Shai_hulud wrote:We still have no evidence that the pliers actually did anything to his brain. Many religious types in his situation would act similarly.
That is the truth of the matter, neither one of you has proof, though both of you have conviction. Conviction without proof is call belief.
Anyway, it occurs to me ( and this is me doing the belief thing too, of course, but I prefer to call it rationale lol ) that the pliers-of-compelling-the-dead must uniformly
do something to their thought processes. Not one of them pops up and lashes out, none of them scream in horror, none of them run for the horizon, and none of them say "YES ! ! ! I KNEW ALL ALONG I WAS SPECIAL, I CAN NOT DIE HAHAHAHAHAHAHA".
As far as we have seen, they all pop up
a) Calm. This must be the pliers' doing, they just all suffered traumatic death as far as they know, wtf would they be calm?.
b) Without aggro or antagonism. To their mind, a second before they were engaged to the death with some opponents, now one of them is standing within reach.
c) Re b) we all accept that the pliers are making their minds over into ones that "know" they are aligned to a new side, their commanders names, own position, etc.
These things are self evident facts, things we have seen always happening to the re-popped, and never not happening. The pliers not only can do specific stuff to the very thoughts of the re-popped, they ALWAYS do the same things.
So we can assume the pliers are ALSO capable
of magically making them adore and respect Wanda . . . what, we should accept all the other effects but strain at hypnotism or compulsion?. .And we see that uniformly they DO, after re-popping and not before, seemingly magically adore and respect Wanda.
It seems very likely or even very certain that the pliers compel
re-popped people into a compliant, respectful mind-set to the holder. And it seems likely to me, given the varied reaction strengths we have been shown, that the prior mind-set of the re-popped then contributes to how they view the holder. Religious Ansom gets all mystic, pragmatic Ossomer rationalises it, pre-friendly Jack is happily consumed with lovingkindness to her.
And because Ossomer rationalises it, he is not as deep in the effect, his logical mind only is compelled, not his illogical religious feelings, and we all know that logical people talk
themselves into and out of things, and religious people believe
themselves into and out of things.
If a "real" Titan appears and tells Ansom he is in error, he will turn. Ossomer did it by thinking hard.
So I think on the whole that you are both partly right. ( with the inevitable corollary that I am wholly right ! bwahahaha )