Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

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Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

Postby Prodigial_Knight » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:52 am

It's become apparent that some magic disciplines most apparently Croakmancy are seen unfavourably by other casters, I use the caster's pov because from a regular unit pov it must be all slightly spooky/weird/freighting, so I sat down and compiled this list of how popular I think casters are according to their disciplines.

Please feel free to say why you think some should be higher or lower or if you don't agree with my motives

The popular fields
Spoiler: show
  • Healomancy :: Obviously everybody likes to keep all their hp's and it is the reverse of Croackmancy so I think it would be the most popular especially among casters, if you're a lvl 1 stabber I don't think you're gonna see much of a healer but if you're a vital unit like casters are healers will devote more of their time to you.
  • Signamancy :: Everybody's vain and a lot of the applications we've seen of this discipline are about making yourself and others look better so they would be popular I guess even if they also are the lawyers apparently.
  • Dollamancy :: The same kind of argument as for Signamancy who doesn't love some new livery.
  • Dirtamancy :: As Sizemore would tell us he's in great demand in the Magic Kingdom, outside of the MK it's still a very solid discipline.
  • Rhyme-o-mancy :: Again who doesn't love a good tune ?
  • Thinkamancy :: While it has a whole range of uses and it's probably the discipline rulers are first to contract for if they don't have one already, I think they would be especially popular in the MK for allowing Linking and for their general intellectual aura.
  • Mathamancy :: I assume you get extra points for having more nerd cred, but it's not the most glamorous, Moneymancers are probably your BFF's.


Middle of the road

Spoiler: show
  • Predictamancy :: Knowing your fate is cool, but given the chances of getting a bad prediction I don't think most people (Wanda excluded ofc) are all that into it.
  • Moneymancy :: Probably much much more popular with rulers than with the casters in the MK.
  • Turnamancy :: I think the torture prisoners aspect would make it one of the more unpopular ones but that's probably just Wanda's take more advance Turnamancer would not need torture.
  • Hat Magic :: They do have some nifty tricks especially item teleportation.
  • Date-a-mancy :: Even with the potential fallout from a bad hook-up I still see these guys and gals being really popular.
  • Findamancy :: Solid discipline I don't see any huge potential for fame or infamy within this one.
  • Changemancy :: See above.
  • Dittomancy :: Ditto.
  • Lookamancy :: See above.
  • Weirdomancy :: Not enough info on this yet.
  • Shockmancy :: Probably very popular with most warlords, I think the casters in the MK would be sort of condescending because they're limited just to battle magics.
  • Luckamancy :: I think it being one of the more subtle disciplines it doesn't get a lot of laurels.
  • Flower Power :: As Olive's inventions aren't widespread thankfully, I think Flower Power would be seen as harmless but not the sort of caster you bring home to see your parent.


The Infamous ones

Spoiler: show
  • Foolamancy :: Overlord Firebaugh does not approve of Wanda hanging around with that Jack boy, he's a rogue I tells ya.
  • Carnymancy :: Universally untrusted for some reason :P
  • Croakamancy :: Everybody seems to dislike zombies so croakamancers aren't invited to the nice parties, actually have we seen another than Wanda ?
Last edited by Prodigial_Knight on Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:29 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

Postby 0beron » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:28 am

I would actually bump Hat Magic down to the middle of the road. It seems like Thinkamancers are viewed as the superior communicators, and it's even been explicitly stated that discovering Charlie can hack would be a huge boon to Hat Magicians, so that suggests they're not especially well off right now.

I'd also bump Hippiemancy as a whole down to the middle as well, because they seem to be viewed the same way we view hippies and stoners in Stupidworld. Harmless and friendly, but a lil weird.

