Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

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Re: Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Kaed » Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:32 pm

If we're going to be frank, LTDave, you are juggling your own games and a quarter of the time I feel like your attention isn't entirely on the game because you keep asking me to reinterate things, and (though this isn't your fault) the other bits I'm just dog tired from work and the side you picked up just has a lot of negative feelings attached to it, from the previous player. I have tried to reply to your orders several times, but to be frank, just trying is liable to grind all progress to a halt as I feel like just walking away, then bad for letting you down, then don't want to update other people because I'm neglecting you.

I hate Erf Command, not you, and if other players had not encountered the side and thus cemented it into the game I would have loved to let you design your side. But Kevin has met people and I can't retconjure him away.

You know what helps though? Showing that you bloody care and want to play. Both you and koliup share a common problem - I'm not the most organized titan, often I'm rather scatterbrained. But NEITHER of you popped by to say "hey dude, remember me? i was having fun, get with it."

THIS is why you two are being booted. Yes, I neglected you, I've neglected everyone. But you two are not interactive, don't seem to care unless I'm pulling the rug out from under you. You two are the people in the tabletop session who sit quietly and watch everything with the bare minimum effort and contribution. I like having fun too, I'm not TitanBot

There may be other games later, and you can try again then. Or you can be huffy and never talk to me again. i'm not losing sleep over it.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Exate » Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:09 pm

With Koliup gone, my mind is filling with visions of his side, much like a side whose player goes AI in certain multiplayer turn-based games, spontaneously dropping all pretense of diplomacy and rabidly attacking everyone even remotely close to them with all forces available.

I would be much happier about this if the relative geography involved put him next to someone else.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:31 pm

I would love to step in as the bloodthirsty AI that tries to crush whatever it can find without thought for serious expansion or stabilization of territory or anything. But then the Titan would likely be not changing much overall, as there would still be an extra player. Perhaps better to go with the opposite type of AI that just focuses on mad turtling.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Acorntail » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:19 pm

Kaed, would you like some help with managing the game? I could make you some helpful programs for tracking things.

Although, if you're on your phone a lot, programs wouldn't help that much.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Sir Shadow » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:23 pm

Unless you can also program Apps.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Acorntail » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:37 pm

Sir Shadow wrote:Unless you can also program Apps.


Depends on the phone. Android you're golden, but I have neither the money nor the computer to write apps for iOS devices.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Kaed » Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:58 pm

I'm intrigued by this offer, and since I will be getting a new laptop somewhere in august I may take you up on that.

If you can make a hexmap program than features terrain exploration, side based fog of war, and the ability to move simple tokens around and maybe even zoom in and out, I would legit PAY you. Because all I would have to do is move things and screenshot.

I'm tearing up at the just the thought
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Re: Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Acorntail » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:07 pm

Kaed wrote:I'm intrigued by this offer, and since I will be getting a new laptop somewhere in august I may take you up on that.

If you can make a hexmap program than features terrain exploration, side based fog of war, and the ability to move simple tokens around and maybe even zoom in and out, I would legit PAY you. Because all I would have to do is move things and screenshot.

I'm tearing up at the just the thought


Can do. I'll see what I can put together. Estimating about three weeks to do this, but then, never trust an estimate. XD
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Re: Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Exate » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:34 pm

Yeah, that would be utterly priceless for this kind of game. It could probably be managed several ways without making things spiral wildly out of control... my instinct would be to do it while centering everything on a single "hex" object, which then tracks that hex's position on the map, terrain type, and whether it's been explored by each existing side.

Then by iterating through all the hexes you could create maps with filtering based upon what each side can see.

Once you have that in place, you can start building in expansion options. Does the hex have any units in it? Do sides which have explored it have it outside their current view (that is, it should be terrain-revealed but fog of war'd to that side)? You could automatically determine which hexes are in current view based upon unit position and hex adjacency.

Expand on this even further and it can be the basis for running random Erfworld-level natural magic effects that the Titan normally implements on a fairly arbitrary and ad hoc basis, like we were discussing in this thread way back. Does this hex pop a wild unit this turn? What kind of wild unit? Does it have any weather effects? What about supplies which might be foraged? Do random magic items or artifacts pop?

...I should probably just sit back and let the programmer do his own thing instead of dreaming ambitious dreams which depend upon someone else's work. It's been a long while since I touched any code, anyway.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Lord of Monies » Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:11 am

The wheels are turning that herald in a new age of Erfgame. Technology, less concerns for the DM, but most of all, I won't feel bad about taking out an AI side so I can steadily begin mobilising! Verrrrry steadliy anyhow. Course, now he's an AI what's to stop him from mobilising his own forces and seeking me out? I really wanna talk to a predictamancer, but not sure how that would work exactly in this game.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

Postby 0beron » Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:11 am

In my game I'm mostly leaving them out because they're more difficult to run in a world that definitely has free will. So they could predict the actions of AI sides, and some small simple things (plus their combat ability) but for the most part from a plot perspective, if my player were to try and hire a Predictamancer to predict a serious thing, I'd just have them reply "I cannot interfere with this future, my involvement would cause pain and suffering for you, ect ect"
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Re: Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Kaed » Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:18 am

Hee hee hee.

