Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

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Re: Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

Postby Arky » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:09 am

If nothing else Parson really needs to know how these "other methods" work so he can tell them how a spy could circumvent them. I wouldn't take Isaac's confidence in their security at face value. Both Parson and Charlie thrive on thinking their way around rules that Erfworlders consider unbreakable.

Certainly Isaac's confidence that no Great Mind would betray Thinkamancy is pure naivety. Maybe he personally has that strong a belief in Thinkamancy, but who's to say another of the Great Minds isn't even more fond of giant sums of cash, or "personal contracts" with Charlie's Archons (ick) or is a secret Hat Magician working towards making Hat Magic the pre-eminent way of passing messages.
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Re: Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

Postby Tonot » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:01 am

Spot wrote:
Rizban wrote:Ranking based on furniture. Interesting concept. To me, probably the most interesting thing in this update.


Chair-man is a thing.



I hope I am not the only one who thought this extremely witty. :shock:
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Re: Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

Postby Eji1700 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:03 am

Lilwik wrote:It seems that it is time for someone to make a bet about whether Parson is going to be put under some sort of nondisclosure agreement or whether he's going to get out of it somehow. I can't imagine Parson wanting to have his brain messed with, but on the other hand he wants to stay friendly with the Great Minds and I can't think of anyone specifically that he wants to share this knowledge with; he's the only one who really needs to know these things.

I would bet myself, but I can't decide which why I would bet. Either way I'll be on the edge of my seat until the next epilogue.

Well we've already seen one unit get around such an agreement(Jack), so there's likely other loopholes besides death. He'll likely agree and likely figure one out.
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Re: Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

Postby Lilwik » Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:40 am

Eji1700 wrote:Well we've already seen one unit get around such an agreement(Jack), so there's likely other loopholes besides death.
Resorting to death seems like a pretty extreme tactic to get out of a contract, the sort of thing that even the most careful Signamancer might overlook. I wouldn't count on the contract being full of loopholes just because it has one loophole that only dead people can exploit, especially since Jack's contract was written at a time when no one had ever heard of decryption. For all we know, it might even be that the Great Minds are now working their magic so that it extends beyond death, closing what might have been the only loophole.

I think it would be far better to use the existence of a spy as evidence that there's a way out of the Great Minds' NDA, since a spy couldn't exist without getting around that somehow. We don't even know that the spy really exists, but the Great Minds seem to confirm that a spy is possible even when they are saying the opposite. They say there can't be a spy, but they show all the signs of worrying about the possibility of a spy which they wouldn't do if a spy were really impossible.
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Re: Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

Postby Eji1700 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:11 am

Lilwik wrote:
Eji1700 wrote:Well we've already seen one unit get around such an agreement(Jack), so there's likely other loopholes besides death.
Resorting to death seems like a pretty extreme tactic to get out of a contract, the sort of thing that even the most careful Signamancer might overlook. I wouldn't count on the contract being full of loopholes just because it has one loophole that only dead people can exploit, especially since Jack's contract was written at a time when no one had ever heard of decryption. For all we know, it might even be that the Great Minds are now working their magic so that it extends beyond death, closing what might have been the only loophole.

I think it would be far better to use the existence of a spy as evidence that there's a way out of the Great Minds' NDA, since a spy couldn't exist without getting around that somehow. We don't even know that the spy really exists, but the Great Minds seem to confirm that a spy is possible even when they are saying the opposite. They say there can't be a spy, but they show all the signs of worrying about the possibility of a spy which they wouldn't do if a spy were really impossible.

While all true, it's worth pointing out that charlie's contract was likely stronger as it was caused by a caster link using an artifact and two caster types they currently don't have(or at least i'm assuming simply because having non thinkmancers casting your NDA sorta defeats the purpose). All of this is speculation of course(they may very well use a totally different method), but if they do use anything similar to charlies i'm assuming it can't be nearly as strong(and again, even one that strong can technically be beaten, and rules exploits are the heart of all this).

Either way it should be interesting to see.
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Re: Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

Postby Lipkin » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:06 am

So, there is a type of Thinkomancy that seems to confirm the sender's identity. Is it possible that this sort of Thinkogram could be used to discover if Parson has a magical discipline?
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Re: Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

Postby drachefly » Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:33 am

Arky wrote:Certainly Isaac's confidence that no Great Mind would betray Thinkamancy is pure naivety.


It might be accurate, though. Unlike the communists, the Nazis were terribly incapable of getting moles.
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Re: Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

Postby badninja » Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:10 am

Aquillion wrote:I don't know. Remember, we read an update from his perspective, and he seems genuinely opposed to Parson based on fear of what Parson could do rather than secret loyalty to Charlie or anything like that.


