What's the deal with Turnamancers?

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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby Lilwik » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:25 am

drachefly wrote:Shai-hulud has already addressed how this can be consistent by noting that just because something was made with Croakamancy doesn't mean that it is as good as being a croakamancer.
True, but that's aiming awfully high. I would never expect a mere magic item to be as good as a caster. An easier target to hit would be for a Croakamancy item to not be an impediment to Croakamancy.

If we didn't suspect that Wanda was involved in creating the box, we'd never have guessed that Croakamancy was involved in it. It's clearly a Turnamancy item, perhaps with some Foolamancy and Thinkamancy or other various disciplines, but Croakamancy would be among Predictamancy and Retconjuration in the category of least likely disciplines to be involved in making the box. On top of that, just when Wanda was talking about making the box she says that she's more than just a Croakamancer; she's whatever she needs to be. So I suggest that maybe Wanda wasn't using Croakamancy when she helped make the box. It's one of the last disciplines I'd guess she'd used.
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby drachefly » Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:56 am

The language used to describe her croakamantic senses seems lined up to what the box does quite nicely, and its granting those senses doesn't fit with it being a turnamancy/turnamancy link.
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby Shai_hulud » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:17 am

mantimeforgot wrote:Yes, I think that Dittomancy should be able to manipulate Matter axis Specials directly in much the same way other Numbers axis disciplines do within their respective spheres of interest, and that Changeomancy should be able to impart said Matter Specials.
Ok. It's an interesting idea.
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby Lilwik » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:41 pm

drachefly wrote:The language used to describe her croakamantic senses seems lined up to what the box does quite nicely, and its granting those senses doesn't fit with it being a turnamancy/turnamancy link.
That's assuming that Turnamancy can't manage a similar thing with a magic item made during a link, but you're probably right that Wanda was a big help contributing to that aspect of the box. Linked casters seem able to pool their resources completely, each benefiting from all the skills of the others. Considering that the box seems to be full of endless tricks and features, maybe that was Wanda's real contribution: a little bit of a wide range of disciplines to provide a wide range of tortures. For example, taking away Jillian's senses was surely a bit of Lookamancy. Making Jillian feel hungry might be Flower Power. Rolling was nothing more than Turnamancy without a doubt.
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby Shai_hulud » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:01 pm

I wasn't really trying to say it didn't do other things, just that what Wanda was saying in her quote was that the reason it made it harder for her to torture people wasn't because that aspect wasn't Croakamancy, but that it was inferior to her natural powers. I mean, yeah, spinning the box in the air is probably Turnamancy.
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby GWvsJohn » Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:12 am

Lilwik wrote:
drachefly wrote:The language used to describe her croakamantic senses seems lined up to what the box does quite nicely, and its granting those senses doesn't fit with it being a turnamancy/turnamancy link.
That's assuming that Turnamancy can't manage a similar thing with a magic item made during a link, but you're probably right that Wanda was a big help contributing to that aspect of the box. Linked casters seem able to pool their resources completely, each benefiting from all the skills of the others. Considering that the box seems to be full of endless tricks and features, maybe that was Wanda's real contribution: a little bit of a wide range of disciplines to provide a wide range of tortures. For example, taking away Jillian's senses was surely a bit of Lookamancy. Making Jillian feel hungry might be Flower Power. Rolling was nothing more than Turnamancy without a doubt.


The way Maggie describes links and the fact that linked casters are referred to only by their discipline seems pretty clear evidence that casters in a link contribute only their primary discipline. The box was created during a think/turn/croak link. The box imparts croakamantic sense and improves unit turning. I don't see how any other explanation makes sense.
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby Lilwik » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:48 am

GWvsJohn wrote:The way Maggie describes links and the fact that linked casters are referred to only by their discipline seems pretty clear evidence that casters in a link contribute only their primary discipline.
I find it just as likely that they use titles just to avoid personalizing the casters. Where does Maggie say the things that make this so clear to you? Are you talking about Book 1, Page 135 where Maggie links Wanda and Sizemore to uncroak the volcano? If so I see what you mean, but she's not really describing how a link works so much as she is preparing the casters by depersonalizing them. We know that Thinkamancy is a complex and sophisticated magic with many subtleties, so I expect that there's more than one way to link casters together just as there is more than one kind of thinkagram.

GWvsJohn wrote:The box imparts croakamantic sense and improves unit turning.
The fact that the box does several other things in addition to the two you listed suggests that casters can contribute disciplines other than their primary discipline.
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby Shai_hulud » Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:59 am

Well... maybe. I mean we don't know how it works, or how much was the box and how much was Wanda. She did seem to touch the box each time, but....
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby GWvsJohn » Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:49 pm

She is preparing them for the link by telling them how to "become their function." Implying that in the link they are simply their function.

What else does the box do?
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Re: What's the deal with Turnamancers?

Postby Shai_hulud » Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:56 pm

Sorry for thread Croakamancy, but the name made me lol, and I needed to inflict it on others.

Somebody set us up the bomb!
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