Lipkin wrote:I didn't say you need to have a capitol to have a side, I said you need to have had one. You become a Ruler by taking ownership of a capitol site.
I see what you meant now. At least we know for certain that a ruler is still a ruler after losing the capital. Whether a ruler can pop in the wild or not is still something we have no evidence for or against. I'm not going to guess about that, but it would help explain why barbarians popping in the wild can be complicated.
Lipkin wrote:For one, they can claim cities.
Didn't the gobwins claim Gobwin Knob when they took it? They certainly didn't raze it because we can see it still standing when Stanley retakes it, and the gobwins are still in it. Book 1, Page 79
. Maybe they are just in it without claiming it, but I don't see where you are getting that natural allies can't claim cities, since Vurp certainly didn't tell it to you.
Lipkin wrote:For two, Barbarians have purses, and deal in smuckers. Natural Allies have to immediately spend their shmuckers on new units or rations, while Jillian was able to spend all her savings of a Thinkogram to Ansom.
That's because Jillian is a commander and has a purse. I'm not sure if most natural allies have commanders. Vurp doesn't seem like command material to me, at least. Maybe Vurp just left out the bit about barbarians sometimes having commanders because those commanders are very rare and perhaps totally nonexistent in hobgobwins.
Lipkin wrote:I'm guessing barbs were included with the natural allies list because they aren't properly a side, and it was simpler than making an "other" category.
I agree that stupidmeals are not really reliable, but the only other mistake we know about was just the omission of an exception to a rule. Flying units in forest hexes can only be attacked by other flying units, except that the stupidmeal failed to mention the exception (see Book 1, Page 46a, Klog #6
). That's simplifying the rules so that they will fit onto a meal package, which is a bit different from supplying deliberate misinformation like calling barbarians natural allies if they aren't
natural allies and share nothing in common with natural allies. I don't think stupidmeals would go that far.
It would make so much more sense if barbarians can sometimes be slightly unusual natural allies and Vurp failed to mention the exception to the rules. Especially if the majority of barbarians have no commanders and therefore have no purses and act exactly like any other natural ally with shmuckers, then it is a very minor exception to the rules.Edit:
I just remembered Book 1, Page 79a, Klog #9
where it tells us that gobwins and various others have no cities. It's curious that they took Gobwin Knob and stayed there until Stanley came to take it back, and yet have no cities. Maybe they just prefer to live underground and uncharacteristically chose to claim that city as part of whatever strange plan motivated them to kill Saline IV, and so Parson just means habitually have no cities, except in this case
. I also notice that he doesn't say "all natural allies." He just lists a few examples, leaving it open for other kinds of natural allies to have cities.