Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Page by page discussion of the comic.

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Postby Zippy the Squirrel » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:00 am

kiyote wrote:
Jabberwocky wrote:
Menas wrote:Yes, can Olive or King Banhammer just die now please? They're both too irritating to let live.


I do hope the text updates cover Banhammer's death. Wanda throwing down with Banhammer could be extremely awesome, particularly if they have a philosophical debate while she beats him to death with his own arm.


You do realize that this can't happen, right? Jillian was heir to FAQ when FAQ fell, not the ruler, and Banhammer is shown to be leading a circle with Wanda in it way back in book 1.

Banhammer survives this, though safe quatloons are on Olive doesn't...


I think they mean they hope the text updates eventually cover Stanley's attack on FAQ.


As for Banhammer potentially having been a powerful warlord who saw too much war and retired to a bubble kingdom.. I doubt it, extremely. I really think he was just some heir or royal unit that was granted or obtained the bubble kingdom without ever having to fight for it. His sheer incompetence and actual tactical suicide (disbanding one of your own units to preserve the life of a prisoner?!) would be entirely out of character for a warlord king with battle experience.


Where is the Garden, anyway? I thought it was within the city limits, which was now under FAQ control, so how or who did raze it? And if it was outside the City, how does the Garden burning affect units in another hex? Whose turn is it, anyway? (The gameworld where your Fate's made up for you and your stats don't matter!)


Oh, speaking of Fate, I'm thinking that Fate is an actual Presence within the game, with either motivations or methods/means to its ends. Recall, Sylvester Stallfate was clearly Fated to burn to death inside an enemy garrison... it just took a couple times to stick. I'm trying to think of other Fates that couldn't be avoided... Wanda was fated to work for Haffaton; she attempted to fight that but ended up under Olive's control anyway. Olive, or at least the Ruler of Haffaton, has been Fated to die by Jillian's hands, and Jill has definitely been trying really hard to make that Fate happen. Perhaps she's being subtly influenced by whatever force controls Fate? I'm thinking Fate is an actual character in this comic, like Death from the Final Destination series -- never seen, but always present. I think Charlie has also been Fated to die somehow, but has put the same Denial of Fate spell on himself as Sylpherioth, since certain scenarios seem to repeat whenever he's involved in something.
Image
User avatar
Zippy the Squirrel
Pins Supporter!
Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:53 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Postby No one in particular » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:02 am

Depending on how potent Hero Buds are, and how much smoke it takes before you can smell it burning...

Has anyone considered that Banhammer's recent behavior (flipping a table, disbanding a gwiffon, saying the trial didn't matter & they'd keep Olive alive anyway) might be judgement impairment from the start of a low-level hero buzz?

Loj isn't dumb, he's just high. Just tossing that out there.
"Are you always so pessimistic?"
"Not at all. I saved it for my last battle."
---
Got questions? Ask Count Downer!
User avatar
No one in particular
 
Posts: 530
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:48 pm
Location: Nowhere Atoll

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Postby 0beron » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:42 am

No one in particular wrote:Loj isn't dumb, he's just high. Just tossing that out there.

Interesting/nice theory, but I'm not sure I buy it. True we know that Charlie has archons everywhere and he can act quickly...but do we really think he could have done that immediately after finding out about Olive? Cus Banhammer's exceptionally stupid behavior was almost immediate, so Charlie would have needed to start the burn within seconds...when it's not even his turn.
Remember this is the center of Haffaton, and Charlie only keeps Archons near 'hot spots'. Why would the center of a growing side be a hot spot, given that there hasn't been any thinkagrams for him to hack to find out about this before now?
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Postby Zippy the Squirrel » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:55 am

No one in particular wrote:Loj isn't dumb, he's just high. Just tossing that out there.


I decided to skip all the way back to when Banhammer and his raiding party first appeared to rescue Jillian, and I'd have to say that, no, he's clearly an imbecile. He wasted FAQ's chance of decapitating Haffaton by parleying with Wanda, who stalled long enough for Olive to cast her peace song. Specifically, "Wanda would ask a ten word question and receive a 500 word answer."

His recent wroth behavior is a result of his and Jillian's conflicting morals, coupled with the fact that he's had a unit disobey his direct orders repeatedly and without disbanding automatically. A frustrated, arrogant, proud, stupid man who is in love with a woman that is being targeted with violence is King Loj the Inept.
Image
User avatar
Zippy the Squirrel
Pins Supporter!
Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:53 am

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Postby No one in particular » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:05 pm

0beron wrote:
No one in particular wrote:Loj isn't dumb, he's just high. Just tossing that out there.

