Darkness Rising

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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby MarbitChow » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:27 am

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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby ETheBoyce » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:57 am

I've got a better idea than opening the gate, we don't open the gate. Armolad plans to take the city not lose the fight, so why should she knock it down to a level 2 if she's trying to take it from us?
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby 0beron » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:48 am

ETheBoyce wrote:Armolad plans to take the city not lose the fight, so why should she knock it down to a level 2 if she's trying to take it from us?
Ooooooh I don't know...perhaps because our Chief Warlord pissed off her King and has made him determined to squash us like a bug?

All jokes and jabs aside though, can we please agree that we are as prepared as we can be? There is only so much strategy we can discuss using hypothetical plans, and I feel like we have done enough of that to be prepared for whatever actually happens. Let's just start with the Gates closed but unbarred, and see what the enemy does. I don't think waiting an extra round is going to be such a terrible thing, especially not if we focus our attention on the Gumps from Range, if they do indeed get sent in first. So, take a look at my suggestion for how we stack, offer any comments and place ourselves in specific squares, and start already!
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:14 am

ETheBoyce wrote:I've got a better idea than opening the gate, we don't open the gate. Armolad plans to take the city not lose the fight, so why should she knock it down to a level 2 if she's trying to take it from us?


I must admit that 'Gate closed' would be my preferred option but it actually forces Armolad to attack the gates or the towers to gain entrance as they're weaker than the walls. Attacking the towers also has the added benefit of destroying the ballistae which will cause her side so much damage. She may not want to reduce the city level but sometimes you have to scrap the good to get rid of the bad and besides Sunnydale was only level 2 when the elves lost it so really they would be getting back what they lost.

If we don't open the gate then we need to have our melee in the field to be effective...however if they're there they are in LOS of the elven archery. They will take big losses by taking hits from siege and elven archery. They can and will interfere with the siege movement which gives our ranged a chance to deal with their archery as it enters the hex but we cannot hope to take out all their archery in one turn. Giving their remaining archery and siege the chance to concentrate on our melee.

Tod is trying to stop melee losses by having their siege concentrate on the city and our ranged take out most of their archery (I think) before we put melee in the field. So the gates need to deny LOS then open quickly on demand.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby The Colonel » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:46 am

Gate closed but unbarred sounds good.

Hell, off the siege and archery, leave the gate cracked open, to show them that it's unbarred.
Last edited by The Colonel on Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:54 am

0beron wrote:Ah ok, yeah I sympathize....people need to start finalizing stuff. Here is a suggestion of where to put people (each list is stacked together), just to get the ball rolling:
Left Tower
  • Tod (mounted)
  • T. Coil (mounted)
  • Vinny
  • Junetta
  • Brick
  • A Heavy for the Balista
Right Tower
  • Yuri
  • William
  • Rolf
  • Triage
  • 2 Bodyguard?
  • Cupid & other Flier(stacked but not on the tower)
Ground Force
Led by Wanderus, stack as you guys see fit.
Colonel stacks with Wanderus or his horde, depending on the situation, and will climb the Right Tower when he needs RLOS.

This puts our most valuable/weak units with Tod to get the highest bonus, next most valuable units with our 2nd best leadership, and puts expendable units on the ground.


For best attack/damage to take down the siege as fast as possible we would want Rolf, T coil, Will and Cupid stacked with Tod. Unfortunately Yuri cannot stack with Tod then have his own stack so if we want Yuri to command (and I think we need him to do that) he cannot have Tod's bonus and must depend on his own lower bonus. Rolf should also command a ballista so should not be on the same tower as Yuri anyway.

Tod's Stack Tod, Will, Rolf, Cupid, T Coil (mounted), Brick, Vinny, Royal guard

Yuri's stack Yuri & the 7 Garrison archers

Wandreus Stack Wandreus & 7 zed archers

Bills Horde Bill ( mounted) 9 Skeleton archers, 5 Uncroaked Marbits and skeleton ( marbits & Skeleton start in c11, g11 k11 o11 s11 & w11 on the field)

Archer stack 1st lvl commander (mounted) 5 remaining zed archers & Junettaa & Triage

Melee stack 1 1st lvl commander (mounted) 5 heavies & 2 bodyguards
Melee stack 2 1st lvl commander (mounted) 5 warriors, Royal guard & remaining bodyguard

This leaves the spearmen and 3 warriors plus the heck pups unled... oh and we still have a mount to distribute
Last edited by Werebiscuit on Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:03 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby 0beron » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:00 am

I see a few small problems:
~Tod's stack has 9 units (assuming the Mount is also stacked....can someone ride a mount and be stacked while their Mount is not? If so that'd be awesome)
~I don't see Junetta stacked anywhere.
~The other Flier is unaccounted for

Other than these hickups, I like this plan.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby MarbitChow » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:07 am

0beron wrote:can someone ride a mount and be stacked while their Mount is not? If so that'd be awesome)
Under the current implementation of the rules, mount and rider are not required to be in the same stack. (I like it when players exploit rules loopholes, so I don't fix them mid-scenario. We do rules updates after each major scenario to introduce new features after we've play-tested the current rules a bit. This will *probably* be fixed in the next update.)
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:08 am

0beron wrote:I see a few small problems:
~Tod's stack has 9 units (assuming the Mount is also stacked....can someone ride a mount and be stacked while their Mount is not? If so that'd be awesome)
~I don't see Junetta stacked anywhere.
~The other Flier is unaccounted for

Other than these hickups, I like this plan.



