Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

Postby Jabberwocky » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:09 pm

youngstormlord wrote:"Ace Hardware could fix that."


So, Ace really wants to get his hands on Parson's junk.

Bro - (ó ì_í)=óò=(ì_í ò) - mance powers... ACTIVATE! Shape of a Bro!

I am now shipping Ace/Parson. And I will be sharing my fanfic.

Ah, the classic conflict of Career vs Love~! How is a soul to choose?


Why does he need to choose? He can just murder Cubbins and have him Decrypted, then we can have a steamy Love Broangle.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

Postby atalex » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:33 pm

crex90 wrote:
Also looking forward to seeing the "Sizemore Update". Poor guy. This whole situation is probably not helping his Magic Kingdom cred much, and I think his "unwilling pacifist drawn into conflict for the greater good" storyline is a lot more compelling than Jannis's.



Agreed. Janis is, IMO, simply a hypocrite. She knowingly set this whole "war on war itself" thing in motion, and now she balks at the foreseeable results of her continued involvement. Sizemore, OTOH, plainly wants nothing to do with all this and would probably leave Parson if it weren't for the combination of Duty and Janis's guilt-tripping.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

Postby Zeku » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:08 pm

Just chiming in to say that the Wizard of Oz is getting too much play.

Charlie is a parallel of the actual Wizard of Oz, so much so that I no longer believe he is a Stupidworlder.
All the witches have been referenced at some point
Dorothy/Judy was a temporary character
The red shoes are an Arkentool
I'm pretty sure Dorothy's companions were referenced
Was a tornado referenced?

This is where it needs to stop. Unless Rob has a plot-critical tie-in to the actual Wizard of Oz movie, this reference has been exhausted.

This is the perfect stopping point, also, since most of the references so far have been pretty good.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

Postby KKdragonlord » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:23 pm

No one in particular wrote:Does this lessen Stanley's Toolist message, by showing that Attuning, though rare, is NOT the ultimate blessing of the Titans after all?
Will this get Blair to join with Parson, so she can get the 'Dish back from Charlie?
Will this get Blair to join Charlie, so she can be with the 'Dish again?
Can they attune at the same time, and if so, will that divide the power between them or multiply it?


It doesn't really lessen Toolism
the Tools are effectively game breaking artefacts themselves, being capable of attuning to them means to be special in a way that can completely change the world.
Royals are supposedly special because of their higher stats while "Attuned" are special because they can be powerful beyond measure.

I would think that its probably not possible for multiple attuned use the same tool at the same time, though this is a blank slate for future plot twists.
Imagine if Charlie makes a backup plan that allows him to transfer his conciousness somewhere with the Arkendish

or maybe he manages to fool everyone into thinking he had been croaked but instead hides out somewhere and figures out a way to hack into the Arkendish from a distance so that when Parson thinks GK is the only one to have use of it, Charlie still has access.

Ultimately tough, these possibilities are usally kept undecided upon until the narrative comes around to having a use for them.

Multiplying the power of a tool is hard to fathom, they are already limitless in many ways.

*(on an unrelated note, i just imagined parson using the arkenshoes on a hamster wheel to generate infinte electricity :p)
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

Postby KKdragonlord » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:39 pm

Zeku wrote:This is where it needs to stop. Unless Rob has a plot-critical tie-in to the actual Wizard of Oz movie, this reference has been exhausted.


You mean, other than the fact that Parson was summoned to Erfworld at the exact same time he made a reference to "doing the wizard of Oz thing"?

Erfworld is itself a big reference to Oz

The fact that there was a lot of worldbuilding in book 0 that was revealed rather recently, and is now being tied to the main arc as the current story gets close to being knit together with the past, is sufficient to account for the seemingly overabundance of references.

While Dorothy being summoned to Erfworld is supposedly an indication that others had come to Erfworld before Parson, which would mean that Erf is at least as real as Parson's reality is, in our world she is nothing but a character in a story, just like in Parson's world. So either in Parson's reality Dorothy had been a movie based on a true story (somehow) or it is just another clue that Parson is really dreaming this whole thing up from a hospital bed.