Turnamancy should come up to the middle or even all the way to the top. The torture is only a third of what they do, and we're not even sure that's how all of them actually do the Turning, it could be Wanda's preferred method because it psynergizes with Croakamancy. Jillian says Vanna isn't very good at it, and Vanna herself says something about trying to turn Ansom at range, suggesting the whole capture and torture scenario isn't necessary. Then add to that Vehicles and increasing unit production, both extremely useful and popular needs, and you have a pretty popular class.
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Re: Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

Postby Prodigial_Knight » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:59 am

0beron wrote:I would actually bump Hat Magic down to the middle of the road. It seems like Thinkamancers are viewed as the superior communicators, and it's even been explicitly stated that discovering Charlie can hack would be a huge boon to Hat Magicians, so that suggests they're not especially well off right now.


As a whole I think I made the best disciplines list too long, the lower part of it should be added to the middle list.

0beron wrote:I'd also bump Hippiemancy as a whole down to the middle as well, because they seem to be viewed the same way we view hippies and stoners in Stupidworld. Harmless and friendly, but a lil weird.


I'll move down the flower power I don't see Signamancers being seen as stoners and Datemancers because there was some mention of them sowing discontent in their sides via jealousy.

0beron wrote:Turnamancy should come up to the middle or even all the way to the top. The torture is only a third of what they do, and we're not even sure that's how all of them actually do the Turning, it could be Wanda's preferred method because it psynergizes with Croakamancy. Jillian says Vanna isn't very good at it, and Vanna herself says something about trying to turn Ansom at range, suggesting the whole capture and torture scenario isn't necessary. Then add to that Vehicles and increasing unit production, both extremely useful and popular needs, and you have a pretty popular class.


Vanna's type of turning is less squeaky if more paranoia fuel, at least for me brainwashing from afar, I don't see it as being in the very top as it's the sort of usefull but not flashy (extra Production) magic like Lookamancy moved to middle list.
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Re: Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

Postby Lipkin » Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:18 am

Turnamancy would be extremely popular with sides due to their ability to increase production. That's a huge boon, without getting into vehicles, which are also extremely helpful. Turning enemies is nice when it happens, but not nearly their most useful ability. Turnamancers are probably the most likely to be hired outside of the magic kingdom, other than Thinkomancers. Inside the magic kingdom, I think only Dollmancers and Dirtamancers would get the most business.
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Re: Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

Postby Prodigial_Knight » Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:48 pm

Lipkin wrote:Turnamancy would be extremely popular with sides due to their ability to increase production. That's a huge boon, without getting into vehicles, which are also extremely helpful. Turning enemies is nice when it happens, but not nearly their most useful ability. Turnamancers are probably the most likely to be hired outside of the magic kingdom, other than Thinkomancers. Inside the magic kingdom, I think only Dollmancers and Dirtamancers would get the most business.


I really missed the mounts <-> Turnamancers connection that would make them much more popular.
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Re: Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

Postby Shai_hulud » Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:27 pm

Prodigial_Knight wrote:Signamancy :: Everybody's vain and a lot of the applications we've seen of this discipline are about making yourself and others look better so they would be popular I guess even if they also are the lawyers apparently.

I think that Signamancy works like this.
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Re: Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

Postby drachefly » Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:31 pm

Popular with whom? I can imagine shockamancers being extremely unpopular in the MK but very popular with warlords.
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Re: Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

Postby Shai_hulud » Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:41 pm

There's no real reason for Weirdomancers to be on the bottom yet. Also I would lower Foolamancy down to hated, since almost every quote from sides that don't use Foolamancy have been pretty negative, Overlord Firebaugh himself lumping them in with Carnies. Even the great minds have all seemed to lean towards learning Look over Fool magics.

Prodigial_Knight wrote:I really missed the mounts <-> Turnamancers connection that would make them much more popular.

Do you actually mean vehicles? That was in IPTSF 44:
Without a crew to command, her choice of boat was narrowed down to two. There was a small sailboat that could handle open water. If she wanted to try her hand at sailing to safety, that would be the way to go. But home was not over the ocean. Home was inland, and that meant heading up the river in the paddlewheel barge.