This actually makes me think that they have a spy, not Roger but someone else. It is scary that how decisive Parson is and how people who do not know him are reacting to him. The current page and the page you provided a link for will be important in later developments I bet as it will explain why the thinkamancer betrayed the GMTTA.
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Re: Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

Postby jkosta » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:45 pm

Sixty wrote:Interesting, Parson mentions Professors he had. Not surprising he went to college or anything really, but a little bit of confirmation (or strong evidence at least) that he has education beyond high school.


Only strong evidence. It's entirely possible, and not a big deal, to take college courses as early as middle school.
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Re: Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

Postby cheeseaholic » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:53 pm

The inclusion of the name must be a deliberate thing. If it was just background information on that frequency, Maggie could have pinged Jack's name.
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Re: Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

Postby Whispri » Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:39 pm

The Archon relay thing... could Wanda pull that off with Lilith?

jkosta wrote:
Sixty wrote:Interesting, Parson mentions Professors he had. Not surprising he went to college or anything really, but a little bit of confirmation (or strong evidence at least) that he has education beyond high school.

Only strong evidence. It's entirely possible, and not a big deal, to take college courses as early as middle school.

Actually...
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Re: Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

Postby bensans » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:34 pm

Are we ever going back to comic format? I like the current format as an "extra" but really miss the core content in comic book form.
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Re: Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

Postby ftl » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:39 pm

Yes, the comic is supposed to eventually return to comic format. I believe it's been said there will be something like 30 epilogue pages, so we're halfway through them? Or something like that? Not sure.
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Re: Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

Postby Lilwik » Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:32 pm

ftl wrote:I believe it's been said there will be something like 30 epilogue pages, so we're halfway through them?
I'm hoping for "Parson and the Great Minds" numbers 3 through 18. I can't imagine anywhere I'd rather be than learning more about what the Great Minds know. Of course, learning more about what Marie knows would also be great, and learning what Charlie knows would be best of all, but I assume that's not a possible Epilogue.
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Re: Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

Postby nargbop » Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:40 pm

The Epilogue format works very well for these contemplative, conversation-heavy times in the story. It lets Balder get detail out without needing to pack it in as densely, but it also allows him to convey things that would be graphically difficult, like the non-sensory information of the Thinkamancer's conversations.

Presumably, Book 0 has to wrap up soon soon like the Epilogues, after Jillian loses her memory .
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Re: Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

Postby Zeku » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:42 pm

rezby, I think self-righteous people seem more like subtle traitors because they gain their confidence from within, not requiring agreement with others.

Being so certain of your own correctness that you would discard a great responsibility in favor of a secret plan would either cause, or coexist with an angry confident personality.
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Re: Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

Postby multilis » Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:55 am

Zeku wrote:rezby, I think self-righteous people seem more like subtle traitors because they gain their confidence from within, not requiring agreement with others.

I think "devil in details", self righteous can go either way, can also act as barrier to betrayal. In same way dependence on others can go both ways, East Germans were very good at having their male agents seduce west german women with charm/flattery, listening to them, etc.... leaving the impression that the East german spies loved them. A lack of confidence from within can make flattery/manipulation approach work better, eg Charlie turning Stately into a pawn.

The best spy is the one you are least likely to suspect, the one who seems to hate Charlie the most and want Charlie dead.
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Re: Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

Postby Whispri » Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:04 am

nargbop wrote:The Epilogue format works very well for these contemplative, conversation-heavy times in the story. It lets Balder get detail out without needing to pack it in as densely, but it also allows him to convey things that would be graphically difficult, like the non-sensory information of the Thinkamancer's conversations.

Presumably, Book 0 has to wrap up soon soon like the Epilogues, after Jillian loses her memory .

Nah, Wanda still has to become pretti again and wipe out the Side.

Lilwik wrote:
ftl wrote:I believe it's been said there will be something like 30 epilogue pages, so we're halfway through them?
I'm hoping for "Parson and the Great Minds" numbers 3 through 18. I can't imagine anywhere I'd rather be than learning more about what the Great Minds know. Of course, learning more about what Marie knows would also be great, and learning what Charlie knows would be best of all, but I assume that's not a possible Epilogue.

I'd rather watch Wanda knock over a city or twelve myself.
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Re: Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

Postby King Mir » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:59 am

There seems to be a bit of a contradiction in Isaac's account. Hey suggests, but does not say outright, that he is not worried about thinkamancers betraying thinkamancy because they are bound by ways preventing them from betraying the group. But earlier he says that Thinkamancers could not betray thinkamancy without detection, implying that they could theoretically betray it and them. So either he's being intentionally deceptive about what binds the thinkamancers, or the means he is describing do not outright prevent betrayal, unlike Charlie's spell. The former is the less profound implication, but I did not think Isaac would risk a lie that Parson could potentially catch to try to get Parson to do something.
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Re: Epilogue 15 – Parson and the Great Minds 2

Postby wih » Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:09 am

Whispri wrote:The Archon relay thing... could Wanda pull that off with Lilith?


Maybe we'll be seeing Wanda decrypt someone via an Archon at some point.
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