. This cost can be paid for over multiple turns.


Do the "multiple turns" have to be specified ahead of time if I choose to exercise that option? (That is, if elves will attack somewhere from 3 to 5 turns from now, do I need to make a call on when I think I need to have all my potions done by? Or can I retroactively say that I had 3 turns idle and spent 3 x daily juice allotment making items?
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:58 pm

WaterMonkey314 wrote:Do the "multiple turns" have to be specified ahead of time if I choose to exercise that option? (That is, if elves will attack somewhere from 3 to 5 turns from now, do I need to make a call on when I think I need to have all my potions done by? Or can I retroactively say that I had 3 turns idle and spent 3 x daily juice allotment making items?
Either way is ok by me, honestly. If three turns pass and the attack occurs, as part of the preparation, you can state how you spent that previous time. Down-time turns (between fights) are pretty relaxed.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:44 pm

Edit : I've updated the rules and re-posted them again at the end of this thread, so I'm just deleting this to keep things cleaner.
Last edited by MarbitChow on Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby Lord of Monies » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:29 pm

What happened to the bit about bodyguards gaining 0.1 xp for each point of damage taken instead of their charge? I thought that was put in to counteract the fact that they wouldn't be on the front-lines often, so they gain xp doing their Duty the way they know best.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby 0beron » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:37 pm

Yeah and what about the Leadership "sub-ability" that allowed you to apply Support and Coordinate to any unit in your stack rather than just adjacent?
EDIT: it was called "Empathetic Leadership"

EDITEDIT: Ah I see in your intro now that you removed it because it was fairly useless, perhaps could it get a buff instead? Allow it to apply to all allied units in your stack as long as they're attacking the same enemy as you are?
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:32 pm

Lord of Monies wrote:What happened to the bit about bodyguards gaining 0.1 xp for each point of damage taken instead of their charge? I thought that was put in to counteract the fact that they wouldn't be on the front-lines often, so they gain xp doing their Duty the way they know best.


Since all units share experience equally at the end of the combat now, all of the mechanisms that previously allowed units to get non-combat XP (other than the leadership bonus) have been eliminated. I'm still going back and forth on the leadership bonus one, but odds are good that it will probably get cut as well; it's already an incredibly useful ability, so a minor XP nerf isn't horrible.

0beron wrote:Yeah and what about the Leadership "sub-ability" that allowed you to apply Support and Coordinate to any unit in your stack rather than just adjacent?
EDIT: it was called "Empathetic Leadership"

It wasn't useful enough to justify the cost, even at 0.5 AP. Leadership is already one of the two most useful abilities that can be purchased, and doesn't really need any additional abilities.

The Empathic Leadership removal was mentioned in the text, but I forgot to note the Bodyguard XP clean-up as well. All of the casters (other than the Shockamancer) had their ability to generate class-specific XP removed; the Bodyguard ability was removed for the same reason. Note that the requirements for Bodyguard are now cheaper in the new rules, so while Casters got 'bonus abilities' for their specific discipline, bodyguards freed up a full additional AP instead.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby 0beron » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:37 pm

MarbitChow wrote:
0beron wrote:"Empathetic Leadership"

It wasn't useful enough to justify the cost, even at 0.5 AP. Leadership is already one of the two most useful abilities that can be purchased, and doesn't really need any additional abilities.

Yeah fair point, I liked it partially from a flavor perspective. I'm not sure if you saw my "editedit" suggestion that maybe it apply a bonus to EVERY unit in your stack that targets the same enemy as you (although in that case +3 might be a bit steep, I'd be happy with +2 or even 1). Just a thought.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby Lord of Monies » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:40 pm

Oh, ok, exp is given equally. Must have missed that. If that's the case then it's a fair decision, else bodyguards would then gain extra on top which would become a ton in the long run. Did notice the extra AP from it, and thankful for that. Means I can potentially get everything bodyguard related by lvl 2, then spend every level after boosting my stats.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:48 pm

0beron wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:
0beron wrote:"Empathetic Leadership"

It wasn't useful enough to justify the cost, even at 0.5 AP. Leadership is already one of the two most useful abilities that can be purchased, and doesn't really need any additional abilities.

