Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:56 pm

Lord of Monies wrote:Yeah, Nnelg, it's usually no longer possible to target individuals BECAUSE of things like mounts and bodyguards.

Haven't you been reading the rules thread? :lol:

Marbit changed Fire so that you can only target Squads, not individuals (as long as you're next to another Squad member).

Also, Spellcasting has unlimited range (last I asked Marbit), so for a siege we can just leave the Casters out of range of the enemy (Fire from walls was limited to 18 Squares, again last I checked).


So, we don't need mounts and Bodyguards for Leadership units anymore (unless they're going into melee). Casters don't need anything more than a precautionary measure.


And that frees up our Naughty Kitties for other things. Like this...

The Tenebrisian Cossacks:
Tod: (9com / 9def / 24hits)
Tod's NK: (9+5=14com / 15+5=20def / 44hits / 14{16}move) [Swift x2]
3x Spearmen: (11+5+1+1=18com / 4+5+1+1=11def / 16hits) [Dance-Fighting, Well-Armed, Skilled, 1 AP Banked]
3x Naughty Kitties: (9+5+4=18com / 15+5+4=24def / 44hits / 10{12}move) [Imprinted]
Leadership Bonus
Paragon Inspiration Bonus
Dance-Fighting Bonus
Imprinted Rider Bonus



That's 6 Units with 18 Combat. Six Units which deal more damage than most of the PCs. And I didn't even include Combat Modifiers!

Surely, if we need the Casters on Mounts, we can pop them new ones?


0beron wrote:Just a note, I'm still useless in combat. I provide no bonus to my golems until lvl 3. So no need to plan for me stacking with them.

Well, the Golems could use a Command Unit to act as a Squad Leader. You'll have Golem Bodyguards I presume, so you're not in danger. And nobody knows (or should know) your Golems' capabilities better than you do. Might as well get used to stacking with them now.

Besides, we already have enough casters to protect as it is! If you can take care of yourself, that will lessen the strain on our bodyguard corps. And having you available to direct your Golem Squad(s) both gives you something useful to do, and should make rounds a tiny bit quicker.


Note:
It is my intent to get a PC in each squad if at all possible. That way, each round everyone can post just the actions for their own Squad. As long as everyone's on the same page with the plan, that should make Rounds go much quicker.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:03 pm

Nnelg wrote:Haven't you been reading the rules thread? :lol:

Marbit changed Fire so that you can only target Squads, not individuals (as long as you're next to another Squad member).


Oh I definitely re-read the rule on fire now.

And I am fuming. What the hell.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby 0beron » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:06 pm

Oh okay then yes I suppose that makes sense.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:21 pm

Nnelg wrote:Also, Spellcasting has unlimited range (last I asked Marbit), so for a siege we can just leave the Casters out of range of the enemy (Fire from walls was limited to 18 Squares, again last I checked).
Fire from walls is 18 + elevation modifier (4, I think). Casters will not be able to position themselves so that they're out-of-range; I'll just terminate the map at the point where the farthest shot can reach.

The Caster RLOS just means that, if they're on the map, they don't have to worry about range (allowing them to target units behind the front row, etc). It doesn't mean siege just got trivial if you just bring your shockamancer.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:25 pm

MarbitChow wrote:Fire from walls is 18 + elevation modifier (4, I think). Casters will not be able to position themselves so that they're out-of-range; I'll just terminate the map at the point where the farthest shot can reach.

The Caster RLOS just means that, if they're on the map, they don't have to worry about range (allowing them to target units behind the front row, etc). It doesn't mean siege just got trivial if you just bring your shockamancer.

While I have no problem about not being able to outrange the defenders, I'd like at least for units to be able to withdraw out of range of the enemy if they don't want to get shot at (and are willing to give up the opportunity to shoot back).
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby ETheBoyce » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:26 pm

Unless I'm sieging we're typically going to want me in Tod's stack because +7 guaranteed damage to 3-9 targets, likewise sticking archers in Tod's stack is typically going to be preferable to melee units up until the point they get into melee range at which point the advanced movement of a mount becomes problematic because being surrounded by enemies because you're off by yourself is no good, in fact it makes far more sense to put Warriors on the Kitties with a warrior in between each and a spearman behind the warrior, this allows our Spearmen to focus on Offense and our warriors on Defense. On that note, can a Rider Guard his Mount?

