Darkness Rising

[MarbitChow]

I would like to create 2 backup dancers. A warrior and a spearman with the dancefighting special, but no other spare ap. Could I custom pop them like that, or would I need to pop them as basic or basic garrison units?)

You would need to pop them as basic units. They would have 2 AP banked.

(MarbitChow, exactly how far does the current net extend? Could our units see how much move the archons had left before ending turn? )

You can only see units' stats, not their remaining move. You're currently covering a net 16 hexes out. Note that you cannot see stats through a thinkagram, so you won't actually be able to see the stats of the units until you can view them with your own eyes (typically as they line up at the hex border). The scouts can convey general troop knowledge : low level (1-3), mid level (4-6), high level (7+). Other than the unit at the front of the column, all units in the column are low-level. The unit on the mount is mid-level. Inhuman units are more difficult to determine, but do not typically have levels.

any 8 or higher move units the King is willing to send us can already reach Dis in time if they leave from Tenebris now.)

The king has been popping primarily garrison units. He is still concerned about the possibility of a decapitation strike. He'll let you pop whatever units you want as long as they can reach you in time for the next few turns, but after that, he'll want to go back to reinforcing the capital. (It still feels very under-defended to him.)

[Werebiscuit]

I think if we're going to go the "mass produce units" path, then we should focus on Archers instead. They can pick off the key targets such as leadership, heal/Archon, and siege. Then they can attack the non-siege with little reprisal.

OOC The trouble with a mass produced archer is that it could not damage a unit like Rolf or Yuri. Correction it would hit Yuri for 1 damage on a double 6 and wouldn't be able to touch Rolf if he blocked. It would be best to see their defence stats before deciding on the mass produced route. We won't be able to do that for at least a turn yet which leaves us looking at a specific unit to replace a gap this turn.

NOTE, for reference our level 2 warriors have 11 defence that means a mass produced archer would be doing 3 damage to those on avarage /OOC

[MarbitChow]

We won't be able to do that for at least a turn yet which leaves us looking at a specific unit to replace a gap this turn.

See above - you won't be able to see their defensive stats at all until they're lined up outside the hex, or you send a sacrificial uncroaked into the hex that Bill can view through. Stats can only be seen by commanders (leadership or caster).

[Werebiscuit]

We won't be able to do that for at least a turn yet which leaves us looking at a specific unit to replace a gap this turn.

See above - you won't be able to see their defensive stats at all until they're lined up outside the hex, or you send a sacrificial uncroaked into the hex that Bill can view through. Stats can only be seen by commanders (leadership or caster).

Noted : That's why I added the "at least"

[ETheBoyce]

it's not the heavys I'm concerned with, it's the air units and the enemy archers

[Werebiscuit]

(I would like to create 2 backup dancers. A warrior and a spearman with the dancefighting special, but no other spare ap. Could I custom pop them like that, or would I need to pop them as basic or basic garrison units?) I'd prefer to create units with roles instead of cannon fodder, but we could go either way.

OOC Please note we already have a spare dancing spearmen as we already have 8 and we will need to add a leadership unit to the stack. In fact if we want to give the leader a bodyguard we have 2 spare spearmen. The same is not true of the level 2 and 1 warrior stacks but if we add Rolf and Yuri to the level 2 stack (all heavies) we've almost maxed out that stack and have a leader and bodyguard. Only problem is we cannot pop another level 2.

We are short of a level 1 even with a leader and body guard so if we want spares we need to pop 2 level 1s. We also need 2 heavies to man the catapults if we are going to put a heavy stack in the field so i'm not even sure we should do that ( put a heavy stack in the field, I mean). However if we dont we then have spare heavies. /OOC

[Werebiscuit]

it's not the heavys I'm concerned with, it's the air units and the enemy archers

We don't know what their def stats are only their possible levels (1-3). Even a vanilla archer at level 2 could be def 8 easily. Def 11 if dancing and thats before leadership bonuses

[The Colonel]

We do need heavies, THE BALISTA'S MUST BE MANNED!

[ETheBoyce]

We have Rolf and Yuri for that since the Ballista take combat score into account it makes the most sense for them to man them

[MarbitChow]

OOC With 9 possible stacks there is going to be more than one leader, looks like one warlord but SHE will NOT be the only leader

Just as an aside : Elven archer units are both male and female. Elves are kind-of androgynous that way. But in this case, Werebiscuit is correct. (Although LTDave insisted that the archer units were female, they kinda look like they've got pecs to me, so I've made an effort to make the female units more clearly female.)

