Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

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Re: Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

Postby Oberon » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:51 pm

So, what do y'all think Artemis wanted to ask or say? Or did she just feel that high ranking warlords should be in attendance for strategy meetings?

I'm wondering how Parson knows Artemis' stats, since he isn't wearing his 3D glasses. Sure, he could have used them off-panel, but then they'd only be used in battle scenes when he needed to see the stats of enemy units. Or in other scenes, such as his visit with the Milquetoast Minds, where seeing their stats would be pretty handy. He really should have been wearing them there. I hope the 3D specs aren't shelved forever. Not only did I like them from a visual aspect, but they were specifically given to Parson to overcome a weakness or limitation of his, and never showing them again would mean that this weakness or limitation is just going to be ignored from here on out. It would be poor writing to establish a weakness, provide a fix, and then ignore the fix simply because you don't like how your hero looks while wearing his specially designed fix item.

Malanthyus wrote:...did I miss somewhere where they actually checked if the decrypted casters can still cast?
You didn't miss it, it hasn't happened on-panel. I'm pretty sure this is the answer to that question at last. It'd be a complete waste of an update to have almost the entire update focus on using capabilities of the casters, and then next update have Parson go "Whoops. I guess I shoulda checked to see if you decrypted casters could still cast. Well, go join that rank of infantry over there, you're pretty much useless to me now." Although that last was tongue in cheek. I think that even if Jack couldn't cast Parson would keep him in the circle of advisers. Ace, too, for his knowledge of dollamancy and casting in general. Didn't Jetstone have advisers who were courtiers or some such? Not casters or commanders, but still close to the throne as far as access to the king goes?

Whispri wrote:Silly Parson, one does not simply walk into Mordor, try catapults, much quicker!
I think you mean giant eagles.

warriortribble wrote:On a gramatical note, "That spell that ended our turn and wrecked the battle plan was from Charlescomm, we think." Should be "The spell," no?
"That spell" is fine, but it would be tidier if it read:
"That spell which ended our turn and wrecked the battle plan was from Charlescomm, we think."

But authors are allowed to have spoken words be as non-grammatical as the people speaking might make them, due to education or culture or whatever.

BakaGrappler wrote:I just gotta ask it...

Will the new Stealth Golem speak by saying, "Gollum! Gollum!"
No. But if they make it a flying unit it could be called Nighthawk or Raptor or Lightning. That, plus flying units typically have more move and they ignore terrain penalties to movement while they are in the air. A much better scout than a land unit. So again, giant (stealth) (Raptors/Nighthawks) eagles are better for getting into Mordor than anything walking.

Khundes wrote:
Malanthyus wrote:...did I miss somewhere where they actually checked if the decrypted casters can still cast?


The decrypted Archons could still cast. Why not casters?
It's a fair question, since Parson himself brought up the doubt long after the archons were decrypted. Archons are not casters. They are a flying, knight class unit with specials that include leadership and dance fighting, and one of several different types of casting as 'natural magic'. Having a special that gives you access to a few spells in a discipline does not a caster make.

niklinna wrote:I would be amazed to hear that Charlie even has a portal. He really doesn't seem the type, and if he does have one, after Parson's recent stunt, he's darn likely to shut it down fast.
I suppose he might be able to shut it down with his carnymancy, since an ability which 'breaks the rules' can conceivably do just about anything. But if he can't, I'm sure he'll park a strong force in his portal room permanently. It wouldn't really hurt his defenses, since if it looked like a conventional attack was going to succeed in breaching the walls they could be reassigned pretty quickly.
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Re: Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

Postby Tonot » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:58 pm

No one in particular wrote:
Oliolli wrote:Lastly, any guesses as to what the stealth golem will look like to those who can see it?


Maybe it'll be like the Thing? It'll kill & replace enemy units, and attack with horrible, bug-like appendages from random parts of its body?



You rock/are evil minded. I am frightened of The Thing, even "safely" contained in a fiction.

Potential like this is why Parson is Fermi and Einstein and Byron and Teller and Turing all wrapped up in a deceptive and destructive package, as far as Erfworld is concerned. He could in fact think to create a Grey Goo replicator.

