Epilogue 16 - Parson and Maggie Discuss Thinking Alike

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Re: Epilogue 16 - Parson and Maggie Discuss Thinking Alike

Postby Lamech » Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:16 pm

Mikalyaran wrote:So...I had a thought...

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -08-01.jpg

The last panel here seem awfully lookamancyish to me. What do you guys think the odds are that the Arkedish has provided Charlie access to not just the discipline of Thinkamancy but the all three Eyemancy discipline? At the very least I think that this panel must represent a Lookamancer spying for Charlie from within the magic kingdom as this most recent epilogue suggests. But the idea of Charlie having access to 6 disciplines is pretty scary.

The dish doesn't give Charlie the infinite lookamancy power like he has with thinkamancy. Notice his archon scouts he occasionally moves out. I see that last panel, if it is spying he was spying on the thinkamancy. I wouldn't think lookamancy spying.
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Re: Epilogue 16 - Parson and Maggie Discuss Thinking Alike

Postby 0beron » Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:15 pm

I'm not even sure that last panel referenced above is even spying at all. To me it seems like Thinkspace. At the time, it was supposed to cause suspense from thinking Charlie was listening, but then when we move to the next page we see Issac has pulled Parson into Thinkspace, which has the same black surroundings, so that final panel could be what it feels/looks like to just enter Thinkspace.
In either even, it's definitely not Lookamancy because 1) that'd be OP and 2) the Great Minds would know by now if it did more than just Think.
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Re: Epilogue 16 - Parson and Maggie Discuss Thinking Alike

Postby Tonot » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:09 am

Mikalyaran wrote:So...I had a thought...

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -08-01.jpg

The last panel here seem awfully lookamancyish to me. What do you guys think the odds are that the Arkedish has provided Charlie access to not just the discipline of Thinkamancy but the all three Eyemancy discipline? At the very least I think that this panel must represent a Lookamancer spying for Charlie from within the magic kingdom as this most recent epilogue suggests. But the idea of Charlie having access to 6 disciplines is pretty scary.



I also see that in the fifth panel the lookamancer says

" Home ( Exclamation mark ) . . . Ohio ( question mark )"

Is the question mark because he doesn't know what/where an Ohio is?.

Or is it because, ( thinkamancing inside Parsons brain as Parson is talking ), he learns implicitly what an Ohio is and what it is TO Parson but because Parson really doesn't know which direction and how far away Ohio is, or really how it does or does not relate to Erfworld, the Thinkamancer can't make head or tails about it either.

Imagine if you had only ever held an object, never seen it or used it, etc, what good would your memories be to a Thinkamancer?. Or for that matter, if you had only ever seen a thing on TV or the internet. Or spoken about it to someone.
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Re: Epilogue 16 - Parson and Maggie Discuss Thinking Alike

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:28 am

I don't think this will necessarily be bad for Don King. I don't think Ben would be quick to back a coup, and GK would greatly benefit from gemifying its treasury to evacuate it from Spacerock.

If TV were to set up a new Side at Spacerock, it might be fairly safe for a while even with minimal forces, given TV's historical good relations with Jetstone and Faq and a new arrangement with GK. I don't think Spacerock is anywhere near a level 5 anymore, and it doesn't have unique geographical value like GK or Faq's mountains or even Haggar's port, so its main value is being a capital site. I'm pretty sure Sun Tzu had something discouraging to say about fighting over indefensible terrain that is equally valuable to multiple sides.
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Re: Epilogue 16 - Parson and Maggie Discuss Thinking Alike

Postby Lipkin » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:48 am

Chit Rule Railroad wrote:I don't think this will necessarily be bad for Don King. I don't think Ben would be quick to back a coup, and GK would greatly benefit from gemifying its treasury to evacuate it from Spacerock.

If TV were to set up a new Side at Spacerock, it might be fairly safe for a while even with minimal forces, given TV's historical good relations with Jetstone and Faq and a new arrangement with GK. I don't think Spacerock is anywhere near a level 5 anymore, and it doesn't have unique geographical value like GK or Faq's mountains or even Haggar's port, so its main value is being a capital site. I'm pretty sure Sun Tzu had something discouraging to say about fighting over indefensible terrain that is equally valuable to multiple sides.

What are you trying to say you think will happen? That TV would help GK leave Spacerock, despite TV being in an alliance directly opposed to them?
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Re: Epilogue 16 - Parson and Maggie Discuss Thinking Alike

Postby Mikalyaran » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:40 am

0beron wrote:I'm not even sure that last panel referenced above is even spying at all. To me it seems like Thinkspace. At the time, it was supposed to cause suspense from thinking Charlie was listening, but then when we move to the next page we see Issac has pulled Parson into Thinkspace, which has the same black surroundings, so that final panel could be what it feels/looks like to just enter Thinkspace.
In either even, it's definitely not Lookamancy because 1) that'd be OP and 2) the Great Minds would know by now if it did more than just Think.