I knew you weren't going to just let me blast the gate from 100 yards away! But what if We have siege engines and the defending city doesn't? And Nnelg that's called leaving the hex.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Lord of Monies » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:35 pm

Suddenly I feel really useless.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:44 pm

ETheBoyce wrote:Unless I'm sieging we're typically going to want me in Tod's stack because +7 guaranteed damage to 3-9 targets,

That's really only a +4 you'd be losing, since Wandereus has +3. Stacking Tod with melee units means his leadership both boosts attack and absorbs hits. (Did you see the defence on those NKs?! Nothing but a crit will even scratch them!)

ETheBoyce wrote:likewise sticking archers in Tod's stack is typically going to be preferable to melee units up until the point they get into melee range

The Cossacks will use their higher movement to get into melee as quick as possible, where they can cream the opposition.


ETheBoyce wrote:at which point the advanced movement of a mount becomes problematic because being surrounded by enemies because you're off by yourself is no good,

First off, Tod isn't by himself; he's got 3 Lancers with him. Second, the higher movement means they won't get surrounded unless they want to be. Third, Naughty Kitties are nigh-unstoppable in the Bull Rush. Fourth, if you're so worried, give Tod's mount Leaper.


ETheBoyce wrote:in fact it makes far more sense to put Warriors on the Kitties with a warrior in between each and a spearman behind the warrior

Read the new rules for ordering Squads around. We won't be able to do anything this complex. (Besides, we couldn't even fit all those units in one Squad!)

The reason we'd use Spearmen is so that they'd get Tod's Inspiration bonus. (Warriors have no advantage over Spearmen in Combat, which is all that matters for a mounted unit.)


ETheBoyce wrote:this allows our Spearmen to focus on Offense and our warriors on Defense.

Erm... So the Warriors, whom are mounted, will focus on Defence? Why not just have mounted Spearmen focusing on attack, and let their mounts handle defence?



ETheBoyce wrote:And Nnelg that's called leaving the hex.

But Marbit said Hexes are going to be a lot bigger, so the border wouldn't necessarily be the Hex Border. Either way, I'd like to be able to cross it and possibly come back to the same battle.



Lord of Monies wrote:Suddenly I feel really useless.

Don't. Under my suggestion, Brick has a VIP to protect: one of the Alt Elves. And the Squad you're in will be in the thick of it, so that's no idle task.

PS:
Marbit, how does "Healing Touch" work? (I presume some degree of proximity is required.) I couldn't find it on the list of specials.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:07 pm

Nnelg wrote:Marbit, how does "Healing Touch" work? (I presume some degree of proximity is required.) I couldn't find it on the list of specials.
At the end of Phase 0 on each round, every allied unit that is adjacent to an Altruistic Elf heals 8 Hits.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:12 pm

Swodaems wrote:(Sadly, Melissa will be unable to attend the battle unless she travels to Logan run directly from Tenebris.

All right then, that gives me an idea. Tenebris can pop 4 Naughty Kitties over Turns 12-13, and Regus, Anex, Zed-Too, and Melissa can stack with them to join up with the rest of us at Logan's Run. (We can even add in a couple Gobwins in if we want.) Sound like a good idea?


MarbitChow wrote:At the end of Phase 0 on each round, every allied unit that is adjacent to an Altruistic Elf heals 8 Hits.

Oh, that is a powerful skill. All the more essential, then, that we stack one with the Heavies.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby ETheBoyce » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:17 pm

Nnelg wrote:That's really only a +4 you'd be losing, since Wandereus has +3. Stacking Tod with melee units means his leadership both boosts attack and absorbs hits. (Did you see the defence on those NKs?! Nothing but a crit will even scratch them!)


