Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Lord of Monies » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:21 pm

Brick is interested in both options that seem to be considered, though depending on the mission might prefer to take the mercenary work instead. His expertise could assist in keeping a caster alive, should one head out for the job. Mercenary work also seems like a simple job. Go here, do this, return. Fighting Lolly could potentially croak them all, considering there were casualties when the dollamancer wasn't even there.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:30 pm

0beron wrote:Yeah Vinny will definitely pass. As a caster it is inappropriate for me to risk myself in that fashion. I guess I'll just go help capture the better-than-me-replacement instead -_-

Oh, don't worry about that one... If Lolly isn't bluffing, we're not capturing him anytime soon.

I think that we should get back to the war with the Elves for now. We know that Lolly's at least willing to remain neutral for now... And we have more pressing matters to deal with.


MarbitChow wrote:and one PC suddenly gains 144 XP while no one else gains any.

Somehow I'd think the other players would revolt at the notion as well... (My intent was to Turn them all if possible.)

Regardless, sneaking in through the back is still not a bad idea. (Marbit, if someone got inside undetected, could they open a rear gate?) We'll need to get some maps of the enemy city, though... (Exactly what turns will the imps arrive on, and can they at least get us a report on how the outer walls are arranged?)


WhirdCheese wrote:I'll have two. Fortune's Chance and a Spearman. I'll just pick up a first level spearman make him leadership and take 4 other zed or first level warriors 2 archers and 1 spearman on merc missions.

You'll have to get Tod's approval on that... For now, I think, we'll need the majority of our forces here.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby WhirdCheese » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:43 pm

I acctually dicided on a warrior exclusivly for mercing.

Unless I can't put two of my AP in Well-protected.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby bob the 6th » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:02 pm

Submited request for thomas... Who would be fine with doing either. Though I think with all the belisti around, the campain should bring a heavy or four to deal with it.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby MarbitChow » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:12 pm

Nnelg wrote:
MarbitChow wrote:and one PC suddenly gains 144 XP while no one else gains any.
Somehow I'd think the other players would revolt at the notion as well... (My intent was to Turn them all if possible.)
I appreciate what your intent is. It doesn't change the fact that I will not introduce a scenario that can be abused like that.

Nnelg wrote:Regardless, sneaking in through the back is still not a bad idea. (Marbit, if someone got inside undetected, could they open a rear gate?) We'll need to get some maps of the enemy city, though... (Exactly what turns will the imps arrive on, and can they at least get us a report on how the outer walls are arranged?)
Most cities are pretty simple. A single gate, maybe some defensive towers. You'll probably see any defensive structures like Heavy Ballista and the like. (There's a lot of work to be done in this campaign, so I won't be doing things like building out full city maps for the scenarios. You'll get 2 choices: attack the gate, or attack a wall section that's not the gate.)

WhirdCheese wrote:I acctually dicided on a warrior exclusivly for mercing. Unless I can't put two of my AP in Well-protected.
Um, you can't. Well-protected can only be purchased once.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:21 pm

MarbitChow wrote:Most cities are pretty simple. A single gate, maybe some defensive towers. You'll probably see any defensive structures like Heavy Ballista and the like. (There's a lot of work to be done in this campaign, so I won't be doing things like building out full city maps for the scenarios. You'll get 2 choices: attack the gate, or attack a wall section that's not the gate.)

Does this mean no sneaking in at all, then? As in, set the main army up to attack a part of the wall that isn't the gate, then when most of the enemy's over there, a smaller force sneaks in and deals with the few guards left by the gate? Then they could open it, and our cavalry would come pouring through to hit the enemy in the flank/rear.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby 0beron » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:18 am

Unless we have several veiled fliers, that kind of plan will never work Nnelg. The defenders will just move over to defend the gate...cities aren't THAT big.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:58 am

0beron wrote:Unless we have several veiled fliers

This was exactly the plan. That's the reason I haven't chosen Nemo's next spell yet...
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby 0beron » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:12 am

Emphasis on SEVERAL. In order for you to pull that off, you'd need enough fliers that they could kill every gate guard in a single volley. AND then you'd have to hope our main force could run around the city and into the Gate before the enemy gets there to close it again.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:20 am

Not that big a problem. Nemo has 16-28 Juice, Crypsis costs 2 Juice (last I checked), so that's 8-14 units. Besides, I wasn't going to rely only on fliers; I'd bring in a couple veiled Balrugs loaded our Old Batch PCs. And of course the main army won't be getting over to the gate, they're needed to pin the enemy forces at the wall anyways. We'd have a separate detachment made up of the Naughty Kitties (with riders) and Heck Pups that was left out of the main attack, ready to move in at a moment's notice.

And I don't expect cities to be huge, but I don't expect them to be tiny, either. The gate team should have a few rounds after the alarm is raised (which could take a while in and of itself).