Interesting/nice theory, but I'm not sure I buy it. True we know that Charlie has archons everywhere and he can act quickly...but do we really think he could have done that immediately after finding out about Olive? Cus Banhammer's exceptionally stupid behavior was almost immediate, so Charlie would have needed to start the burn within seconds...when it's not even his turn.
Remember this is the center of Haffaton, and Charlie only keeps Archons near 'hot spots'. Why would the center of a growing side be a hot spot, given that there hasn't been any thinkagrams for him to hack to find out about this before now?

Paranoia/sentimentality, maybe? El-Efbaum is his former home, where he was driven out by his own daughter, who was the person who came closest to managing to croak him.

Alternately, depending on what people have been thinking to each other, Charlie might know about the "Wanda's precious Warlady will croak Haffaton's Ruler" prediction and wanted to see how things played out. Recall, Jillian DID randomly bump into 3 archons hanging around in the middle of Haffaton space back in IPTSF 46...
"Are you always so pessimistic?"
"Not at all. I saved it for my last battle."
---
Got questions? Ask Count Downer!
User avatar
No one in particular
 
Posts: 530
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:48 pm
Location: Nowhere Atoll

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Postby technojunkie » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:54 pm

0beron wrote:but do we really think he could have done that immediately after finding out about Olive? Cus Banhammer's exceptionally stupid behavior was almost immediate, so Charlie would have needed to start the burn within seconds...when it's not even his turn.


You presume it was Charlie who set the field afire. It's possible (although improbable given the context of her refusal to surrender 'the g-') that Olive mentally ordered the blaze be set. Given that it's still Haffaton's turn, any particle effect of Haffaton's actions can cross hex boundaries...
User avatar
technojunkie
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Pins Supporter!
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:36 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Postby No one in particular » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:14 pm

technojunkie wrote:
0beron wrote:but do we really think he could have done that immediately after finding out about Olive? Cus Banhammer's exceptionally stupid behavior was almost immediate, so Charlie would have needed to start the burn within seconds...when it's not even his turn.


You presume it was Charlie who set the field afire. It's possible (although improbable given the context of her refusal to surrender 'the g-') that Olive mentally ordered the blaze be set. Given that it's still Haffaton's turn, any particle effect of Haffaton's actions can cross hex boundaries...


That depends on what a Prisoner can do. Can a Ruler make that command while captive?
"Are you always so pessimistic?"
"Not at all. I saved it for my last battle."
---
Got questions? Ask Count Downer!
User avatar
No one in particular
 
Posts: 530
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:48 pm
Location: Nowhere Atoll

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Postby Whispri » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:45 pm

Well leaving aside that Olive could have given the orders before she was captured, her input isn't needed, as Wanda reported the presence of Haffaton Warlord(s) within strike range. Providing they know what the flowers do? They just start a blaze upwind on their own initiative, then send in the Uncroaked soldiers.
Whispri
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
YOTD + Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 643
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 9:02 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Postby Not Me » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:58 pm

Lilwik wrote:No, if Fate can be fought then it needs to be foreshadowed. Predictamancers are giving up plenty of indication that Fate is absolute with their total confidence in every Prediction, so there needs to be something to balance that before we get defying Fate thrown at us as an important event. Maybe someone could mention that Fate can sometimes be defied under certain precise circumstances, or maybe Olive could find a way to fight Fate in Book 0 to give us reason to anticipate that Parson might be able to do it in the future.

If we get nothing to indicate that Fate can be defied, then Parson eventually defying Fate would be coming out of nowhere and that would be what really undermines the tension in the story. Just like deus ex machina it would make the plot unsatisfying because it means Parson wins by suddenly developing a previously unknown superpower that lets him defy Fate when no one else ever has.


Well, you could consider "foreshadowing" all the chat between Jojo and Parson down the tunnel in the MK.

- Yes, Parson Gotti, Lord of Hamsters, do you believe that Fate is a might wind? One that propels us inexorably to our final destination?
Or do you believe that the individual can steer the ship of self, to his port of choice, however emphatically the world may try to blow him?
...
- I don't have time to discuss it, Jojo.
- Good! Because there is nothing to discuss! The answer is known. You can fight Fate. And win!
Not Me
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:30 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Postby technojunkie » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:09 pm

No one in particular wrote:That depends on what a Prisoner can do. Can a Ruler make that command while captive?