Also, I've added a section to the Reference thread that has links to important posts within this thread. (It's getting to the point where finding information is somewhat difficult. ) If you have other posts you'd like to see in that list, let me know and I'll add them in.

[Swodaems]

I would like to create 2 backup dancers. A warrior and a spearman with the dancefighting special, but no other spare ap. Could I custom pop them like that, or would I need to pop them as basic or basic garrison units?)

You would need to pop them as basic units. They would have 2 AP banked.

By basic, do you mean the 4 UP basic option or do you mean either the 4 UP basic or the 2 UP basic garrison options would work?

You're currently covering a net 16 hexes out.
The king has been popping primarily garrison units. He is still concerned about the possibility of a decapitation strike. He'll let you pop whatever units you want as long as they can reach you in time for the next few turns, but after that, he'll want to go back to reinforcing the capital. (It still feels very under-defended to him.)

(Is that 16 hexes out with just 8 imps or are you including the 4 I wanted to pop at the start of turn 6?) With just 8 imps being used to watch an 816 hex area (excluding the Dis city hex), that means each individual imp is covering a 102 hex area.

I tell the king one of the best options he has for capital defense is early detection of attacks so that he can recall troops from Dis to help. After the battle at Dis, I suggest he pop 2 full turns' worth of the capital's production of imps. With 32 imps each covering a 102 hex area, this will allow him to detect attacks from roughly 32 hexes away. (And expose any valuable ruins hexes near the capital to us.)

Then, with a couple more balrugs, we would have the option of ferrying in the higher level units of my force to aid in the defense.

[MarbitChow]

By basic, do you mean the 4 UP basic option or do you mean either the 4 UP basic or the 2 UP basic garrison options would work?

Either would work. The only difference between a basic unit and a basic garrison unit is the overland move stat.

With just 8 imps being used to watch an 816 hex area (excluding the Dis city hex), that means each individual imp is covering a 102 hex area.

It's just the 8 imps. Unless they are veiled or concealed, units can often be spotted from the next hex over. In addition, terrain eliminates the need to check a lot of areas. Patrols will concentrate on likely areas of approach, and the mountains remove a lot that needs to be checked. For the next scenario, you've already got pretty much all the information you're going to get until it starts, so I'm assuming everything that pops from now on is military.

But mostly, you'll never actually see a hex map, because overland movement in this game is primarily a flavor rather than an actual element. I don't intend to sweat the details.

[Werebiscuit]

We have Rolf and Yuri for that since the Ballista take combat score into account it makes the most sense for them to man them

That is a good point but with appropriate leadership the level 2 heavies would get very close to Yuri in terms of combat (11 + dance fighting + leadership). Neither Yuri or Rolf have dance fighting but their higher hits might make a difference out there in the battlefielfd. At the ballistae the def gained from the walls would protect the level 2's, they would have no such protection on the battlefield.

It is a difficult call to make would their combat & def be more useful on the battlefield accompanied by their greater hits? Their hits are almost wasted if they man the ballistae. However as I'm not commanding it's not my call to make. I can only point out the options.

[Swodaems]

By basic, do you mean the 4 UP basic option or do you mean either the 4 UP basic or the 2 UP basic garrison options would work?

Either would work. The only difference between a basic unit and a basic garrison unit is the overland move stat.

Team, I suggest that we dedicate ourselves to creating 8 basic garrison units, 2 per turn for turns 6,7,8,&9. These 8 units won't be able to travel with us after the battle like the rest of the units will, but they'll be useful units for the next scenario. I'm thinking that these 8 should include at least 2 dancing units, a heavy or 2, and maybe a lvl 1 garrison warlord.

With just 8 imps being used to watch an 816 hex area (excluding the Dis city hex), that means each individual imp is covering a 102 hex area.

It's just the 8 imps. Unless they are veiled or concealed, units can often be spotted from the next hex over. In addition, terrain eliminates the need to check a lot of areas. Patrols will concentrate on likely areas of approach, and the mountains remove a lot that needs to be checked.

Nice to know, but unless the king already has a bunch of imps to patrol the area around the capital, my advice to him about popping 32 of them after the Battle of Dis still stands.

We have Rolf and Yuri for that since the Ballista take combat score into account it makes the most sense for them to man them

How do ballista interact with characters that would normally have multiple attack/fire actions? Would Rolf and Yuri be able to fire them twice? What about William and Cupid?

[Werebiscuit]

Team, I suggest that we dedicate ourselves to creating 8 basic garrison units, 2 per turn for turns 6,7,8,&9. These 8 units won't be able to travel with us after the battle like the rest of the units will, but they'll be useful units for the next scenario. I'm thinking that these 8 should include at least 2 dancing units, a heavy or 2, and maybe a lvl 1 garrison warlord.