He could create "Cybermen" ( though that would be kinda redundant when he had Wanda ) by having Wanda and Ace link, and Ace might very well then gain an understanding of her discipline like Sizemore did, and come out of it able to make machines like "The Magic Caldron" where you send out "foraging parties" of uncroaked, they kill scouts or wildlife etc, and off turn, tip them into Ace Hardware's magic cauldron of uncroaking. Next morning they have some extra members. You make them into a platoon, and say "Go that way till you met the edge of the world, then turn widdershins". Or hire a top Florist, link her to Wanda, and then you could have the same sort of party but carrying seeds for, and "Body Bags" off, a "Pod-People plant". ( Oooo, I am proud of that one )

. Spam attacks. Ponzi schemes, where sides were offered a chance to get in at the ground floor of an unusual investment opportunity . . .

In the second shot, Wanda is all like "Give it a rest Blondie, our man here doesn't nibble from the company Hors d'œuvre selection. And if he did, you gotta go way back in the queue".
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Re: Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

Postby Tonot » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:13 pm

bpzinn wrote:
warriortribble wrote:
niklinna wrote:It's perfectly grammatical English. Using "that" adds a bit more emphasis than using "the".

Fair enough. Seeing "that noun that" still feels a touch weird to me though.


And thus do I dub thee...

Quibble Tribble!

:P

Well, I think that that use that he is objecting to does seem to be that, of which a complaint like that complaint that he made seemed valid.

( And, you may not credit it, but that sentence is perfect grammatically. Just crapola colloquially )
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Re: Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

Postby Jabberwocky » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:38 pm

I still want a Rhyme-a-mancy/Shockamancer linkup.

I keep hearing Lords of Acid's pussy song when I think of that.
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Re: Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

Postby Dante » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:16 pm

Oberon wrote:
warriortribble wrote:On a gramatical note, "That spell that ended our turn and wrecked the battle plan was from Charlescomm, we think." Should be "The spell," no?
"That spell" is fine, but it would be tidier if it read:
"That spell which ended our turn and wrecked the battle plan was from Charlescomm, we think."


"Which" requires the phase to be offset in commas.

"That spell, which ended our turn and wrecked the battle plan, was from Charlescomm -- we think."

That sounds a little stilted and awkward due to the pauses, which is more suited to a character like Isaac than Parson. Moreover, the use of "which" over "that" implies that the information in the phrase is nonessential to the understanding of the sentence. "That spell was from Charlescomm -- we think," is a complete sentence, true, but it's also a meaningless one, even in context.
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Re: Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

Postby Tonot » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:18 pm

Oh man, you guys have had some awesome, stunning, amazing ideas. Far out, pool of talent is understatement.

I especially loved the idea of the false afterlife Lipkin had. That would be super effective way of increasing moral in effect. It would also work really well to turn enemies I would think. I suppose in the mechanics of the game there is no way to make a double agent?. Turn someone but leave them in place in the enemy camp?. Nah, that is precluded by people instantly knowing when people even in another hex, turn.

OK, this is the best fun ! . . .

Doll/Think : Making a flying carpet for a "disposable" spy unit to use, you send them into battle where you know a high value enemy will kill the scout and take the carpet for their own use . . . but the carpet is actually a scout unit too. It has orders to passively open a G-string link and report on everything it "sees". Enemy flies about revealing everything behind their own lines.

Or you have TWO carpets, one sitting on top of another. The bottom one is stealthed, and when the invading troop gets croaked, his carpet looks like it deactivates, and drops to the floor. It decouples from the stealthed carpet when it touches down and the Foolamancy activates, concealing the bottom carpet. Opposing Leader says "Go pick up that carpet" and someone does. Enemy doesn't see any need to spot-check the spot he has just seen someone pick an item up from. That patch of the enemy position is a passive sensor.