One could infer from the story, that Jillian and Wanda believe she can.

Not Me wrote:
Well, you could consider "foreshadowing" all the chat between Jojo and Parson down the tunnel in the MK.

- Yes, Parson Gotti, Lord of Hamsters, do you believe that Fate is a might wind? One that propels us inexorably to our final destination?
Or do you believe that the individual can steer the ship of self, to his port of choice, however emphatically the world may try to blow him?
...
- I don't have time to discuss it, Jojo.
- Good! Because there is nothing to discuss! The answer is known. You can fight Fate. And win!


You raise an interesting example. Especially when you consider what happened when Parson actually attempted to read the scroll.
Last edited by technojunkie on Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
technojunkie
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Pins Supporter!
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:36 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Postby Free Radical » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:12 pm

Given that Jack was worried about Charlie continuing to negotiate with Olive by thinkamancy even when she's a prisoner, and that we know from the battle of Jetstone that Charlie can use the Arkendish to link with a caster who isn't even part of his side (Vanna was working with FAQ), I wonder if there's anything at all stopping Charlie from making a link with Olive as long as she accepts?

From the suddenness of Banhammer's turnaround on wanting to go through a full trial to get the truth, I also wonder if it's because with a link to the dish she's suddenly become able to cast again and used something akin to the spell Wanda used on Jillian in book 1, leaving him to think up his own rationalisations for helping her. A prisoner in a long-distance caster link by Arkendish to a non-prisoner is such a weird occurrence I doubt anyone on Erfworld apart from Charlie would even realise it's possible, and if Charlie could cast through her location, any rules Jillian has been assuming on captive casters not being able to cast might no longer apply.
Free Radical
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:35 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Postby Dalen Mantil » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:13 pm

No one in particular wrote:
technojunkie wrote:
0beron wrote:but do we really think he could have done that immediately after finding out about Olive? Cus Banhammer's exceptionally stupid behavior was almost immediate, so Charlie would have needed to start the burn within seconds...when it's not even his turn.


You presume it was Charlie who set the field afire. It's possible (although improbable given the context of her refusal to surrender 'the g-') that Olive mentally ordered the blaze be set. Given that it's still Haffaton's turn, any particle effect of Haffaton's actions can cross hex boundaries...


That depends on what a Prisoner can do. Can a Ruler make that command while captive?

She doesn't need to have. Jillian herself set the fire, unknowingly, back in Episode 065:

“Fate can suck a sweaty sausage!” said Jillian, making a pair of fists. What, was the entire game rigged against Faq? Small chances she could deal with, but zero chance was just unfair. Was that how the Titans played, for real? The world was run by cheaters? Everything was all Carnymancy? “Shoot the broom, then!” she snapped. “The broom’s the problem, right? Shoot for the dismount, ’n let her fall inside the city!”

...

Marie cleared her throat. “It tuns out Fate doesn’t motch care for that broom,” she said, sounding strangely amused. “Princess, you should ordah the gwiffons to fly below her. Wanda, take my hand, please.”

Brooms burn. And Olive can (quite literally) go die in a fire.

With that, the court of Faq is free to go back home, the tension between Banhammer and Jillian remains unresolved (as it seemingly still was at the time Stanley croaked him), and Fate has Jillian croak the Ruler of Haffaton...from a certain point of view...
Last edited by Dalen Mantil on Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:29 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Dalen Mantil
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:32 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Postby 0beron » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:16 pm

technojunkie wrote:
No one in particular wrote:That depends on what a Prisoner can do. Can a Ruler make that command while captive?
One could infer from the story, that Jillian and Wanda believe she can.

Jillian and Wanda may be inferring that units are already on there way here because Olive ordered it while she was still free. That or her units know where she is and realize she has been captured, so they will come to protect her. Olive doesn't need to be able to issue orders while captive in order for FAQ to still be in trouble.
A more relevant/concrete example is the fact that Jillian got cut off from Banhammer's Natural Thinkamancy while she was a captive, so I'd say it's more safe to assume the same is true in reverse.

Semirelated, good point Dalen :)
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
User avatar
0beron
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
YOTD + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:52 pm
Location: Morlock Wells

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Postby Jinren » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:17 pm

technojunkie wrote:
0beron wrote:but do we really think he could have done that immediately after finding out about Olive? Cus Banhammer's exceptionally stupid behavior was almost immediate, so Charlie would have needed to start the burn within seconds...when it's not even his turn.


