Book 2 - Page 113

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Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Mikalyaran » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:50 am

0beron wrote:
Mikalyaran wrote:But we don't know the bracer to be an artifact. That's just conjecture on Sizemore's part to my understand.

Well, given that we know artifacts are "anything not made by Erflings" and the Bracer just appeared, I think Sizemore's conjecture is a kinda moot point, because categorically it has to be an artifact, wouldn't you agree?


The Bracer came with the spell and we don't know how it went about that. It might have been summoned by the spell from the Titan's toybox like it summoned Parson from Stupidworld, or it might have been crafted by the spell to work with Parson's calculator through an amalgamation of the involved caster's abilities. Could be either. We don't know beyond Sizemore being impressed with it and therefore thinking it might be more than a mere magic item.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby 0beron » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:02 am

Hm I suppose that's a reasonable point. I'm of the opinion that it was conjured by Fate since Parson wasn't an Erfling, but we don't really have the proof of that so you make a good argument.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Mikalyaran » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:22 am

0beron wrote:Hm I suppose that's a reasonable point. I'm of the opinion that it was conjured by Fate since Parson wasn't an Erfling, but we don't really have the proof of that so you make a good argument.


The summoning spell does seem to rely heavily on fate so its not at all an unreasonable idea that the bracer is an artifact. I'd be very surprised to find out the Chillaxe was.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Lipkin » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:04 pm

Stray thought: I wonder if a liked Dollamancer and Changemancer could turn someone into a Power Ranger? Been thinking about a Dollamancer making a giant mech, then wondered what Ace could do with Parson's bracer, and then my mind got away with me.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Mikalyaran » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:47 pm

Lipkin wrote:Stray thought: I wonder if a liked Dollamancer and Changemancer could turn someone into a Power Ranger? Been thinking about a Dollamancer making a giant mech, then wondered what Ace could do with Parson's bracer, and then my mind got away with me.


I like it. Looking forward to seeing Ace's skill unleashed under Parson's command.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby ftl » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:19 pm

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:I find it funny how casually people keep throwing around tri-link. Don't get me wrong, I think MK has reasonable chances here, but I don't think it is because every thinkamancer (or even any thinkamancer) is going to just tri-link on the spot, given how dangerous it is. It's kind of like assuming that a Stupidworld Superpower is going to start nuking other countries. Sure, they could. Sure, it would be decisive. But the fallout would be horrible.


It wasn't everyone, it was just me.

It would be a last resort... but if Parson literally tries to conquer the MK and starts croaking casters, that would be a time for last resorts, especially for the casters that live in the MK and don't have a side to return to.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Lilwik » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:00 pm

ftl wrote:It would be a last resort... but if Parson literally tries to conquer the MK and starts croaking casters, that would be a time for last resorts, especially for the casters that live in the MK and don't have a side to return to.
The casters who live in the Magic Kingdom are surely all mercenaries. Wouldn't the real last resort be greeting the new boss? They might spare themselves from being croaked by offering to work for Gobwin Knob, or even offering to turn. They'd probably want a deal guaranteeing they won't be murdered and decrypted, but they could surely get that since Gobwin Knob has plenty of shmuckers.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby ftl » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:35 pm

Not sure.

If Parson doesn't strike first, gives the casters time to negotiate surrender terms, then there's also time for a few enterprising casters to make a link and end the whole thing. If Parson DOES strike first, hard and fast, then there's no time to negotiate and so the casters backs are against the wall, there's fighting, is Parson really going to instruct his troops to capture casters alive?

And it only takes three casters, one of whom is a thinkamancer, to make a tri-link and blow the whole place sky-high in whatever way they feel like.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Lilwik » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:38 pm

ftl wrote:And it only takes three casters, one of whom is a thinkamancer, to make a tri-link and blow the whole place sky-high in whatever way they feel like.
It's not quite that simple. There are whole classes of casters who probably wouldn't be able to do that even if they were in a link. The Eyemancer link that Gobwin Knob had for a long time never seemed to have any capacity for blowing stuff up in an way at all. Hocus Pocus wouldn't be able to blow anything up either, and neither would Clevermancy.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby ftl » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:47 pm

Eh, I wouldn't be so sure. Links appear to be limited only by the imagination of the author. Lookamancer-thinkamancer-foolamancer link could do something like blind everybody (or make everybody invisible). I don't know anything about clevermancy, but I'm sure they're clever enough to find something game-breaking with their discipline.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby LordAcme » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:20 pm

Dark Matter wrote:
LordAcme wrote:The alarm will spread whether by Thinkamancy or running and shouting. All the MK WILL come in time, and not all that much time. Parson's Gotti is in a vise here, because he can't retreat without abandoning his new troops (highly unlikely), he can't kill ranged units at distance fast enough to win a battle of attrition through decryption ( a judgement call on my part, but I think an accurate one), and his other-side reinforcements are mainly melee, plus he can only replenish them as fast as he can step through the portal and throw their bodies for Decryption.