A crit from what? an Unled Zed who's not using any Combat Modifiers? A level 1 Heavy could easily pierce that defense, especially when you consider melee can support/Coordinate and add in a Leadership Bonus and suddenly that Defense isn't looking so good.

The Cossacks will use their higher movement to get into melee as quick as possible, where they can cream the opposition.


A single stack of units charging into the masses of the enemy alone is what I call suicide

First off, Tod isn't by himself; he's got 3 Lancers with him. Second, the higher movement means they won't get surrounded unless they want to be. Third, Naughty Kitties are nigh-unstoppable in the Bull Rush. Fourth, if you're so worried, give Tod's mount Leaper.


See above, Bull Rushing into a bunch of enemies won't be helpful when they can then use their turn to surround and prevent you from moving.

Read the new rules for ordering Squads around. We won't be able to do anything this complex. (Besides, we couldn't even fit all those units in one Squad!)


Pretty sure we can have the squads array themselves in a simple formation"

kkwkkwkkwkk
kkskkskkskk

And they don't need to be part of the same Stack, they just need to be adjacent to each other
The reason we'd use Spearmen is so that they'd get Tod's Inspiration bonus. (Warriors have no advantage over Spearmen in Combat, which is all that matters for a mounted unit.)


Actually they have 1 more base combat and 2 more hits, also if they reach level 4 they have twice the single-target power of spearmen

Erm... So the Warriors, whom are mounted, will focus on Defence? Why not just have mounted Spearmen focusing on attack, and let their mounts handle defence?


Because the 1 advantage Spearmen have over warriors is range so having them on the front line negates that


But Marbit said Hexes are going to be a lot bigger, so the border wouldn't necessarily be the Hex Border. Either way, I'd like to be able to cross it and possibly come back to the same battle.


Who says you can't? just because Armolad decided to run away doesn't mean she had to run all the way home, she could have waited around

And why would we risk our Elves in Combat? Makes far more sense to have them wait off hex and either come in after to patch up our wounded or use them to heal troops that retreat across the hex so they can reenter the battle
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:41 pm

ETheBoyce wrote:A crit from what? an Unled Zed who's not using any Combat Modifiers? A level 1 Heavy could easily pierce that defense, especially when you consider melee can support/Coordinate and add in a Leadership Bonus and suddenly that Defense isn't looking so good.

If Twenty-Four Defense isn't much, I'd hate to see what is! :lol:

EDIT:
Actually, doesn't Tod get a bonus to Leadership for being Chief Warlord? I forgot to add that in, so their Defence is even higher. :D


ETheBoyce wrote:A single stack of units charging into the masses of the enemy alone is what I call suicide

Then they wouldn't charge alone. Unless they knew they could handle the enemy by themselves.

ETheBoyce wrote:See above, Bull Rushing into a bunch of enemies won't be helpful when they can then use their turn to surround and prevent you from moving.

But Bull Rushing to break out is!

ETheBoyce wrote:Pretty sure we can have the squads array themselves in a simple formation"

If it were a single squad, possibly. But I don't know if Marbit would let us do that over multiple Squads. Moot point really, since it'd be better to have the Mounted units and warrior/spearman line as separate formations.


ETheBoyce wrote:And they don't need to be part of the same Stack, they just need to be adjacent to each other

If they aren't, ranged units will be able to pick them off one-by-one.


ETheBoyce wrote:Actually they have 1 more base combat and 2 more hits, also if they reach level 4 they have twice the single-target power of spearmen

MarbitChow wrote:Warrior: 5 Combat / 5 Defense / 14 Hits. 8 Square Move. 8 Overland Hex Move. Assault. 3 AP to purchase abilities. Special: Military
Spearman: 5 Combat / 4 Defense / 12 Hits. 8 Square Move. 8 Overland Hex Move. Strike. 3 AP to purchase abilities. Special: Military

While Warriors have superior single-target skills, Spearmen are better against multiple targets. Strike also lets them attack units their Mounts aren't adjacent to, including Spearmen who are trying to hide behind a wall of Warriors. (Note: I'm not even going to consider the level 8 abilities.)