Doll/Fool/Thinkamancer : Talking Hats. Ranging Scopes. 3D Glasses like Parson had. Stealth Cloaks. De-Foolamancy Monocles. Outfit scout parties with all this sort of equipment as a natural thing, your enemies will just be thinking "OMFG, their scouts all have the best gear, I'mma get me some of those things" and that is fine, eventually your opponents forces will have a certain percentage of their number using your gear, and probably because of their effective value it will be high level leaders and "officers" using the things, (which seem to work flawlessly, you don't change anything or make it spy-ware or subversive, the idea is just make them seem like quality Items like normal Items we have seen people capture before) . . . then on your turn and at the best possible moment of your attack, you send the "remote off switch" command. Half the enemy team is now without all its specials, because of course they have discarded whatever they previously had in favour of your better stuff.

Doll/Fool. Swords that are plus one for the first three blows, then *spang* the hilt turns into a fist full of razorblades on the fourth blow.

Dirt/Fool. Dirt golems or whatever material, and you make small rock sensors that detach progressively as the golems take damage. So that as they penetrate the enemy lines they leave behind spy thingies, just look like rocks broken off. After a while you let the enemy know about this. Now they suspect ALL DE ROCKS ! ! !! are listening to them. :lol: Everywhere they go!.
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Re: Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

Postby warriortribble » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:48 pm

bpzinn wrote:And thus do I dub thee..

Quibble Tribble!

Don't think I quibble more than the average nerd, but if you wanna, I've no strong feeling on the matter.

niklinna wrote:Ah, that's not grammar, that's euphony. All of my examples used relative clauses with subjects different from the noun being modified, so I was able to omit the relative pronoun. They all sound off to me with the relative pronoun (although they're still perfectly grammatical)

I did not know such a thing existed. Thanks for the link, it was genuinely interesting. :)
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Re: Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

Postby BakaGrappler » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:02 pm

Finwe wrote:Shockamancy + thinkamancy: Rule 34. Attack with shockamancy via thinkagram :lol:


Oh dear GOD NO!!! Charlie would immediately copy that and murder everyone he doesn't like via Thinkagrams in one turn! It would be the end of freedom on Erf as we know it!

How about:

Croakamancy + Foolamancy: Motion / Matter + Visual creates a new unit, the Phantom. Incorporeal, making it immune to non-magical or elemental attacks, takes whatever form it chooses, including mundane and horrific. Can be used as a lure for traps, spread itself into a consuming darkness over individual stacks (the enemy can only see darkness, all those on the outside can still see and attack them with arrows and the like), take on enemy forms for infiltration, or be used as a tactical distraction on the battlefield. It would be a walking Foolamancy spell. And since it would be an Uncroaked unit, it would not have upkeep.

And if we get the Arkentool into the mix:

Croakamancy + Dollamancy + Arkenpliers: Living Android. Motion + Matter + Life. Golems with an intelligence and a will, like the Tin Man and Scarecrow, but really real life. Make an army of mechanical followers rigged to self destruct instead of being taken and turned. Imagine a Megalogwiff picking up a stack of these babies? Peeps confetti! And don't think this idea wouldn't occur to Wanda, since she lived in the heart of Oz.
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Re: Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

Postby niklinna » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:27 pm

Dante wrote:
Oberon wrote:
warriortribble wrote:On a gramatical note, "That spell that ended our turn and wrecked the battle plan was from Charlescomm, we think." Should be "The spell," no?
"That spell" is fine, but it would be tidier if it read:
"That spell which ended our turn and wrecked the battle plan was from Charlescomm, we think."


"Which" requires the phase to be offset in commas.

"That spell, which ended our turn and wrecked the battle plan, was from Charlescomm -- we think."

That sounds a little stilted and awkward due to the pauses, which is more suited to a character like Isaac than Parson. Moreover, the use of "which" over "that" implies that the information in the phrase is nonessential to the understanding of the sentence. "That spell was from Charlescomm -- we think," is a complete sentence, true, but it's also a meaningless one, even in context.