Point's kinda moot, because Janis will shut down the hex SO HARD if anything like that even starts to happen anyways. But w/e, if we were to game this, I totally want the MK side.
The Thinkamancers and Janis will stop Parson? And all casters will run (unstacked) into combat against the perfect warlord leading a zombie army backed up by an artifact, rather than flee back to the side they're loyal to?

Um... I think you're seriously overestimating the level of organization MK has.

How about this. Parson kills a few casters, and the rest flee back home. He now has to defend something which doesn't have fortifications, has hundreds of entrances, and he's pissed off basically all sides because he's got a back door everywhere. His actions unify EVERYONE against him.

I predict Parson will win this next battle, but he may strongly regret having done so.


That's certainly a possible outcome, but I have a completely different perception of the MK's responses. I don't believe they're all from other sides, for one thing. We know that it's a barbarian territory, and that means for all of those casters, it's home. They can flee elsewhere, but the sense I get is that they are willing to defend their turf without orders.

Example - Parson entered the MK in Book 1. The reaction? Every caster around instantly got ready to light him up. It was mere seconds since he'd ordered his linked casters through, and the numbers against him were like a dozen solid out of nowhere.

This time? He's entering the MK with TROOPS. Yes there are groups with agendas around him, but that doesn't mean they are the only casters in PP. And his entry is going to be a massive strain on his allies there. They're only working with him to defeat Charlie. Getting killed by him, losing the MK to a side or even facing an enforcement council because of their alliance is not in their plans.

One more note about MK casters. Why does everyone think they're not experienced in battle? All casters pop on sides originally, they're all level 1, and they all serve their side. That doesn't mean they've all got direct combat experience, but I would bet the majority of them have seen more than one battle.

If there were to be an opening volley (which there won't - Janis / Isaac will see to that), a couple of casters would fall to arrows, but the rest will return fire instantly before the melee fighters can reach them. I would not want to be in Parson's group when that happens.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Dark Matter » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:28 pm

ftl wrote:The thinkamancers and janis can definitely stop parson. They don't want to croak him, but the Thinkamancers at least have proven they have no qualms about interfering with him. Thinkamancer-Hippiemancer-X tri-link and bam, fighting over!
These would be the same Thinkamancers who are currently NOT stopping him? Who are watching him break all the rules by bringing in an army, presumably to kill JoJo(etc), without the slightest word of warning?

They interfered because they didn't want him dead, if they have to pick sides (and they do) then they will (and apparently already have). Ditto the Predictamancers, both groups know darn well it's about to hit the fan, but no words of warning to anyone.

And Janis is fated to serve Parson militarily, and actually wants him to conquer the world. Thus far she's only declared "peace" when it would help Parson.

Weirdly Parson's allies are acting like allies. JoJo and his crew shouldn't expect a lot of help from that lot.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby ftl » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:48 pm

Dark Matter wrote:These would be the same Thinkamancers who are currently NOT stopping him? Who are watching him break all the rules by bringing in an army, presumably to kill JoJo(etc), without the slightest word of warning?

They interfered because they didn't want him dead, if they have to pick sides (and they do) then they will (and apparently already have). Ditto the Predictamancers, both groups know darn well it's about to hit the fan, but no words of warning to anyone.

And Janis is fated to serve Parson militarily, and actually wants him to conquer the world. Thus far she's only declared "peace" when it would help Parson.

Weirdly Parson's allies are acting like allies. JoJo and his crew shouldn't expect a lot of help from that lot.


They're not really his allies. They have goals for him, but they want to live, too! If Parson starts slaughtering the MK (them included), I doubt they'll just step back and watch. This was a discussion of Parson vs the MK, after all.

