Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby mortissimus » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:57 am

multilis wrote:
Lilwik wrote: ...Either Healomancers aren't the only kind of healers and that some units may be capable of nonmagical medical treatment,...


http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F126.jpg

"Healers, positions!" (Whole row of them based on nurse type dress, all look alike)


Those are elves btw. Don't remember which kind.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby TheMutant » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:59 am

multilis wrote:
Lilwik wrote: ...Either Healomancers aren't the only kind of healers and that some units may be capable of nonmagical medical treatment,...


http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F126.jpg

"Healers, positions!" (Whole row of them based on nurse type dress, all look alike)


Those would look to be either Lofty or Altruist Elves, as per Ansom's battle plan much earlier in the book: http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F022.jpg

So since (as far as we know) natural allies don't have casters in the same sense as we've seen so far, it looks like possibly some natural Healomancy or otherwise innate ability, perhaps.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby Noigel » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:00 pm

Some great back and forth dialogue here and wow, dat art. ;)
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby Kaed » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:52 pm

Wow, geez. A whole update available to pick apart and everyone focuses on the significance of a single word.

Personally, I found it more facinating that Wanda is probably watching this whole thing from the magic kingdom.

Also, I note that courtiers are generally given "Roles", two of which are Fool and Knave. Do these roles assigned have significance in the game, or is it strictly a political symbol?

And what is this "four and a half wings" wings rating? What's it out of? 5 wings?
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby splintermute » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:34 pm

Radagast wrote:I'm guessing since most other Archons (all?) that we've seen are named for TV characters that this one is the Lilith from True Blood?

Not really sure if it's possible but wiping out this caravan should be high on Parson's to-do list. I wonder if Ace can make a rocket-backpack for a Heavy unit?


Most of the other archons seem to sitcom or rock group references - this one is more likely Lilith from Frasier/Cheers.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby Lipkin » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:45 pm

splintermute wrote:
Radagast wrote:I'm guessing since most other Archons (all?) that we've seen are named for TV characters that this one is the Lilith from True Blood?

Not really sure if it's possible but wiping out this caravan should be high on Parson's to-do list. I wonder if Ace can make a rocket-backpack for a Heavy unit?


Most of the other archons seem to sitcom or rock group references - this one is more likely Lilith from Frasier/Cheers.

Isn't Lilith the ex-wife? That's pretty funny. Very fitting.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby joosy » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:58 pm

Or Lilith could be something more ominous..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby Lipkin » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:09 pm

joosy wrote:Or Lilith could be something more ominous..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith

Doesn't fit the theme nearly as well.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby Jinren » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:53 pm

Kaed wrote:Also, I note that courtiers are generally given "Roles", two of which are Fool and Knave. Do these roles assigned have significance in the game, or is it strictly a political symbol?


Given that this update implies that they are otherwise normal units, it would imply that it's political; my guess is it's informal (in the game sense, i.e. no mechanic involved; obviously not in the Court sense).
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby SNfinity » Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:23 pm

In book 0, Jillian understood the term year even though it didn't make "Erf" sense. I think it's likely that doctor works sort of the same way: erflings understand the English language perfectly, even the words they have no use for.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby ManaCaster » Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:39 pm

Interesting that Charlie could have so much info on a single unit. I very much doubt Pierce serves as a diplomat, Jetstone is a side without Thinkagrams to intercept, and I doubt this sort of info would enter the common gossip in the Magic Kingdom. I wonder just where Charlie gets all his intel.

Lipkin wrote:
joosy wrote:Or Lilith could be something more ominous..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith

Doesn't fit the theme nearly as well.

Indeed, which could imply that the Titans have a very special plan for this one.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby ftl » Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:18 pm

ManaCaster wrote:Interesting that Charlie could have so much info on a single unit. I very much doubt Pierce serves as a diplomat, Jetstone is a side without Thinkagrams to intercept, and I doubt this sort of info would enter the common gossip in the Magic Kingdom. I wonder just where Charlie gets all his intel.


Possibly when his archons are hired?

Like, during TBfGK book 1, some archons spent quite some time allied with Jetstone - there was the scene with Vinny hanging out with the archons, they were in the same hex as Ansom overnight, etc. They could as a matter of course do as much old-fashioned eavesdropping as they could and report everything back to Charlie.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby ManaCaster » Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:41 pm

ftl wrote:Possibly when his archons are hired?

Like, during TBfGK book 1, some archons spent quite some time allied with Jetstone - there was the scene with Vinny hanging out with the archons, they were in the same hex as Ansom overnight, etc. They could as a matter of course do as much old-fashioned eavesdropping as they could and report everything back to Charlie.