It's restrictive relative clauses that require the commas, actually: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_clause#Restrictive_and_non-restrictive

In standard English, relative clauses of either type can be introduced by either "that" or "which"—which used to bother me immensely for years, as I thought restrictive relative clauses required "which" and nonrestrictive used "that", and I was always getting my knickers in a twist when somebody would get it "wrong". :roll:
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Re: Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

Postby 0beron » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:01 pm

A thought occurs....I wonder if Artemis knows more about Dollamancy than your average Warlord and that's why she wanted to stick around. Seeing how old she is and the fact she worked for a side that relied so heavily on Dollamancy Golems, it might make sense that she's knowledgeable about their strategic benefits and limitations from a different perspective than Ace might have.
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Re: Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

Postby MonteCristo » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:02 am

0beron wrote:A thought occurs....I wonder if Artemis knows more about Dollamancy than your average Warlord and that's why she wanted to stick around. Seeing how old she is and the fact she worked for a side that relied so heavily on Dollamancy Golems, it might make sense that she's knowledgeable about their strategic benefits and limitations from a different perspective than Ace might have.


I don't know, nothing in her history would suggest she would know more about dollamancy. I think the reason she wanted to stick around was to get close to her new chief warlord. One thing she had plenty of experience with is feeling under-utilized and being left to play guard when she wanted to be out on the battlefield; under jetstone, after being sidelined she felt she could have gotten back out into the field if she could just cozy up to or impress her chief warlord enough. Here she's looking for a chance to do the same; trying to keep Parson's attention to help insure herself a place in his plans. Frankly i actually wonder if she even realized that her guard position in the magic kingdom is essentially a permanent one, given that she most likely can not leave the kingdom through the portals; thus her efforts are wasted. Shame too, Parson could use a good archer to shoot down those archons.
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Re: Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

Postby jeffseadot » Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:42 am

One thing that ought to be considered is the question of what happens if the stealth golem fails. Not only would Parson want a Plan B (and C and D and such) ready to try a different angle, but what would Charlie get out of discovering it?

Firstly, he'd be on even higher guard than before. Capturing a spy is concrete proof that you're being spied on, and a thorough cleaning of house would be the first order of business, followed by heightened security. Would the unit be able to communicate? Golems and dolls can't really do so on their own, but who knows what a hybrid would be capable of? If it *could* communicate, then they'd have to deal with what to do in case the unit is interrogated. And even if not, studying its physiology/signamancy would undoubtedly provide some new information.
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Re: Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

Postby lonetrey » Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:08 am

Woww. Went through the whole thread, saw a lot of cool ideas.

Things I was thinking of while reading all these things:
Croakamancy = motion&matter/fate -> Naughtymancy
Dirtamancy = matter/erf -> Stuffamancy
Foolamancy = life&motion/numbers -> Eyemancy
Dollamancy = motion/fate -> Spookism

Which is why I think Lipkin's idea of dirt+doll = Creepers = mobile dirt traps
is a really great idea that's realistically able to be implemented into the comic along with a solid pop culture reference.

Cloudbreaker's feign death idea is nice, but I would think that would only give them the appearance of being an undead unit, rather than being croaked. Not sure if this one will work as well, though I did like the idea.
Lipkin's "Taxidermy" would be a step down from decryption though. Why taxidermize units when you can just decrypt them?
Finwe: "Dirtamancy + croakamancy: pestilence " I get the feeling that this might be a very important thing, but shouldn't it be "flower power" rather than Dirtamancy?

What about... Croakamancy/Dollamancy? I'm thinking of a rolling ball of croaked units (Name needs work). The more unit it rolls over and kills, the more is added to its mass.

Thinkamancy/Lookamancy seems to be a huge theme in this upcoming thing. Mindless scout-veiled unit being Parson's focus, Foolamancy/Dollamancy seems like the obvious solution for portable Veiling and camouflage gear.
Maybe...Dirtamancy/Dollamancy? A burrowing golem/vehicle, could help bypass the eyesight of watchers completely? (Unless they're in the same hex, but from outside the hex they could be undetectable?) Perhaps access to a new map?!

My biggest thought of speculation is, does "Walking into Mordor" involve teleportation/portal? What I was thinking of was a movable portal, transported by a Stealth Golem. Imagine walking right up to Charlie and having everyone pour out from right next to him! Seems like the kind of "gaming the system" strategy that Parson would attempt. Only problem is they would need a Hat Magician (Haberdasher?).... But food for thought in the future.