I don't think this is going to end with mass slaughter in the MK, and I expect neither do they.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby thaco4 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:50 pm

I got a 50 rand bet there will be words between 'Joe Dirt' (looks bon jovi-ish to me) and Sizemore.

Lipkin wrote:At the very least, every side in Portal Park is going to start guarding their portals.


How are they going to know that when they are cut off? Only the sides that have casters in portal park have a chance of knowing what is happening, the rest will be unsuspecting.
Parson can literally turn portal park into a trap. As Casters enter Magic Kingdom they leave portal park to a different part of the island yes? Ambush parties on all exits out of portal park. Decrypted Casters themselves expand the influence around the island. Snowball effect and Magic Kingdom goes dark to the rest of Erfworld.
- Proofs
Beginning of Chapter 1 Sizemore is in MK too long past the start of GK's turn and Wanna goes to get him. Ergo - sides with 2+ casters send another to check in on a missing caster.
After the battle in Portal park sizemore + 'Joe Dirt'/Bon Jovi level remainder of pyramid make Portal Park look untouched.
Parson/Wanna now has 20+ casters decrypted a few ordered to wander the park to make it seem normal.
Set 2 to 3 Stacks on each exit from portal park going to the rest of the island.With 1 Warlord, 2 to 4 casters + all killed then decrypted and give them Ambush orders for all passing casters entering or leaving portal park.
Have 2 stacks of casters with a couple grunts + 1 warlord (Parsons) wander MK until all are converted.

MK is conquered.
Indeed
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Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Lipkin » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:28 am

thaco4 wrote:I got a 50 rand bet there will be words between 'Joe Dirt' (looks bon jovi-ish to me) and Sizemore.

Lipkin wrote:At the very least, every side in Portal Park is going to start guarding their portals.


How are they going to know that when they are cut off? Only the sides that have casters in portal park have a chance of knowing what is happening, the rest will be unsuspecting.
Parson can literally turn portal park into a trap. As Casters enter Magic Kingdom they leave portal park to a different part of the island yes? Ambush parties on all exits out of portal park. Decrypted Casters themselves expand the influence around the island. Snowball effect and Magic Kingdom goes dark to the rest of Erfworld.
- Proofs
Beginning of Chapter 1 Sizemore is in MK too long past the start of GK's turn and Wanna goes to get him. Ergo - sides with 2+ casters send another to check in on a missing caster.
After the battle in Portal park sizemore + 'Joe Dirt'/Bon Jovi level remainder of pyramid make Portal Park look untouched.
Parson/Wanna now has 20+ casters decrypted a few ordered to wander the park to make it seem normal.
Set 2 to 3 Stacks on each exit from portal park going to the rest of the island.With 1 Warlord, 2 to 4 casters + all killed then decrypted and give them Ambush orders for all passing casters entering or leaving portal park.
Have 2 stacks of casters with a couple grunts + 1 warlord (Parsons) wander MK until all are converted.

MK is conquered.
What you just described was quite a bit more than sides guarding their portals. I meant that even if no physical conflict occurs, and Parson just exchanges words with various people in the Magic Kingdom, changes will still be made. At the very least, portals will be guarded from now on. No one will want to be caught with their pants down.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Drongo2 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:42 am

Parson doesn't need to take on the entire MK, he only needs to take out hostile forces. A simple "Turn or be croaked" or "Stack or be croaked" ultimatum would suffice. No room for neutrality any more - the casters are either with GK or against them. It's safe to say that whatever Parson intends to do has had the odds of success calculated by his bracer.

There is no need to decrypt all the casters in the MK just the hostile ones like the carnies. Casters in the MK don't cost maintenance so it would be a great place for GK casters to live until they are needed.

I don't see the MK casters being able to create link-ups if tGMtTA are on Parson's side.

Has Parson left Ace and Jack behind because he doesn't want to risk them?

By conquering the MK GK can then enter capitals through the portals to wipe out many sides. Send some expendable casters through to secure the portal room then follow with Wanda and some corpses. Parson will want to go with his forces to gain xp and give bonuses. Wanda will need to be there to decrypt and give bonuses but both will want to head back to the MK before the enemy's portal disappears.

