Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby 0beron » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:21 pm

Exate wrote:Turn 16? Titans, you must play like lightning. I suppose I've got most of what will probably happen in my next handful of turns mapped out, but even so- I can hardly imagine it all going off without a hitch, and it would have to in order to get up to Turn 16 in less than another couple months. Or Kaed and I could start sending each other several PMs a day; that would also do it.

I'm usually on for a good chunk of the day, so when Kaed sends me updates, we usually go back and forth quickly. So my progress has always been bursts of activity, followed by long periods of waiting. Also, my strategy so far has been very isolationist, so my "problems" are plot in nature, rather than battles and scouts and such.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby The Colonel » Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:05 pm

Start of turn 12 now, I can reply faster too thanks to the HOLIDAYS!
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Kaed » Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:26 pm

Errybody updated!~
UNLESS someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. It's not.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Safaquel » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:09 pm

Congrats guys!
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Koliup » Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:53 pm

Kaed wrote:Errybody updated!~

Lies.

Anyway, I was looking through the archives, to find out some informations on training units. Here's what I got.
Six hundred forty turns is how long it takes to go from level six to level seven, just by training.
Divide the XP required for 6-7 by 640, and we know how much XP/turn training should give.

Also, apparently Tramennis is an heir. But he was not popped as one. However, we do know he is related to Slately, in the classical sense making him heir. So, one of two things occured: He was popped as an Heir, but someone else was already Heir, so he was demoted to Warlord. Or. He was popped as a Royal Warlord, related to Slately, and can be made to count as a 'continue the royal line' Heir. If that's true, then one can continue a Royal Line by promoting Royal Warlords to Heir. But they have to be 'related' to the monarch. Something that Jetstone is actually really lucky with. Unlike Goodminton was. Might be best to ignore this for gameplay purposes.

Thoughts?
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby 0beron » Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:26 pm

Tramennis was made (at great expense) promoted to Heir. It was specified in one of the text updates that he was NOT an Heir when he popped. (Jetstone had many heirs at the time, so they didn't waste the extra time to pop him as yet another one.)
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Koliup » Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:24 am

0beron wrote:Tramennis was made (at great expense) promoted to Heir. It was specified in one of the text updates that he was NOT an Heir when he popped. (Jetstone had many heirs at the time, so they didn't waste the extra time to pop him as yet another one.)

Right. We know that. But why would Slately appoint an Overlord?
What I may have failed at pointing out, in giving options, was that apparently units popped as 'related' to the king can be promoted to proper Royal Heirs, instead of becoming Overlord Designate. So the difference between a proper Heir and a Warlord related to the king/monarch is that the Heir is guaranteed 100% related all the time, and Warlords have a(much?) smaller chance. I would further like to propose that just because a unit has the eye color of the monarch, does not mean they're related, at least, in a way that lets them inherit the throne as a proper Heir would. So instead of being king, they would be overlord. This may be where Nobles are. Royals have a legitimate shot at the throne, Nobles a shot at Overlord-dom. Hence Nobles likely being far more prevalent than Royals. Mind, Jetstone had a lot of Royal warlords for some reason. I have no clue why. Luckamancy?

In this way, a chart/dice roll to figure out if a unit is related to the monarch in such a way to be a probable Royal Heir would be useful to Royal sides who wish to continue being Royal in the event of Total Monarch Meltdown.
But wait, why not just pop Warlords and wait for them to be Royal and then make them heir? Well, the answer to that lies in heirs almost universally being, well, capable in battle and civil matters. Whereas with Warlords it's not only a crapshoot at times, but they aren't always Royal. And it costs money to promote them.

TL;DR: Royal Warlords should be able to be promoted to Heir, and still count as being a Monarch when their current Monarch dies, instead of becoming Overlord. Due to being related to the current Monarch. Heirs are better suited to this, as they are always Royal/related, and tend to be more competent than Warlords on average.

Funfact: I wrote Hair when I meant Heir FAR too many times.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Lord of Monies » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:46 am

Trammenis won't be an Overlord, he'll be a King.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Koliup » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:48 am

Lord of Monies wrote:Trammenis won't be an Overlord, he'll be a King.