It might be entering thinkspace. But that seems kind of strange. You're saying that the dish doesn't give Lookamancy and the GMs know it. We also know that the GMs know it does allow Charlie to hack Thinkagrams. So unless Issac is sure the thinkagram he is bringing Parson into is secure (he might since there are so many of thinkamancers there to help protect the call. If that's possible) from hacking wouldn't the talking outside thinkspace give greater protection from Charlie? Maybe he's more interested in being discreet in relation to the other nearby casters more than being secure from Charlie just then though. But...

1.) that'd be OP.
Yeah well...how's is that anything new to an Arkentool? The dish is already op. And really all it is doing is making it so Charlescom as a side has a Lookamancer, Thinkamancer, Foolamancer, and a Carneymancer on their side. 4 casters seems to be about right for a side. So not really that OP. Charlie has a had a long time to figure out the secrets of the Arkendish.

2.) the Great Minds would know by now if it did more than just Think.
What makes you think they don't already know it?

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -02-02.png

"there sat the Arkendish, the greatest instrument of observation there could ever be." Lookamancy seem like an important tool of observation. Furthermore, Issac's write-up says this...

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6632

"As he turned his studies to other forms of Eyemancy, Issac made some deeply disturbing observations and discoveries. In particular he discovered important implications about Charlie's attunement to the Arkendish. These revelations began to turns the Great Minds away from the petty gossip of the Magic Kingdom and towards the exploration of broader questions about their world."

Issac's revelations while studying the other forms of eyemancy are what really started the GMs down this path in the first place. Parson has more sessions coming up with the GM's. Maybe they do know and haven't revealed it yet. Charlie is an old and powerful Caster. His daughter was a level 12. Issac, a level 11, is nearly a full master of eyemancy. If the dish essentially makes Charlie a Thinkamancer as well as a Carny why couldn't he also master the other disciplines of Eyemancy like Issac has? Access to the "greatest instrument of observation there could ever be" would certainly help a level 12(+?) caster like Charlie in attempts to learn Eyemancy.

It really doesn't seem that unlikely to me.

Also I want to see Parson get the dish, attune, and go all Leto Atredies II on Erfworld.
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Re: Epilogue 16 - Parson and Maggie Discuss Thinking Alike

Postby Denar » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:03 pm

No one in particular wrote:
Heh. Link-up vulnerabilities aside, maybe Parson can just organize a massive number of units to all call Charlie at the same time, and mess with him that way. "A million units, all plucking the same G-string, at the same time..."


"Hey Charlie!"

"Er... Yes?"

"Yeah I'm having some trouble with my side at the moment."

"Oh and you'd like to do business?"

"Absolutely! But I was wondering..."

"Yes?"

"If you..."

"Uh-huh?"

"Could pop any Battletoads for me?"

"STOP CALLING ME ARRRGH"
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Re: Epilogue 16 - Parson and Maggie Discuss Thinking Alike

Postby Sir Shadow » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:16 pm

It's been shown that Charlie can manage calls, especially with his Archon-operators
Demon Lord Etna wrote:Looks like I have to resort to the politician's golden rule: "If they can't prove it, deny, deny, deny."
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Re: Epilogue 16 - Parson and Maggie Discuss Thinking Alike

Postby name lips » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:13 pm

A Denial-Of-Service attack against Charlie would be very interesting... We've seen before than any unit can attempt to contact Charlie by thinking really hard. What if Parson got every unit on his side to do this at the same time? All those decrypted units, all the real ones, all the natural allies...

Sure, Charlie can handle a large volume of calls through his archon-switchboard operators, and the weird time-dilation stuff might mean he can handle huge numbers of calls in a given turn, but there's got to be a limit, especially if Parson is having his units do it simultaneously.
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Re: Epilogue 16 - Parson and Maggie Discuss Thinking Alike

Postby Not Me » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:18 pm

Mikalyaran wrote:1.) that'd be OP.
Yeah well...how's is that anything new to an Arkentool? The dish is already op. And really all it is doing is making it so Charlescom as a side has a Lookamancer, Thinkamancer, Foolamancer, and a Carneymancer on their side. 4 casters seems to be about right for a side. So not really that OP. Charlie has a had a long time to figure out the secrets of the Arkendish.


I would say it's not the same having 4 casters in your side than having the option of a 3 or 4 caster link between those 4 casters without the usual risks those links have.

Mikalyaran wrote:2.) the Great Minds would know by now if it did more than just Think.
What makes you think they don't already know it?

http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -02-02.png

"there sat the Arkendish, the greatest instrument of observation there could ever be." Lookamancy seem like an important tool of observation. Furthermore, Issac's write-up says this...