I reckon Parson then needs to take out the following sides in this order:
1) Charlescom - get Charlie by surprise and claim the arkendish. Charlie then wont be contacting other sides to rally them against GK.
2) Jetstone - finish the job they started. If Jetstone lose there capital then I'd imagine that King Tramennis will go barbarian (please correct me if I'm wrong).
3) FAQ - Parson already said he wants revenge. Destroying their capital should make Jillian and crew go barbarian.
4) Transylvito - don't know if Parson knows of their involvement but he should find out if Vinny gets decrypted at FAQ. Turning Charlie would also help Parson learn who his secret enemies are.
5) Haggar - Haggar did just wipe out a GK army but Parson may prefer an alliance if he learns how Charlie forced them to act.

This could continue until all capitals have been claimed or Parson and Wanda get trapped by portal destruction.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby drachefly » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:48 am

Drongo2 wrote:Casters in the MK don't cost maintenance so it would be a great place for GK casters to live until they are needed.


Casters in the MK do have upkeep. Whatever gave you any other idea?


The rest of your plan is so much unlike Parson it would ruin the entire story.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:18 pm

drachefly wrote:
Drongo2 wrote:Casters in the MK don't cost maintenance so it would be a great place for GK casters to live until they are needed.


Casters in the MK do have upkeep. Whatever gave you any other idea?


The rest of your plan is so much unlike Parson it would ruin the entire story.

Indeed, but at the same time it has remained somewhat at odds that they can support themselves as well as they do. We know that casters are very expensive units to maintain, and that casters in MK need to pay their own maintenance out of their own (very limited) purse, gems, or pre-bought rations. But there seems to be a big question of how many of them can afford to stay around. Everything we've heard has said that a predictamancer that has lost her side is basically viewed as a total failure, so how is Marie keeping herself alive? Some of the other caster types might be a little suspect as well, such as hippymancers who most likely wouldn't hire (though there was mention of them growing mushrooms that Sizemore liked so much, so maybe they can burn juice to support themselves with magically grown food). I'm sure that shockamancers and healomancers (that aren't killed) are rolling in gems, and some of the others can likely support themselves directly through their magic (carnies rig upkeep, moneymancers cancel theirs, etc). And then there are some like thinkamancers that every side is going to want from time to time. Croakamancers (though we've yet to see a single one besides Wanda... or even heard one mentioned that I can recall) are unlikely to be popular hires, as, while they can be quite effective, they're kind of all or nothing types.

So, while I agree that MK doesn't negate upkeep, it might have some other kind of special trait about the hex which reduces their upkeep, or allows them to convert juice into upkeep, or otherwise makes it easier to survive. Keep in mind that Jillian, who has three cities under her control, is seriously concerned about a single caster eating up her coffers. Granted that's with the rest of her units, but the rest of her units aren't that numerous.

Oh, and I second the 'doesn't seem like parson' idea as well.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby 0beron » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:43 pm

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:[The MK] might have some other kind of special trait about the hex which reduces their upkeep, or allows them to convert juice into upkeep, or otherwise makes it easier to survive.
I don't think that needs to be the case to explain their survival. Remember that Jillian Foraged to satisfy her upkeep, and personally I don't think she ate very much compared to how much her upkeep must be as a high level Warlord. So food grown by Florists is probably sufficient. Everyone can probably do enough work to earn the Rands to pay for it.
Predictamancers for example, perhaps nobody will hire them, but I'm sure other MK casters consult them to check out potential contracts. So there must be ways every caster can at least help one another well enough to earn Rands.
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Re: Book 2 - Page 113

Postby Lilwik » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:44 pm

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:Everything we've heard has said that a predictamancer that has lost her side is basically viewed as a total failure, so how is Marie keeping herself alive?
Maybe she Predicts where she will be needed and gets allies from desperate sides that can't do without her help. Or perhaps other casters can't resist the temptation to buy a fortune telling.

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:Some of the other caster types might be a little suspect as well, such as hippymancers who most likely wouldn't hire (though there was mention of them growing mushrooms that Sizemore liked so much, so maybe they can burn juice to support themselves with magically grown food).
That's not burning juice; that's just normal farming, which is supposedly a common technique for generating upkeep in the wild, along with mining and hunting. Hippiemancers probably use juice to make their farming more effective, but it's not necessary. Any unit could support itself that way. Some fugitives are clearly able to support themselves by living off the land. So if you don't think Croakamancers would be hired (something I suspect you are wrong about), they can at least get upkeep for themselves off the land. See Word of the Titans 6051503.
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