I assumed as units do not have to be in the same group to be stacked that all mounts were unstacked. I forgot about Junetta but added her in. The dark flier should join the archery stack at the expense of Junetta or Triage ( who should be out of RLOS anyway)
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby 0beron » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:12 am

I think the Flier should be where he can get the best possible bonus, since I assume he's better than even the Garrison Archers in Yuri's stack? If so, I'd put him there, and move the displaced Archer to the ground Archer stack. I would leave Triage unstacked, since he is pure heal whereas Junetta has Flower Power, so she may need to go into combat RLOS.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:20 am

0beron wrote:I think the Flier should be where he can get the best possible bonus, since I assume he's better than even the Garrison Archers in Yuri's stack? If so, I'd put him there, and move the displaced Archer to the ground Archer stack. I would leave Triage unstacked, since he is pure heal whereas Junetta has Flower Power, so she may need to go into combat RLOS.


Comet : (DF-8) Dark Flier {Level 1, 0 XP} [ 4 Combat / 4 Defense / 8 Hits. Fire. Special: Fly] (Ward-16)

Abe : Garrison Archer {Level 1, 0 XP} [ 7 Combat / 3 Defense / 18 Hits / 8 {8} Move. Fire. Specials: Dance Fighting, Beefy] (Ward-16)
Yuri got the best archers

Oh yeah and the final mount... Vinny and Tod can arm wrestle for it :twisted:
Last edited by Werebiscuit on Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby 0beron » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:22 am

OH, well then screw that haha, put him stacked with the ground archers, the Garrison Archers are way better.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:42 am

We have a garrison warrior ( with leadership, no less !) that I did not know about so he can lead the archer stack and the 1st level commander can now lead a further melee stack giving us
Tod's Stack... Tod, Will, Rolf, Cupid, T Coil (mounted), Brick, Vinny, Royal guard

Yuri's stack... Yuri & the 7 Garrison archers

Wandreus Stack... Wandreus & 7 zed archers

Bills Horde... Bill ( mounted) 9 Skeleton archers, 5 Uncroaked Marbits and skeleton ( marbits & Skeleton start in c11, g11 k11 o11 s11 & w11 on the field)

Archer stack... Garrison warrior 5 remaining zed archers & Junetta & Comet (flier)

Melee stack 1... 1st lvl commander (mounted) 5 heavies & 2 bodyguards
Melee stack 2... 1st lvl commander (mounted) 5 warriors,& remaining bodyguard
Melee stack 3... 1st lvl commander (mounted) heck pups & royal bodyguard
This leaves the spearmen unled... oh and we still have a mount to distribute
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Lord of Monies » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:55 am

For the purposes of ensuring our chief warlord bonus stays alive as long as possible and without lots of attention needed to keep him alive, I suggest the last mount go to him. They'll be targetting leadership just like we will be, so best make sure our best form of leadership has a nice mount to protect him.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby ETheBoyce » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:18 pm

I think we should have Junetta in Tod's stack dropping Brick, who should be out of LOS for any enemy but the fliers, as Junettta will be blasting those fliers out of the skies and she has a low combat score. I think the last mount should actually go to Vinny or Junetta as they will be potential flier targets, Tod should probably be out of LOS until we open the gates or the enemy breaks a wall/tower/the gate
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Swodaems » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:08 pm

I have a few thoughts & suggestions about placement and stacks:

I think it would be easier to place everyone if we kicked everyone off the towers but the 2 ballista captains, the 4 casters I include in the faerie fight plan (that means no T. Coil on the towertop*), the 7 garrison archers I include in that plan, and a few brickbats and bodyguards. (*Unlike the comic, the only bonus a caster gets in this game from being on the towertop is increased protection from fliers and access to the tower's spells and energy to use against fliers. We're planning on using delayed actions to down most of the fliers before they can fire, so the protection bit shouldn't matter much. T. Coil is likely going to be ground force blasting, which has to be done from his own juice, so he doesn't need access to the energy either. If he is mounted, we could save a lot of space by moving him to the wall instead. His mounted casted/dodging idea will work better with the increased space on the wall and he'll have the exact same defensive bonuses as before against ground troops.)

Of the 32 spaces on the towertop, only 16 aren't in the front 2 rows. The 2 ballista captains have to be in the front 2 rows, so those 16 spots are going to the rest of the units we can put there. With 4 casters (sans mounts) and 7 garrison archers, we've filled 11 of those 16 spots. 2,3,or 4 spots go to brickbats. (Yes, they could be flying a square off of the tower, but that would limit the number of people they can protect. As part of the formation on the tower they'll have more units adjacent to them.) The remaining spots can go to bodyguards. (Note, we may be able to arrange for the casters to run up the tower after the enemy archers can fire, but before the faeries enter.)