I for one had already regarded the "references to Oz" as being an integral part of Erfworld. Its like Erfworld has become an Oz Fanfic on par with Zardoz.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

Postby No one in particular » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:53 pm

Zeku wrote:I'm pretty sure Dorothy's companions were referenced

The Scarecrow, Lion & the Tin Man were mentioned a few times, but most explicitly in IPTSF 56.

IPTSF Text 56 wrote:"You know that a scarecrow is an ordinary unit of Dollamancy, like a cloth golem...”

“Yeah,” said Jillian. She had some experience fighting them, in fact.

“Well, this one was more than that. It spoke. It ate. It had opinions. It danced and sang. And it had the upkeep cost of a warlord. Something that Maxwell did during its creation gave it Life. It bothered Olive to no end,” said Wanda. Though she hadn’t turned around, Jillian could hear the smile in her voice. “She said it ought not to be possible. So just to show her, Maxwell created others like it. He made a living lion out of a cloth golem. Then he made a metal golem with Komatsu that was the same way: alive, aware. Olive put a stop to it, on the grounds that Haffaton couldn’t afford their upkeep, but the point was made. Judy loved all three of the things dearly. They helped her become Ruler.”
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

Postby jkosta » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:06 pm

bladestorm wrote:
youngstormlord wrote:"Ace Hardware could fix that." And all the fanbase went SQUEEEEE!

That's going to be a tag-line for many situations.

"The Chief Warlord looked lonely that night by the camp fire. Ace Hardware could fix that."

"Chief Parson seemed to think of only females for a certain kind of companionship. Ace Hardware could fix that."

"His Chief was filled with obvious passion and lust that was unreturned by the new warlady. Ace Hardware could fix that."


You forgot the "And all the fanbase went SQUEEEEE!" part.
No one in particular wrote:On the one hand, Parson will get Ace to do a LOT of really cool dollamancer stuff.
On the OTHER hand, Cubbins will always be Ace's one true love.

Ah, the classic conflict of Career vs Love~! How is a soul to choose?

The same way Ansom chose. http://www.erfworld.com/wiki/index.php/LIAB_3
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

Postby Lipkin » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:27 pm

This new witch could be Olive with changed Signamancy. Wanda did say she viewed Olive as something reptilian, didn't she?

I wonder if Ace could add onto the bracer. If you'll remember, the bracer is actually two items. It's the plastic sleeve, and Parson's calculator watch. The sleeve is non-magical, save for that when combined with the watch they become the powerful artifact we are now familiar with. Ace could possibly create other things the watch could interact with to lead to other effects, or modify the sleeve to broaden it's abilities. I like the idea of Ace creating a Power Morpher from Power Rangers, or a Pipboy from Fallout. It's basically a Pipboy already, but it would be cool if it had a real time targeting system akin to V.A.T.S.

Side note. Just occurred to me that in addition to being a mathmancy item, the bracer could have Turnamancy capability. It is the only clock that exists on Erf after all.

Also, I wonder if a Dollamancer could make Voodoo dolls.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

Postby GWvsJohn » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:39 pm

Lipkin wrote:This new witch could be Olive with changed Signamancy. Wanda did say she viewed Olive as something reptilian, didn't she?


I like this idea a lot.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

Postby drachefly » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:38 pm

Oh yeah, nice job on the art.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

Postby Zeku » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:50 pm

KKdragonlord wrote:While Dorothy being summoned to Erfworld is supposedly an indication that others had come to Erfworld before Parson, which would mean that Erf is at least as real as Parson's reality is, in our world she is nothing but a character in a story, just like in Parson's world. So either in Parson's reality Dorothy had been a movie based on a true story (somehow) or it is just another clue that Parson is really dreaming this whole thing up from a hospital bed.


agree, but adding some stuff:

There are at least 4 worlds here, and at least 3 descriptions of worlds here:

1-This comic, a subset of our reality. This comic does not exist, since it is simply a complex series of descriptors within our reality.
2-The Wizard of Oz movie, which includes a fictional version of Kansas that is not actually our reality. Like the comic, this is a subset of our reality, and does not exist except as a group of complex descriptions.
3-The Wizard of Oz movie that Parson knows about, which obviously appeared in Stupidworld at some point. This is a series of descriptors within Stupidworld.