EDIT:
Heck, instead of a second Balrug we could just pop a Bad Ass for Tod. :D
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby CroverusRaven » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:32 am

So what is this I hear about mercenary contracts? Cause Donovan could use some more xp.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:55 am

Nnelg wrote:
0beron wrote:Yeah Vinny will definitely pass. As a caster it is inappropriate for me to risk myself in that fashion. I guess I'll just go help capture the better-than-me-replacement instead -_-

Oh, don't worry about that one... If Lolly isn't bluffing, we're not capturing him anytime soon.

I think that we should get back to the war with the Elves for now. We know that Lolly's at least willing to remain neutral for now... And we have more pressing matters to deal with.


Sigh. Since we discuss the intel given to Yuri ...

(IC William)

Wrong. That's exactly why we strike and kill or capture the caster. Even assuming Lolly is truthful- which I doubt- the fact is that the claimed territory is a drop compared to the ocean that is Breatharia. It's roughly the same size as us. It's pretty easy I think to see which direction is more fruitful for a quick expansion.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:37 am

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Sigh. Since we discuss the intel given to Yuri ...

(Well, if it has to be in-character than we can assume it occurs after Yuri's done his conversation.)

BLANDCorporatio wrote:Wrong. That's exactly why we strike and kill or capture the caster. Even assuming Lolly is truthful- which I doubt- the fact is that the claimed territory is a drop compared to the ocean that is Breatharia. It's roughly the same size as us. It's pretty easy I think to see which direction is more fruitful for a quick expansion.

Oh, sure, of course we'll need to deal with him soon. But we need more detailed intel before we can do so, intel that will take a while to get.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Werebiscuit » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:13 am

Rolf Nods.." indeed intelligence like that can take a while to amass but it's sometimes amazing what perople will let slip on themselves in conversation.
It's amazing how many diplomats can be considered spies just because of the lack of discretion of their fellow diplomats. At least let's keep him talking. I trust my brother to keep our 'secrets' close"...I'm sure I would affect the same trust to a mad wizard."
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby ETheBoyce » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:30 pm

(OOC: I'm glad others enjoyed my foray into magic theory, I used the various conversations they had about it as a guide of sorts, but in other news the RP timeline is getting messy, but did Creperum ever try the diplomatic reasoning Coil provided on Ix?)
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:33 pm

ETheBoyce wrote:(OOC: I'm glad others enjoyed my foray into magic theory, I used the various conversations they had about it as a guide of sorts, but in other news the RP timeline is getting messy, but did Creperum ever try the diplomatic reasoning Coil provided on Ix?)
Creperum has delegated all diplomacy to Yuri. Yuri has not yet attempted to contact the Ixians.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:45 pm

Nnelg wrote:And I don't expect cities to be huge, but I don't expect them to be tiny, either. The gate team should have a few rounds after the alarm is raised (which could take a while in and of itself).

Then again... Logan's Run is a level 1 city... Marbit, could we get an approximate size for a level 1? (Not that I expect to have all the battle on one map, but we'd at least need to know how many Rounds it would take to get from one side to the other.)


But we don't need to restrict this discussion to only one city; instead we should figure out some siege tactics in general. (Although, if you want to get technical about it, what we normally call a "Siege" is really a Storm.)

For starters, we need to organize our units into effecient Squads. Thankfully the new LOS rules favor damage being spread across whole squads, so we can use that to our advantage. We'll organize all of our units into Squads with set purposes before the battle begins, and send them in one type at a time. One thing we'll need to look at is mixing in screening infantry with our Squads of Archers and Sappers; and on a case-by-case basis determine if that's necessary. (Any units we use for screening will be unavailable for actual combat.) The other important thing is to get our very best melee troops into Sturm Squads. (Note: all Melee troops not screening other units will be held back until halfway through the battle, so that they'll be fresh when they're needed.)

Stage 1 of the battle would be siege tactics. By this, I mean that we'd just stand off and shoot at the enemy. (We'd use mixed squads of archers with screening infantry for this.) We'd keep at it until we either start taking too many casualties or the enemy pulls back off the wall, at which point the siege would progress to Stage 2. (Note: Stage 1 is optional. We'll only use it when our archery is significantly better than the enemy's; otherwise, we'll just skip to Stage 2.)

Stage 2 is to assault the walls, to create a breach. (Gates are usually more heavily defended than walls. Also, they're natural chokepoints.) Now we'd send forwards both Archers and Sappers (screened by infantry). The Sappers will want to attack on as wide a front as possible, to force the enemy to spread out as well. The rest of the melee troops are still held back in this Stage, although they'll still be maneuvering in the rear to line up wherever a breach looks most likely.

Stage 3 begins as soon as the first breach appears. At this breach we rush our Sturm Squads, although not necessarily all of them nor our best. We follow up with infantry wherever the enemy fails to plug the hole. The remaining Sappers remain on-station to finish their sections of wall, although they may fall back if they take too many casualties. Wherever they manage to make another breach, the Sappers have but one objective remaining: to hold until relieved. Once an Infantry or Sturm Squad makes it to their position, the Sappers fall back. They're done with the battle, and won't return to the front lines unless we get desperate (well, the screening infantry might if they get healed).