ETheBoyce wrote:Because the 1 advantage Spearmen have over warriors is range so having them on the front line negates that

Instead, it allows them to hit units that are in the enemy's back row. Like "glass" Spearmen. And they can do so the same time they attack the front row, if they're level 4.


ETheBoyce wrote:Who says you can't?

Nobody. I'm just making sure.


ETheBoyce wrote:And why would we risk our Elves in Combat?

8 wounds healed per unit per round. One Alt Elf adjacent to 3 units for 5 rounds can heal up to 120 damage during combat. Imagine a Squad of Heavies whose wounds heal as they occur. We can easily keep the Elf safe with Bodyguards.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Exate » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:55 pm

Nnelg wrote:(Did you see the defence on those NKs?! Nothing but a crit will even scratch them!)
A new-popped garrison archer with a level 2 warlord under the current rules can easily have 7 base+3 Well-Armed+4 dance fighting+2 leadership=16 Combat even prior to factoring in combat modifiers, which can do things like focus Support actions to absurd heights of deadliness, so I don't think their Defense is quite so high as all that. Higher-level enemy units can easily manage more impressive numbers.

MarbitChow wrote:The Queen chuckles. "Indeed. We started the demands with the return of all cities, plus 100,000 shmuckers in reparations. We'll argue for several turns I'm sure, bickering back and forth until some 'reasonable' compromise is made. The problem as I see it, though, is that even while bickering, we're still in cease-fire, so the elves are getting what they want.

"As to maps, we could probably provide you with a decent amount of information on the elven cities to the East of Breatheairia, but the ones we know best are the ones furthest from their capital. Discuss the matter with my envoy when she arrives.

"Now, Yuri, I hope you'll indulge me. We Ixians have a fondness for games and tests, and there's one in particular I'd like to pose to you. We call it the Bene Guess-it Rite. There are many variations, but the one I challenge you with is this: I'm thinking of an amount of shmuckers that I would be willing to freely give to your side. I'll allow you to make a single request for any amount of shmuckers. If your request is 'close' to mine, I'll grant you whichever value is higher - yours or mine. However, request a value that is too high, or too low, and you gain nothing. I cannot even tell you what constitutes "close", since that already conveys information about the value to a clever one such as yourself. What number you choose will tell me much about you. How you choose that number, if you wish to share your thoughts, will tell me even more." She smiles, and folds her arms. "What is your response?"
Yuri's Diplomacy Hour
The game seems ominous to Yuri; some kind of tricky trap tantalizingly taunting trainee talkers. There are nuances here that perhaps someone more informed and experienced might grasp, he knows- they could factor in the Queen's personality, the fact that she's been losing cities and troops recently but her biggest war is looking to grind to a halt in the near future with a treaty where the other side makes concessions, the practicalities of money transfer, and a dozen other things and somehow predict exactly the number she's thinking of. But while the big warlord might have some deviousness in his mind, vicious instincts that are applicable to diplomacy as well as battle that urge him to look for and set ambushes in his words just as he would in a strategic situation, that sort of complex analysis and empathy is simply beyond him.

So he does what any unit defaults to, in the absence of other orders: Locate an objective and charge. After several long seconds of staring at the Queen through the thinkagram, his crude, bricklike face slowly blinking, Yuri abruptly speaks. "Seven thousand, five hundred eighty shmuckers." He pauses while the guess hangs in the air. "Reasons are being wanted now, or after saying what is number?"
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:59 pm

Exate wrote:
Nnelg wrote:(Did you see the defence on those NKs?! Nothing but a crit will even scratch them!)
A new-popped garrison archer with a level 2 warlord under the current rules can easily have 7 base+3 Well-Armed+4 dance fighting+2 leadership=16 Combat even prior to factoring in combat modifiers, which can do things like focus Support actions to absurd heights of deadliness, so I don't think their Defense is quite so high as all that. Higher-level enemy units can easily manage more impressive numbers.