4-The "actual" Land of Oz. This world's "value" with respect to our own is unknown.
5-The "actual" Erfworld. ditto
6-The "actual" Stupidworld, which Parson originates from. ditto
7-Our reality, which is not the same as Stupidworld.


I've always assumed that (the Erfworld comic) is implying that realities 4-6 exist, and have equal value, and reality 7 might be just as real as 4-6. This would mean that there would be endless number of other 'real' worlds, like Erfworld and Oz. My justification for this belief is that Parson was pulled across realities from Stupidworld to Erfworld, while Judy moved from Oz to Erfworld.

And it means that, as you said, the Stupidworld version of the Wizard of Oz was based on actions within an equivalent reality. It's strange that we reached the conclusion that the movie (nested within Stupidworld) was an EFFECT of real actions. Here in our reality, storytellers tend to overlook the possibility that more than one story can originate from a single series of actual events.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

Postby No one in particular » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:26 pm

Something to consider:

From TBFGK Klog 8:
Parson wrote:"Everything's like a weird joke I only half get. There are all of these things that seem familiar from the reality I know, but everything is cute."

From First Intermission 46:
Parson wrote:Erfworld never stopped throwing jokes at him.

Or did he create the joke by picking them out? Chickens and eggs, trees falling in the forest...

It may not be that The Wizard of Oz was inspired/reflected what was going on with Judy & Erfworld, but the reverse. In the same way that Parson sees all these references around him and creates his own (naming the streets after Simpsons, taking Ginger & MaryAnn on a "three hour tour", etc), it's possible that Judy had seen the Wizard of Oz and patterned her adventure on it.

Parson is a war-gamer and sees the world as a player more than a participant (after the volcano, he's forcing himself to change that). Erfworld had been reinforcing that, with the eyemancer table and a scenario exactly like the one he was going to play against his friends.

What do we know about Judy? She was a farm girl from Kansas who wanted to escape it; after being whisked away, she would immediately see the parallels of herself and Dorothy, and Erfworld reinforced it. It gave her a scarecrow, a tin man and a lion. It gave her magic shoes and two witches to fight.

Also, something worth repeating: She is NOT Dorothy. She's Judy Gale. Not Dorothy Gale. Not Judy Garland. She's not the character or the actress.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

Postby spriteless » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:29 pm

I've been listening to these, and hearing them read makes the characters that I don't have a strong voice for so much better. Good work 'The Racist Tree' guy!
T'was a splendidly speedy defection.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

Postby Lilwik » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:47 pm

No one in particular wrote:It may not be that The Wizard of Oz was inspired/reflected what was going on with Judy & Erfworld, but the reverse. In the same way that Parson sees all these references around him and creates his own (naming the streets after Simpsons, taking Ginger & MaryAnn on a "three hour tour", etc), it's possible that Judy had seen the Wizard of Oz and patterned her adventure on it.
Judy didn't choose her own adventure; she was summoned, but it could amount to the same thing. It seems likely that Judy was summoned because they wanted someone familiar with the situation they were facing, so they may have picked a person from a world where the Wizard of Oz story exists because it would help mentally prepare her for existence in Erfworld. They probably didn't do that deliberately; it was probably done by magic without the conscious awareness of the casters, since I find it hard to imagine any Erfworlder being sufficiently aware of Stupidworld, except perhaps Charlie.