You presume it was Charlie who set the field afire. It's possible (although improbable given the context of her refusal to surrender 'the g-') that Olive mentally ordered the blaze be set. Given that it's still Haffaton's turn, any particle effect of Haffaton's actions can cross hex boundaries...


Important question: did Charlie want her to surrender it for his use, or for destruction?

If it's the latter, all he needed to know is that she was no longer in a position to obstruct him, and could have given the order to burn it pretty much as soon as the call began when he saw she was in chains. She would have been a couple of steps behind, thinking she still had any chips to bargain with.
Jinren
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:23 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Postby technojunkie » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:26 pm

Jinren wrote:
technojunkie wrote:
0beron wrote:but do we really think he could have done that immediately after finding out about Olive? Cus Banhammer's exceptionally stupid behavior was almost immediate, so Charlie would have needed to start the burn within seconds...when it's not even his turn.


You presume it was Charlie who set the field afire. It's possible (although improbable given the context of her refusal to surrender 'the g-') that Olive mentally ordered the blaze be set. Given that it's still Haffaton's turn, any particle effect of Haffaton's actions can cross hex boundaries...


Important question: did Charlie want her to surrender it for his use, or for destruction?

If it's the latter, all he needed to know is that she was no longer in a position to obstruct him, and could have given the order to burn it pretty much as soon as the call began when he saw she was in chains. She would have been a couple of steps behind, thinking she still had any chips to bargain with.


The reverse is also possible (again presuming she could give orders) Olive may have ordered it's destruction to prevent Charlie getting it.

Dalen, you do raise an interesting possibility...
User avatar
technojunkie
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Pins Supporter!
Tool + YOTD + Erfabet + Pins Supporter!
 
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:36 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Postby Doctor Foreman » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:49 pm

Dalen's suggestion reminds me of the sub-plot in Romance of the Three Kingdoms where Zhou Yu needs the wind to blow in a certain direction for his own ships not to catch on fire.
"If you leave out important things or events that you know about, the story is strengthened. If you leave or skip something because you do not know it, the story will be worthless." - Hemingway
Doctor Foreman
 
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:22 am
Location: Not Constantinople.

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:13 pm

I like the broom idea, but it seems kind of on the sudden side. I mean, we don't have an exact time on how long the trial has been going on, but I figure it has to have been at least a good hour or so since Olive was captured. I'm no firefighter, but I think a fire that would grow to be so big would have done so quicker than that. Course, Erfworld physics could be in effect as well. If the garden is in a different hex (which it may or may not be) it may have taken this long to go inferno at which point the smoke is getting into adjacent hexes.

The timing seems a bit too good though. Any earlier and Jillian would have killed Olive easy. Any later and Olive likely would have been better secured.
Taikei no Yuurei
Tool + Erfabet Supporter!
Tool + Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Postby Doctor Foreman » Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:22 pm

Taikei no Yuurei wrote:I'm no firefighter, but I think a fire that would grow to be so big would have done so quicker than that. Course, Erfworld physics could be in effect as well.

That's sort of the answer to your question. As we've seen and Parson himself has noted, fire in Erfworld doesn't really emulate how fire works on Earth. There's also the matter of how time passes in Erfworld, which is still a finicky business.

The timing seems a bit too good though. Any earlier and Jillian would have killed Olive easy. Any later and Olive likely would have been better secured.

Well, fate does happen to be a recurring theme of the comic...
"If you leave out important things or events that you know about, the story is strengthened. If you leave or skip something because you do not know it, the story will be worthless." - Hemingway
Doctor Foreman
 
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:22 am
Location: Not Constantinople.

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Postby No one in particular » Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:22 pm

Yeah, that sounds like Fate dicking them over, alright. :p
"Are you always so pessimistic?"
"Not at all. I saved it for my last battle."
---
Got questions? Ask Count Downer!
User avatar
No one in particular
 
Posts: 530
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:48 pm
Location: Nowhere Atoll

Re: Inner Peace (Through Superior Firepower) – Episode 070

Postby Taikei no Yuurei » Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:34 pm

Yeah, but you'd think fate would mess with them in such a way to have Jillian kill Olive, not give Olive a chance to escape. Though, maybe she kills her in the escape attempt, making it so Loj can't condemn her for it (publicly at least).
Taikei no Yuurei
Tool + Erfabet Supporter!
Tool + Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:55 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Reactions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: zeuspro and 12 guests