Afterall, we don't really see much teleportation in Erfworld, and that's something I've always assumed would come with the territory. Portal Park is the most minimal implementation of actually teleportation in Erfworld, would love to see more. Like, portals connecting Cities directly, rather than to the Magic Kingdom! Or Mass Teleportation, like Warcraft 3 (Human Archmage hero)!

Just remembering a lot of ideas from Heroes of Magic & Might III/IV in my childhood :lol:
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Re: Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

Postby Tonot » Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:31 am

jeffseadot wrote:One thing that ought to be considered is the question of what happens if the stealth golem fails. Not only would Parson want a Plan B (and C and D and such) ready to try a different angle, but what would Charlie get out of discovering it?

Firstly, he'd be on even higher guard than before. Capturing a spy is concrete proof that you're being spied on, and a thorough cleaning of house would be the first order of business, followed by heightened security. Would the unit be able to communicate? Golems and dolls can't really do so on their own, but who knows what a hybrid would be capable of? If it *could* communicate, then they'd have to deal with what to do in case the unit is interrogated. And even if not, studying its physiology/signamancy would undoubtedly provide some new information.



Yeah, and thinking of what Charlie would have to think you know now, would be another kind of attack, right?. You could leave all sorts of misleading info and part fused and broken components in the cyborgs, and he would have to expend effort to work out what you had done.
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Re: Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

Postby Shai_hulud » Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:06 am

Dirtamancy + Croakamancy = Pet Sematary

Edit*
Added the rest of the name herp derp.
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Re: Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

Postby multilis » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:56 am

I thought archons were immune to foolomancy and Charlie scouted mainly with archons.
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Re: Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

Postby Lipkin » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:49 am

lonetrey wrote:Lipkin's "Taxidermy" would be a step down from decryption though. Why taxidermize units when you can just decrypt them?

Decrypted fatigue, experience pain, and are capable of turning.

Think about Jillian's fight with he Tin Man. Stabbed him through the chest, but he was unaffected because he didn't have a heart. A stuffed unit would only resemble a normal one, but in reality would be a sand golem covered in a skin suit. They'd be more durable, and unnerving as hell to fight against. Picture an army of dead eyed automatons marching at you, shrugging off losing limbs and being impaled as if it was nothing. While Decrypted are good, there are some advantages to uncroaked that are being overlooked.
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Re: Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

Postby Finwe » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:40 am

lonetrey wrote:Finwe: "Dirtamancy + croakamancy: pestilence " I get the feeling that this might be a very important thing, but shouldn't it be "flower power" rather than Dirtamancy?


I was thinking the effect would be something like using croakamancy to make a toxin/pathogen, and the dirtamancy to infuse the soil with it, thereby killing anything growing.
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Re: Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

Postby Gregoriownd » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:59 am

OK, got a REALLY crazy link idea....

Thinkamancer X Thinkamancer (as a 3 caster link, so yes, 3 thinkamancers involved)

Doesn't sound crazy yet? well, have this tri-thinkamancer link attempt to link sets of link casters in the way a single thinkamancer is able to link a single caster.
No idea if it is possible or not, but link-ups seem to act (temporarily at least) as a hive-mind state between the casters.
The idea would be to link Link A's hive mind with Link B's Hive mind, using Link C (the tri-thinkamancer link), as Link C might just have enough thinkamancy pull to link hive minds, not just single minds.

No clue if this would actually work... but if it does... might just be a game breaker. ^_^
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Re: Epilogue 17 - Parson's Staff Meeting

Postby technojunkie » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:09 pm

With all those high level thinkamancers... I'm thinking Parson might have at his disposal the means to exceed a 4 caster linkup.

We know that 3 is the maximum amount of individuals a single thinkamancer can manage. This conceptualizes to me as three nodes in a binary tree, the thinkamancer being the parent and the other casters being the children. We also know that while in a linkup the individuals represent one gestalt entity.

My thoughts on attempting to find a way around that 'rule' is simply hierarchy. Start with 2 separate linkups say, think-croak-doll and think-fool-dirt and then use a separarate master class thinkamancer(or group of thinkamancers) to link with both groups as if they were single entities. Thus you now have a 7-member linkup combining 4-5 disciplines.

That's a basic concept, but if successful could scale (or not) to some interesting possibilities.
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