Yeah fair point, I liked it partially from a flavor perspective. I'm not sure if you saw my "editedit" suggestion that maybe it apply a bonus to EVERY unit in your stack that targets the same enemy as you (although in that case +3 might be a bit steep, I'd be happy with +2 or even 1). Just a thought.

Leadership is already overpowered. It likely won't be getting any more bonuses.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby Lord of Monies » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:01 pm

So out of curiosity, any ideas when the next scenario will begin? No rush or anything, just wondering.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:22 pm

They're probably on their last turn, which should run tonight (assuming I don't get kept late at work again). After that, the new characters can be introduced, so end of the week is reasonable.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby Lord of Monies » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:37 pm

Awesome, looking forward to it then!
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:50 pm

EDIT: Once again, updated the rules and moved them to the end of the thread.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby Werebiscuit » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:51 am

MarbitChow wrote:Darkness Rising - Rules (v1.1 - Draft)
[Requires Might Blow x3] Reckless Assault (1 AP) - Get Combat +5 and Defense -3 for the round. This ability cannot be used if Defense would be reduced below 1.
[Requires Block x3] Shield Mastery (1 AP) - Get Defense +5 and Combat -3 for the round. This ability cannot be used if Combat would be reduced below 1.


I'm not sure I quite get these abilities. Are they something that is permanent as in Well Armed or Beefy for example ? Or can they be chosen each round like modifiers, for example Block ?

The way they read is as modifiers but if you already have Block x3 which gives Def+9 and Com -6 for the round, why would you buy something lesser when you can apply Block x2 which gives similar modifiers or even just Block if you're worried about the combat loss. In my reading of the rules you can't apply 2 modifiers during a combat round so they don't add anything ...only replace, at cost.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby MarbitChow » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:44 am

Werebiscuit wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:Darkness Rising - Rules (v1.1 - Draft)
[Requires Might Blow x3] Reckless Assault (1 AP) - Get Combat +5 and Defense -3 for the round. This ability cannot be used if Defense would be reduced below 1.
[Requires Block x3] Shield Mastery (1 AP) - Get Defense +5 and Combat -3 for the round. This ability cannot be used if Combat would be reduced below 1.


I'm not sure I quite get these abilities. Are they something that is permanent as in Well Armed or Beefy for example ? Or can they be chosen each round like modifiers, for example Block ?

The way they read is as modifiers but if you already have Block x3 which gives Def+9 and Com -6 for the round, why would you buy something lesser when you can apply Block x2 which gives similar modifiers or even just Block if you're worried about the combat loss. In my reading of the rules you can't apply 2 modifiers during a combat round so they don't add anything ...only replace, at cost.

They behave like modifiers that you select every round. You could apply Block x3 and Shield Mastery to get Defense +14 and Combat -9, assuming you've got at least a 10 combat. Also, Reckless Assault's modifier CAN be used against structures, so units with the mightiest of blows can start cracking the walls. But you need to max out block/mighty blow before taking them, and they can only be taken once.

Note that nothing prevents you from mixing and matching attack modifiers now, so you can combine Might Blow and Block at the same time to essentially get a permanent net +1/+1 for 1 AP. I want to allow melee types to create a build where they could optimize their combat and defense each turn if they wanted to.
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Re: New Erfworld Campaign - "Darkness Rising" - Rules

Postby 0beron » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:20 am

I noticed the change to Leadership...but I'm a bit confused how stacks work so I just want clarification....isn't everyone who is on your side in the battle in your stack? (provided there are only 8 of you)
And do we ever have more than 8 units fighting together...? I haven't played the game so I'm not sure, but adding the ability to restack units seems useless :/
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