Their Defence is 24. Or 26 if I'm right by inferring Chief Warlord adds an additional +2. If the rider can apply Combat Modifiers to his mount, that number goes up to 32. And that will go even higher as the Kitties gain levels (Level 3 can net them a +6 defence if the take Well-Protected).

But it doesn't really matter, since they don't have to worry about arrows if they're adjacent to the enemy.


Besides, any archers powerful enough to hurt them won't be one-shotting our other troops. :D
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby MarbitChow » Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:50 pm

Exate wrote:So he does what any unit defaults to, in the absence of other orders: Locate an objective and charge. After several long seconds of staring at the Queen through the thinkagram, his crude, bricklike face slowly blinking, Yuri abruptly speaks. "Seven thousand, five hundred eighty shmuckers." He pauses while the guess hangs in the air. "Reasons are being wanted now, or after saying what is number?"
The queen grins. "The number was 9,000, and 'within 20%' was defined as close enough. You exceeded the lower limit by 380. I'll Hat over 9000 in gems to you once our conversation is concluded. Now, what were your reasons?"
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby ETheBoyce » Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:52 pm

Let's put this another way: A level 1 Heavy Warrior or Spearman can have 15 Combat, then he gets supported by 5 others next to him behind him, this gives him another 15, then you add in Leadership, then you can potentially add in more if any of his supporters took Skilled. He passed the "do damage" threshhold before we accounted for leadership, the Kitty can and will take damage from this level 1 Heavy, it could in fact, lose half of its hits. Not to mention the fact that they could have Gumps or Gumptions deployed, both of which will be deadlier now that they don't have to spend AP on combat mods.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:14 pm

ETheBoyce wrote:Let's put this another way: A level 1 Heavy Warrior or Spearman can have 15 Combat, then he gets supported by 5 others next to him behind him, this gives him another 15, then you add in Leadership, then you can potentially add in more if any of his supporters took Skilled. He passed the "do damage" threshhold before we accounted for leadership, the Kitty can and will take damage from this level 1 Heavy, it could in fact, lose half of its hits. Not to mention the fact that they could have Gumps or Gumptions deployed, both of which will be deadlier now that they don't have to spend AP on combat mods.

That's because you're sending Cavalry at an Infantry Square! :lol: (Scissors -> Rock)


But seriously. There will always be a way to damage a unit. Just saying that it's possible isn't really a good argument against using it.

I mean, compare the Kitties with the other units in our army. The only ones whom even approach those stat levels are the Heavies. I fail to see how having two such powerful Squads could be a bad thing.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:17 pm

O.o quick O.oC note, looks like we could, if we wanted to, pay Lolly that 1000Schm. gem now.
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Exate » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:19 pm

MarbitChow wrote:The queen grins. "The number was 9,000, and 'within 20%' was defined as close enough. You exceeded the lower limit by 380. I'll Hat over 9000 in gems to you once our conversation is concluded. Now, what were your reasons?"
Witness Genius Diplomatic Logic In Action Below
A pleased grin sneaks its way onto Yuri's face, evincing much the same sense of satisfaction at his own success that would emerge from bodily yanking the intestines out of an enemy unit or enjoying the attentions of one of the turned elven girls. "Is needing that much for upgrading of city. And Queen is not offering petty numbers like taunt to new friends, or very large that could be using for winning wars of Ix. So needed number is not out of maybe range and is no reason not for asking."
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Re: Darkness Rising v2.0 - 'Tenebris Unleashed' Campaign

Postby Nnelg » Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:24 pm

BLANDCorporatio wrote:O.o quick O.oC note, looks like we could, if we wanted to, pay Lolly that 1000Schm. gem now.

We don't want to. It doesn't gain us much.


Also, I forgot to mention some of the more advanced tactics we could use with mounted Spearmen...

For instance, at level 3 the Kitties could take Dressage. They could go 2 away from the enemy, the Spearmen would get their attack, then they'd move 8 back. (Of course there's counters to this tactic, but most of them involve slowing down or archery.)
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