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6632

"As he turned his studies to other forms of Eyemancy, Issac made some deeply disturbing observations and discoveries. In particular he discovered important implications about Charlie's attunement to the Arkendish. These revelations began to turns the Great Minds away from the petty gossip of the Magic Kingdom and towards the exploration of broader questions about their world."

Issac's revelations while studying the other forms of eyemancy are what really started the GMs down this path in the first place. Parson has more sessions coming up with the GM's. Maybe they do know and haven't revealed it yet. Charlie is an old and powerful Caster. His daughter was a level 12. Issac, a level 11, is nearly a full master of eyemancy. If the dish essentially makes Charlie a Thinkamancer as well as a Carny why couldn't he also master the other disciplines of Eyemancy like Issac has? Access to the "greatest instrument of observation there could ever be" would certainly help a level 12(+?) caster like Charlie in attempts to learn Eyemancy.

It really doesn't seem that unlikely to me.


About Charlie+Dish having Lookamancy abilities I couldn't find anything conclusive, but this piece would suggest that he either doesn't have those abilities or they are very limited (maybe to a few hexes or a single hex) and that is why he has to rely on his Archons for gathering "field information".
Also, in the previous update the Great Minds told Parson that Charlie can do some sort of prediction
A form of prediction that was not Predictamancy, which worked by sensing collective intuition or morale


So he is a Carnymancer (probably Master Class), the Dish grants him Thinkamancy (probably equivalent or even better than a Master Class), he can do some sort of prediction...
With how "old" Charlie is I guess it's fair to assume he is a high level caster and has probably tried other disciplines outside Carnymancy besides what the Dish grants him. Carnymancy is Stagemancy. Someone mentioned he might have some Rhyme-o-mancy abilities, which is also Stagemancy.
Seems like Charlie might be a Jack of all trades :o
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Re: Epilogue 16 - Parson and Maggie Discuss Thinking Alike

Postby gobe » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:53 pm

name lips wrote:A Denial-Of-Service attack against Charlie would be very interesting... We've seen before than any unit can attempt to contact Charlie by thinking really hard. What if Parson got every unit on his side to do this at the same time? All those decrypted units, all the real ones, all the natural allies...

Sure, Charlie can handle a large volume of calls through his archon-switchboard operators, and the weird time-dilation stuff might mean he can handle huge numbers of calls in a given turn, but there's got to be a limit, especially if Parson is having his units do it simultaneously.


Brilliant! I think this would work. The effect, I guess, would be that Charlie stops being able to take calls for a little while. I'm not sure when would be the best time to make use of this tactic though.
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Re: Epilogue 16 - Parson and Maggie Discuss Thinking Alike

Postby 0beron » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:41 pm

Responding to Mika;

2 possibilities to explain Issac's Thinkspacing. 1) It's possible Thinkspace is actually secure as apposed to Thinkagrams or 2) the danger of JoJo overhearing was greater than the odds of Charlie noticing there was something for him to hack.

Now, on the Eyemancy discussion, the 'Dish is already OP as is, so adding more schools to it is unnecessary and would be over the top.

Charlie can do everything he already does using Thinkamancy, so there is no need to add Look to explain his abilities. And further, we definitely have NOT seen him use any Fool, so that's an actual mark against the theory IMO. And lastly, if they did know the 'Dish uses Look, they'd be taking entirely different precautions, since we just learned the Temple isn't Look-proof.
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GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
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Re: Epilogue 16 - Parson and Maggie Discuss Thinking Alike

Postby Lamech » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:04 pm

0beron wrote:Charlie can do everything he already does using Thinkamancy, so there is no need to add Look to explain his abilities. And further, we definitely have NOT seen him use any Fool, so that's an actual mark against the theory IMO. And lastly, if they did know the 'Dish uses Look, they'd be taking entirely different precautions, since we just learned the Temple isn't Look-proof.

Temple is lookproof. The block only affects things outside going in, NOT internal acts. That's why they can talk in the temple, and Isaac didn't want the strips taken outside.
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Re: Epilogue 16 - Parson and Maggie Discuss Thinking Alike

Postby 0beron » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:03 pm

Is it though? I was reading it to imply that any Lookamancer in the MK could see his notes if they wanted to....
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GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
There's gotta be a good joke in here somewhere.
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Re: Epilogue 16 - Parson and Maggie Discuss Thinking Alike

Postby Shai_hulud » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:36 pm

What point would there be in leaving them in the temple then?
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Re: Epilogue 16 - Parson and Maggie Discuss Thinking Alike

Postby 0beron » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:54 pm

To have them encoded like Issac said....lol
"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."
GJC wrote:Two guys with basically the same name in a discussion about a character getting cloned.
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Re: Epilogue 16 - Parson and Maggie Discuss Thinking Alike

Postby MadZuri » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:46 pm

0beron wrote:To have them encoded like Issac said....lol

It was pretty obvious that he was taking notes. If at any time a lookamancer could have spied said notes, I am pretty sure they would have stopped him from writing them in the first place.
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