I don't think that even Judy was aware of Stupidworld. Perhaps it was just from living in Erfworld for so long, but she seemed nothing like Parson. Judy didn't seem to be aware that she was filling in the role of a character from a story, so maybe she'd never heard of the Wizard of Oz and came from a world where it didn't exist. In that case, the whole similarity between the Wizard of Oz and the situation in el-Efbaum, Easteros, and Westeregg is all part of the reason why Parson was summoned, because he was already familiar with that history.

So I'm suggesting that the Summon Perfect Warlord spell had a vast number of possible worlds to choose from, and all of the similarities between Erfworld and Stupidworld are nothing more than the reason Stupidworld was chosen over all the other possibilities. The world that Judy came from was probably also similar to Erfworld in many ways, but perhaps in a more direct and natural way. Maybe Judy came from a world of hexes and sides and warlords and all the things that would make it easy for her to adapt to Erfworld. It wouldn't surprise me if the whole reason that Parson is only familiar with Erfworld in silly ways is that Parson was summoned by Wanda instead of a real Findamancer.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

Postby motorfirebox » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:54 pm

My new motto is, "Ace Hardware can fix that."
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

Postby wih » Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:17 am

KKdragonlord wrote:
Zeku wrote:This is where it needs to stop. Unless Rob has a plot-critical tie-in to the actual Wizard of Oz movie, this reference has been exhausted.


You mean, other than the fact that Parson was summoned to Erfworld at the exact same time he made a reference to "doing the wizard of Oz thing"?

Erfworld is itself a big reference to Oz

The fact that there was a lot of worldbuilding in book 0 that was revealed rather recently, and is now being tied to the main arc as the current story gets close to being knit together with the past, is sufficient to account for the seemingly overabundance of references.

While Dorothy being summoned to Erfworld is supposedly an indication that others had come to Erfworld before Parson, which would mean that Erf is at least as real as Parson's reality is, in our world she is nothing but a character in a story, just like in Parson's world. So either in Parson's reality Dorothy had been a movie based on a true story (somehow) or it is just another clue that Parson is really dreaming this whole thing up from a hospital bed.

I for one had already regarded the "references to Oz" as being an integral part of Erfworld. Its like Erfworld has become an Oz Fanfic on par with Zardoz.


Parson also references and quotes Oz all the way through Book One. Check what he says going through the portal, and most of the early Klogs.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

Postby No one in particular » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:34 am

Lilwik wrote:I don't think that even Judy was aware of Stupidworld. Perhaps it was just from living in Erfworld for so long, but she seemed nothing like Parson. Judy didn't seem to be aware that she was filling in the role of a character from a story, so maybe she'd never heard of the Wizard of Oz and came from a world where it didn't exist. In that case, the whole similarity between the Wizard of Oz and the situation in el-Efbaum, Easteros, and Westeregg is all part of the reason why Parson was summoned, because he was already familiar with that history.

Of course Judy was nothing like Parson; she was a farm girl from Kansas with no opportunities, not a powergamer with no life.

Besides, from Judy's point of view, she'd already finished the story she was summoned for. She had been summoned to save Haffaton & el-Efbaum from the witches, and then she made the choice to stay. (IPTSF 62 "It was my choice to stay in Erfworld that day," said Judy.) She was done with playing a role, and thought she was leading a life of her own choosing at that point. Add in the fact that by the time we saw her, she'd not only been in Erfworld since before Olive was running Haffaton, Judy was also strung out on heroine buds.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

Postby kukn » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:49 am

Nicer art this time - glad for that and hoping the improvements continue :-)
Please wait, thinking...
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

Postby Tonot » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:58 am

While I was at work today, I felt a disturbance in the force, as if thousands of nerds had spasmed in joy.

:tongue:

Our lad Ace is a bit of a Bully-boy, I wonder what sort of shoes he wears?.

Liked the art work quite a bit. Especially nice faces, though they are slightly more "human" looking then we are used to.
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Re: Book 2 – Epilogue 03 – Ace on the Move

Postby Berserk Knight » Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:02 am

Parson with Ace's gear? O_o
Now THAT is going to be utterly OP.
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