Yes. He will be. Which is why I said Royal Warlords ought to count as popped heirs when determining whether or not your side stays Royal when the Monarch dies.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Lord of Monies » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:53 am

What makes you think he'll be an overlord? Point me to your source.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Koliup » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:57 am

Lord of Monies wrote:What makes you think he'll be an overlord? Point me to your source.

No. Boop it. I never stated he would be an Overlord. I said "Why would Slately appoint an Overlord?" it was rhetorical. He would NEVER do that. Ergo all my following words. I was pointing out, in too veiled a manner it seems, that A: The proposed chart for unit relations. and B: A suggested new rule about Royal units(canbemadeintoproperheirscontinueroyallineetc.etc.). may be advisable to look over and consider.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Lord of Monies » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:59 am

Unit relations isn't something that we, as players, need worry about, so I don't think a table is necessary. Royal warlords can be promoted to heir. It's in the rules. Just has a hefty price-tag is all. As far as I understand, what you're suggesting be put in place is already in place.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Koliup » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:04 am

Lord of Monies wrote:As far as I understand, what you're suggesting be put in place is already in place.

It seems to be. Surprised I missed that wording, though. It seems I need sleep.
Actually, think we could pester 0beron to post a changelog any time he changes anything on the main rules document?
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Lord of Monies » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:06 am

You could try, but that particular rule has been there as long as I can remember.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby 0beron » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:23 am

Okay, let me save you the trouble guys, cus this is very simple.

All Command units popped BY Jetstone are Royal/Noble. As such, when any of them becomes Ruler of the Side, it remains a Royal side. There isn't anything "special" about them, they have always been Royal/Noble since they popped, so the royal line continues.

Now, in our game presently, Royal sides don't ALWAYS pop Royal/Noble units, because we're not exactly sure how their stats work, so I think we aired on the side of caution by going with a fairly strong buff to their stats and not having them always pop. Maybe we should review that and change it?
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Exate » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:12 pm

Koliup wrote:He was popped as a Royal Warlord, related to Slately, and can be made to count as a 'continue the royal line' Heir. If that's true, then one can continue a Royal Line by promoting Royal Warlords to Heir. But they have to be 'related' to the monarch. Something that Jetstone is actually really lucky with.
I've been mentally using the following expectations/guidelines:
-Any warlord popped in the capital of a royal side has a good shot at being royal. They will not be nobles.
-Any warlord popped in a non-capital city of a royal side has a good shot at being noble. They will not be royals.
-Any heir from a royal side has to be popped in the capital (obviously) and will always be royal.
-Any royal popped under a royal ruler is the child of that ruler.

So it's easy enough to see why Jetstone has plenty of royal heirs; it's not a matter of luck, just the fact that they deliberately use most of their capital's popping time on making heirs and warlords, and churn out tons of royals because of it. Sides which pop most of their warlords outside the capital won't have children spilling from the ruler's... ears.

My thoughts on possible rules for familial relations are expressed in modest detail here, which bend the above a little but in my opinion lay out a fairly workable framework for units in general being popped with relationships to one another. It's possible to just eyeball everything, of course, but I'd just as soon have some rules laid out.

0beron wrote:All Command units popped BY Jetstone are Royal/Noble.
I'm not sure that's true. Take Webinar- definitely a commander, but Prince Ansom addressed him with no title or anything and he was very particular about correct forms of address. Based upon that, I'd say that command units popped by a royal side are not always royals or nobles and the way we're doing it right now is true to comic.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby 0beron » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:18 pm

Hm good point about Webinar, I'm not sure how to reconcile that....because I'm pretty sure there was one point that specified: Commanders popped in the Capital are Royal, those popped elsewhere are Noble. So maybe it should be expanded to "those popped not in the Capital are either Noble OR normal"...?
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Lord of Monies » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:25 pm

Webinar could have been promoted to warlord, perhaps? He does kinda look like an infantry unit, so he might have proven his skills and earned a promotion to warlord.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby 0beron » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:28 pm

*facepalm* oh yeah, duh haha, that's most likely it.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (closed) - Rules and Discussion

Postby WaterMonkey314 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:42 pm

Lord of Monies wrote:Webinar could have been promoted to warlord, perhaps? He does kinda look like an infantry unit, so he might have proven his skills and earned a promotion to warlord.


Kibitzing here, but it's also possible that he was traded (see the fate of Count Topotato) from a side that popped normal warlords.
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