Stage 4 is after we've secured a breachhead. Our Infantry will pour into the city, and it's pretty much downhill from there. Only if we have to take the Garrison will this Stage matter much.


So far I've only mentioned infantry. Cavalry and Fliers are more specialized, and need to be deployed on a case-by-case basis.

Since Cavalry in this game is basically just advanced Shock Troops, they'd form the cream of our Sturm Squads. However, they shouldn't be the first to go in. Instead, Cavalry should wait until after the enemy has commited a lot of units defending one or two breaches. Then, when a new breach opens, Cavalry's fast movement will allow them to reach it before the enemy can redeploy.

Fliers, on the other hand, act indipendantly of the main army. Theirs is a harrasing and support role; and they should manuever wherever they can, doing as much damage as they can, and avoiding enemy AA. They'll likely have to wait until Stage 3 to be useful, though, as before then they're particularly vulnerable to enemy archery.


At least, that's my assessment based on using Sappers. If we've got Catapults et cetera, we'll want to pull them up in a modified version of Stage 1. And there are other possibilities...

Marbit, how do you feel about ladders? Or purchasing a Power Keg from a Dirtamancer/Clothamancer/Shockamancer in the Magic Kingdom? Not for this battle, of course, but sometime in the future?
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby MarbitChow » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:03 pm

Nnelg wrote:Marbit, could we get an approximate size for a level 1? (Not that I expect to have all the battle on one map, but we'd at least need to know how many Rounds it would take to get from one side to the other.)
Nope. As I've mentioned before, I'm keeping this relatively simple. If you're able to get an entire force up to the walls invisibly, and drop the walls in a few rounds before any serious reinforcements can arrive, then the main fight will occur in the city. But I'm not turning this game into an accurate military simulator. Rules complexity aside, I'm going to try to keep things as simple as possible, which means I'm not going to try to create accurate city interior/exterior measurements, etc. I've got to create the layout for anywhere the fight occurs, and creating the images consumes a significant amount of time. I plan to reuse as much as possible.

Besides, the spirit of Erfworld is a game simulator. Most games, when capturing a city, don't allow for feints and such. You just pit all your units against all their units, and one side wins. I'm going to strongly resist anything that moves away from that paradigm. Foolamancy will certainly be used to impact the course of battles, but it will not, in most cases, be able to prevent a fight from occurring completely.

Nnelg wrote:Marbit, how do you feel about ladders? Or purchasing a Power Keg from a Dirtamancer/Clothamancer/Shockamancer in the Magic Kingdom? Not for this battle, of course, but sometime in the future?
Ladders are fine, especially since they can be tipped over with an action, triggering automatic falling damage for everyone on it. I believe they're supported in the comic as well.

You've got a Shockamancer who can blast down walls. You've got a dollamancer who can (eventually) create golems that can shatter structures. You've got siege structures (catapults, ballista) which can destroy at range. I don't see the need to introduce a Power (Powder?) Keg - we're not introducing gunpowder & explosives into the world. Shockamancy scrolls will be required if you want someone besides Coil to start blasting the walls away, at least for now.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby ETheBoyce » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:23 pm

I'm a one-stop siege machine! Though our Luckamancer will be potentially better when he reaches level 4 (assuming he takes Hoboken); that said how comes the Chief Caster decision?
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:29 pm

MarbitChow wrote:Nope. As I've mentioned before, I'm keeping this relatively simple. If you're able to get an entire force up to the walls invisibly, and drop the walls in a few rounds before any serious reinforcements can arrive, then the main fight will occur in the city. But I'm not turning this game into an accurate military simulator.

Fair enough. So then, it will be possible to take the enemy by surprise? What would we need to do in order to accomplish this? (Since we have no idea how far out from the walls the enemy can even see...)


MarbitChow wrote:Besides, the spirit of Erfworld is a game simulator. Most games, when capturing a city, don't allow for feints and such. You just pit all your units against all their units, and one side wins.

Actually, I'm not planning on doing anything that wouldn't be possible in a game similar to one from the Total War series.


MarbitChow wrote:You've got a Shockamancer who can blast down walls. You've got a dollamancer who can (eventually) create golems that can shatter structures. You've got siege structures (catapults, ballista) which can destroy at range. I don't see the need to introduce a Power (Powder?) Keg - we're not introducing gunpowder & explosives into the world. Shockamancy scrolls will be required if you want someone besides Coil to start blasting the walls away, at least for now.

Ok then. What's the price of one of those? (My idea is to sneak someone in close to an unguarded wall segment, to create a small breach which would give our side an advantage. I guess we could just sneak in Coil himself, but I'd prefer using a more expendable unit.)
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