Just because you have free will doesn't mean you don't have a fate. Neither does it mean you have one.

Fate is there whether someone tells you about it or not. The predictamancer is just the messenger.

Alas, for your peace of mind.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Sir Shadow » Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:37 am

0beron wrote:In my game I'm mostly leaving them out because they're more difficult to run in a world that definitely has free will. So they could predict the actions of AI sides, and some small simple things (plus their combat ability) but for the most part from a plot perspective, if my player were to try and hire a Predictamancer to predict a serious thing, I'd just have them reply "I cannot interfere with this future, my involvement would cause pain and suffering for you, ect ect"
Good thing I'm generally wary of predictamancers anyways :P

But small things, like battles, you can use predictamancers for. Like, "If I attack here, does the enemy have enough forces to retake the city in 2 turns?" They could also predict the unseen dice rolls and such...
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Re: Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Lord of Monies » Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:56 am

That sounds more like a mathmancy question as you're asking about the numbers and the likelihood of them achieving those numbers. Predictamancy would more likely be asking each turn "will combat occur in our battlespace today?" to which the answer may be no, or yes, but in either case likely be missing a lot of details that you would prefer. Like where. And how many. That's fine though, I don't care much about that as I'll simply do the best I can. I just want to know if my current capital will fall to a specific force. If no, then I know I'm safe to do a few slightly reckless things, but must also be aware that safety could still suffer heavy casualties.

A lot of nuance and unknowns with predictamancy, but Daphnes is a big believer and follower of Fate. It's the Titans' way of delivering purpose, while at the same time being up to us to decide what that purpose means.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Sir Shadow » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:02 pm

I think Predictamancy can be a lot more specific. Marie knew which cities enemy units were going to be by and when so that Jack could use his illusions.

She also knew exactly when Wanda would be successful at shooting down Olive or her broom.

EDIT: Also, I picture mathamancy as hard numbers and statistics. Mathamancy tells you how the numbers MAY fall, Predictamancy tells you how the numbers WILL fall.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Lord of Monies » Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:21 pm

Marie might not have known what units were coming, they simply found out when they moved nearby, but certainly she could tell if something would approach and needed to be hidden from. I doubt she knew who and how many.

The question for Wanda to shoot was a pretty straightforward question, no real room for obscurity so yes she would get a definite answer. Either way, it's still Fate which is finnicky and mysterious.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:18 pm

Marie also needed the help of Orwell. Recall that the party returning from FAQ wasn't safe until they were in Orwell's range, not Marie's. What was happening was Marie was predicting if enemy units would enter certain hexes next turn, including the three city hexes, then hexes that Jillian might use as safe points, with Orwell checking that there weren't -already- units in those hexes, along with the hexes along the path.

As for the other question, "If I attack here, does the enemy have enough forces to retake the city in 2 turns?" that would likely require a stack of juice. The more specific you want to be with a prediction, and the further out you want it, the harder it is to make. So you might get an answer to that, but you'd more likely get an answer to if the enemy will enter the city's hex again in the near future. A Mathamancer would only be able to answer this question if you knew all the forces that could be popped and reach in 2 turns, but he could also tell you this turn, 1 turn, 3 turns, etc. and give you exact chances. The Predictamancer may just say "The enemy will enter that hex soon." You might also get some odd results from that question... like they wouldn't have enough forces to retake the city... but they try anway and get super lucky. Or the opposite. They may only have a single piker able to attack in the next 2 turns, but if he got super lucky, he could take it, so yes, they have enough forces to take the city, just not reliably.

Oh, and for the programming thing, you might consider using Battle for Wesnoth to get your hex stuff done easily. I've never messed with the editor much, but I think you'd be able to do basically all the stuff you want with that, and it would look amazing.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Exate » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:24 pm

GenCon's in a couple weeks. It comes complete with an Erfworld fan event this year at which we can mob an unsuspecting Titan with incessant questions and effusive praise. Anyone else going to be there?
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Re: Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:12 pm

Wish I could go, but I'm about to drop over 1k on a trip out of country, so can't really afford a bunch of hotel nights as well. (not to mention vacation time) And honestly I barely know what I'd do at something like that. I'm overwhelmed at the prospect.
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Re: Erfgame 3 (CLOSED) - Rules and Discussion

Postby Kaed » Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:18 pm

Given the sultan's increasingly impressive displays of paranoia, I predict at least 20 turns before he disbands his entire side and locks himself inside his tower to gibber at the moon and keep an eye on his shadow so it doesn't try any funny business.
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