We have Rolf and Yuri for that since the Ballista take combat score into account it makes the most sense for them to man them

How do ballista interact with characters that would normally have multiple attack/fire actions? Would Rolf and Yuri be able to fire them twice? What about William and Cupid?

I'm in agreement about popping garrison units. Exactly what we pop should wait till the answer to your second question but right now I'd agree with/suggest at least 1 warlord & 1 bodyguard type. If the ballistae are a waste of the characters second attacks then we should pop heavies to man them. If not, then Will would make a devastating ballista captain. Having only 2 fliers Ii'm not sure we should put them aloft till we've cleared the enemy archers and fliers so Cupid would be a decent second captain but Rolf would certainly be better.

[MarbitChow]

Nice to know, but unless the king already has a bunch of imps to patrol the area around the capital, my advice to him about popping 32 of them after the Battle of Dis still stands.

Noted. I was primarily referring to the imps popping at Dis City.

How do ballista interact with characters that would normally have multiple attack/fire actions? Would Rolf and Yuri be able to fire them twice? What about William and Cupid?

I was going to say that Rolf and Yuri could only fire once per turn, and Cupid's and William's Quick-shots would be for 2d6 only. Having re-read the basic attack rules, however, additional attack rules don't explicitly state that the previous attack has to be of the same class.

Therefore, Rolf and Yuri can fire the ballista twice each round, but it has to be the same target both times, while Cupid and William can fire it twice at any target.

Responses will be slow for the next few days as I'll be traveling to a client's site again this week, so I'd appreciate it if you all could work together and hash out a single set of instructions for all the characters over the next five turns (in case the elves don't immediately attack on the 4th turn).

[Swodaems]

I have a new plan. A great, terrible, and horrifyingly awesome plan.

We need to get a loan.

One thing we could do to help us win this battle is upgrade Dis to lvl 4. The problem with this idea is that we only have about 6000 in the treasury and we would need 16000 to upgrade the city. We have a steady income of ~1000 per turn, meaning that we would have to wait 10 turns before we could upgrade.

This is where the loan comes into play. If we borrow 10000 to upgrade the city now, we can pay it off gradually with our income over the coming turns.

The problem is finding a lender. We could try finding a moneymancer in the magic kingdom willing to loan to us. (The good thing about turning Junetta is that we now have someone more presentable than T. Coil to send into the magic kingdom.) However, the problem with that idea is that there simply may not be anyone credible willing to do business with our side.

One option for a lender is Charlie. He may be more willing to enter into a loan agreement agreement with us than anybody else. This is because we have a couple items to offer up as collateral that Charlie will want: My bracer and Creperum's crown. He won't want them for personal use, he'll want them so that we don't sell them to anybody. (In the comic, Charlie charges 2000+ for a twoway thinkagram. If we sold the Bracer and Crown to a very large and regular customer of Charlie's, then Charlie could lose over 14000 per turn in income.)

Yes, you have read my words right. I am saying if we can't get into debt with a respectable person, then we should get into debt with a figure known for his unscrupulous behavior who may have monetary incentive to break our deal. Possibly in an extremely underhanded fashion. I suggest that we present the idea to Charlie as "you give us generous terms on a loan and our small side doesn't have to sell our valuable item and artifact to some bigger side before our alliance contract wears off." That way we'll either get a loan or a buy offer that is certain to be better than anything else we could get.

[MarbitChow]

In the comic, Charlie charges 2000+ for a twoway thinkagram. If we sold the Bracer and Crown to a very large and regular customer of Charlie's, then Charlie could lose over 14000 per turn in income.

Keep in mind that it is highly unlike that there is a side that is spending 14,000 / turn on thinkagrams. If they needed the communication that much, they would have hired a thinkamancer long ago for substantially less.
Charlie's volume almost certainly comes from 100s (or thousands?) of sides each using his services once every few turns or so.

You may be able to sell the bracer for a significant amount directly, but it will take many turns to find a buyer. King Creperum will not allow you to risk losing the Crown, however. Any plan that involves the crown, either for sale or as collateral, is a no-go, and not up for debate.

[Swodaems]

You may be able to sell the bracer for a significant amount directly, but it will take many turns to find a buyer.

We could probably find a buyer quicker depending on how badly we're willing to be ripped off.

For now we should have Junetta and T. Coil check to see if there are any moneymancers out there willing to offer Tenebris a loan without collateral or who will let us still use the item while offering it up as collateral.

If that doesn't work, they'll move on to the pawn brokers.

[ETheBoyce]

I don't think upgrading Dis City before the next battle is really that important