I suppose Pierce is the one caster Jetstone ever sends to the battlefield. But how often do Jetstone's courtly politics get brought up on the field?
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby ftl » Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:01 pm

Maybe often enough - people gossip, after all, and the archons are around at night when people don't have jobs to do. And Jetstone's courtly politics aren't a secret to be kept. I can definitely imagine courtly politics being the sort of thing that a tired Warlord complains about to anybody willing to listen - "I was looking forward to visiting my glorous capital but then I got there I had to sit through this ghastly boring meeting led by Slately's knave who just droned on and on for the entire turn so I didn't even get to stop by and talk to my old friend Adam Antium..."

Or maybe the archons use their, um, "feminine wiles" to loosen up commanders and get them to talk about more than they should?

"Yes, Warlord, you are SO manly and powerful! I bet Slately listens to EVERYTHING you say!"
"Oh, definitely! Last time I was in the capital, there was this meeting where I suggested a strategy, and Slately listened to that idiot Count who pointed out that I had violated procedure in bringing it up. But I showed them! I convinced the Knave to back me, and so the vote went my way! Nothing to do with Tramennis brokering an agreement, it was all me."
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby Sixty » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:33 pm

SNfinity wrote:In book 0, Jillian understood the term year even though it didn't make "Erf" sense. I think it's likely that doctor works sort of the same way: erflings understand the English language perfectly, even the words they have no use for.


Yeah, they understand words that are unique to Earth when they hear them but they wouldn't have thought of them up to that point. I doubt Pierce had a chance to hear the term from Parson or Judy. Seems like its a word that gets used in Erfworld normally.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby multilis » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:24 pm

Sixty wrote:eems like its a word that gets used in Erfworld normally.
Or normal for a unit who is modeled after a doctor on earth, just like "witch is dead" song is natural for units modeled on wizard of oz. A healer based on different earth culture healer might never think of word doctor.

Time of day, likely Charlie goes first in morning, and not his turn yet so he can't pick up his archon now without revealing his units positions. Seduction... maybe Charlie hopes that Lilith will seduce Pierce and then be turned back to Charlie after. Seduction may have long term "suggestion" powers, Lilith may play game similar to Olive the seductress.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby multilis » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:39 pm

Lipkin wrote:
joosy wrote:Or Lilith could be something more ominous..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith

Doesn't fit the theme nearly as well.

That is like discussing which version of count Dracula or king Arthur counts... it all goes back to original jewish myth, trueblood and rest are modeled on that. Lilith tends to be evil/nasty character, "ominous" in version, though occasionally a "hero" of feminism instead. If Lilith is main character than based on most myths may be a nasty one, likely much more evil than a Wanda type character has been so far.

(Whole premise of Lilith is rather silly imo, jewish teachers have trouble with one of the stories in their holy book which openly takes info from a bunch of older books (often naming the sources) having initial story told from different perspectives/sources and so invent a new character and new story to make it linear, and silly that people would care so much about who is on top when they mate on their wedding night rather than take turns... normally people are too interested in playing on their first night to care about such things)
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby Jinren » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:02 pm

multilis wrote:Time of day, likely Charlie goes first in morning, and not his turn yet so he can't pick up his archon now without revealing his units positions. Seduction... maybe Charlie hopes that Lilith will seduce Pierce and then be turned back to Charlie after.


...why would Charlie worry about revealing his pickup team to, or want to co-opt members of, the army that is working with him?

Lilith doesn't work for Charlie at the moment. She works for Wanda.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby Zippy the Squirrel » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:40 pm

When I saw the name Lilith, I immediately thought of the Succubus from Castlevania. Red coloring, seduction and trickery, it all fits to me. But what is an Erfworld reference pun without multiple layers?

Also, Pierce's "doctor" comment may just mean he has the Erfworld equivalent of a doctorate in something.... perhaps cocktails.
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Re: Epilogue 11 - Lilith and Pierce

Postby Lilwik » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:24 pm

Zippy the Squirrel wrote:Pierce's "doctor" comment may just mean he has the Erfworld equivalent of a doctorate in something.
The more I think about it the more convinced I am that "Doctor" for Healomancers is probably something similar to "Mastermind" for Thinkamancers and "Grand Abbie" for Hippiemancers. Surely there is no discipline of magic that fails to give skilled casters impressive-sounding titles. If Doctor isn't a title given to high ranking Healomancers, then I can't think of anything that high ranking Healomancers might be called.
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