On the wall, we'll have T. Coil (mounted and starting out of RLOS), Bill's Skele archers (right up on the edge of the wall), Will, Cupid, Comet and the zeds (May be able to start out of RLOS or right behind the Skele archers).

The rest of the force is melee. I'm still favoring keeping the melee inside at the start as opposed to keeping them outside, but I would like a few more questions answered before setting down positions for them.
(MarbitChow, what squares will an enemy on the outside be able to see thru an open or partially open door? (Can I just do the "draw a straight line, center to center" test to figure it out myself?) If they haven't seen a unit type, will they act as if it doesn't exist? With the new partial door opening rules, how long does it take to get from 3/4s open to fully open?)

As far as stacks for the first round go: I'm thinking that I stack with Will, Rolf, Cupid, Vinny, T. Coil, Junetta, and Triage.
Yuri gets Brick and 6 of the Zed archers.
Wandereus get the Garrison archers. (They have dance-fighting and so does he after being turned. Yuri and Wandereus will both give +3 to these 7, but Wandereus also gives an additional +1 for filling in the 8th slot in the dance troupe.)
Bill will be with his hoard.
If the melee is outside, the Garrison warlord leads the remaining 6 zeds and comet. The level 2 warlords fill their stacks with the dancing linemen.
If the melee in inside, one of the lvl 2 warlords leads Comet and the remaining zeds. The other warlords won't matter much, because they won't be part of the first round. (We do have to make sure that any of the units the enemy can target thru the potentially opening door are well bonused.)

Our ranged units should have orders to prioritize fire on either unguarded archery, unguarded seige, or unguarded leadership. The enemy has 16 bodyguard units, but they'll have to protect 16 walking archers, 8 gumptons, 4 walking warlords, and 1 mounted archer warlord. There will be unguarded targets to hit. With my stacks, (and excluding the faerie fight garrison archers), in the first round we'll have 9 shots from 16 (with bonuses) com skele archers, 6 shots from 15 com zeds stacked with Yuri, 6 shots from 13 or 14 com zeds stacked with either a level 1 warlord or a level 2, 2 shots each from Will (41 effective com with bonuses) and Cupid (27 com), and a single 7 or 8 com shot from Comet. In the second round, We can add 3 16 com shots and 4 19 com shots to that list. (We may also have them in the first round if the faeries hold off on entering the hex until the second round, in which case the garrison archers have orders to burn their delayed actions by firing on the ground force at Com=2 on round 1. Better to use then to lose and the casters should still be able to take 8 or 9 faeries out with delayed actions before they can fire if the faeries see this as an invite to come in on Com =1.)

(Note: I've thought of another way to protect the towers from seige. We could try and make a deal with Armolad. Something along the lines of, "Hey Armolad, this used to be a dinky level 2 city of your side. Now it is a valuable level 3 that pops unit types your side doesn't have access to. How about you agree not to try and knock the towers down, and I agree to try and take you alive?" Provides both carrot and stick as incentives to not let the gumptons wail on the towers.)
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby The Colonel » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:30 pm

Give it a shot. Then proceed to kill her?

We still cannot afford her bonus on the field. If we fell her, Do I uncroak her? I can add her to the horde?
Last edited by The Colonel on Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby MarbitChow » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:35 pm

Swodaems wrote:(MarbitChow, what squares will an enemy on the outside be able to see thru an open or partially open door? (Can I just do the "draw a straight line, center to center" test to figure it out myself?)
Straight-line test will work, yes. Fliers can only see the 1st 2 rows inside, even if the door is fully open.
Swodaems wrote:If they haven't seen a unit type, will they act as if it doesn't exist?
The elves will not intentionally use tactics that would be more effective against units that they're not aware of yet. Right now, that's just the Heck Pups, I believe. They won't take special precautions against those (such as having archers hold actions specifically for that unit type).
Swodaems wrote:With the new partial door opening rules, how long does it take to get from 3/4s open to fully open?)
1/4 of a round, which is determined my the max combat value. In this case, that's Will's by a large margin, I believe. Since no one else comes close, I'm okay with treating his combat as if it were on Phase 20 instead of 34, since the next highest is 18. So, 5 phases to fully open from 3/4s open.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby 0beron » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:21 pm

Okay I don't have the time or patience to read Swod's massive text wall at this point, but I'll assume it's some other different tactic that will once again delay our progress to actually saying we are ready. Until I have the time to read it and pick it apart, I do just wanna suggest that we give that last mount to Junetta. She will be on the ground, but in line of fire at some points if she tries to Flower-Power the enemy siege.
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Re: Darkness Rising

Postby Werebiscuit » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:17 pm

I'm in relative agreement with Swodaems especially with the switching of Yuri's & Wandreus's Stacks (I had forgotten Wandreus had dance fighting :oops: ).
I would like to point out however if we're targeting unguarded units that their guarding units WILL BE UNGUARDED and their def will be low due to guarding actions.
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