She really wanted to try the thing, anyway. You rarely saw self-powered vehicles—only a Turnamancer could make one—but they were incredibly useful, and highly valued as trade items. They had many of the benefits of constructed units like golems, but they functioned as items. Stealing this one should put it under her command. She thought.

Well, she hoped...
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Re: Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

Postby Prodigial_Knight » Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:18 pm

drachefly wrote:Popular with whom? I can imagine shockamancers being extremely unpopular in the MK but very popular with warlords.


I try to keep it from a MK perspective, but like you said when a type of caster would be really useful for their ruler and not so in the MK I tried to take note of it.


Shai_hulud wrote:There's no real reason for Weirdomancers to be on the bottom yet. Also I would lower Foolamancy down to hated, since almost every quote from sides that don't use Foolamancy have been pretty negative, Overlord Firebaugh himself lumping them in with Carnies. Even the great minds have all seemed to lean towards learning Look over Fool magics.


Hmm you make some good arguments, the least popular list was kind of empty with only Carnies and Croakies so that's why I looked at Weirdomancy and thought of "The Fly" for example and put them there.

I'm gonna edit Weird to the middle class and Foolamancy to the infamous (based on Overlord Firebaugh's quote).
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Re: Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

Postby Lilwik » Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:45 pm

Prodigial_Knight wrote:Date-a-mancy :: Even with the potential fallout from a bad hook-up I still see these guys and gals being really popular.
If we are going to evaluate Date-a-mancy, we must be sure to keep Book 2, Text 11 in mind. "Sides tend not to keep their Date-a-mancers very long, because knowing the cold truth behind our interpersonal relationships only causes grief."
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Re: Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

Postby Shai_hulud » Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:01 pm

That makes them unliked, sure. But I think based on the disdain for Croakers and Carnies and the fact that Wanda had to stand trial for the crime of merely being the wrong kind of caster, we can conclude they are actually hated. People don't like Date-a-mancers, but they don't seem to hunt them like monsters. Where as the ones on the bottom list seem to be. Just saying.

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Re: Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

Postby wih » Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:06 pm

My take on the Date-a-mancers from that passage; People don't dis-like Date-a-mancers. That specific Date-a-mancer that's been on your side for 100 turns? Not sure you want her around much longer.
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Re: Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

Postby Prodigial_Knight » Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:06 pm

Lilwik wrote:
Prodigial_Knight wrote:Date-a-mancy :: Even with the potential fallout from a bad hook-up I still see these guys and gals being really popular.
If we are going to evaluate Date-a-mancy, we must be sure to keep Book 2, Text 11 in mind. "Sides tend not to keep their Date-a-mancers very long, because knowing the cold truth behind our interpersonal relationships only causes grief."


It would be interesting to know how they deal with Date-a-mancers do they trade them to another side, send them on suicide missions, keep them banished in a small city and only bring them back for critical tasks, that would help me decide where to place them.

I said banish them to a small city, because I get the impression the ruler doesn't give a damn if the Date-a-mancer unintentionally started a love triangle between low lvl stabbers I think the one from that update was playing around with the CW and the leadership corps that's why he/she was a nuisance, keep them somewhere where they can't do much harm and it's good.

When you think about it just being a caster means you provide a huge wealth of options to your side, even if you're not allowed to practice your speciality the ruler can't use the portal to the MK every time he wants to buy something from there, the services of a Turnamancer.Thinkamancer healing potions etc he has to send a caster in.

Also about potential combat uses of Date-a-mancy a spell which gives your troops a "Team Edward" buff thus they get a huge bonus against enemies with the "Team Jacob" debuff applied to them.
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Re: Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

Postby Shai_hulud » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:09 pm

Prodigial_Knight wrote:Also about potential combat uses of Date-a-mancy a spell which gives your troops a "Team Edward" buff thus they get a huge bonus against enemies with the "Team Jacob" debuff applied to them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWK6dQOdri0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo4u4JJAPGk
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Re: Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

Postby Shai_hulud » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:02 pm

Ugh, just looked up the quote by Lord Firebaugh about Foolamancers here:
"We've had Foolamancy, tricking our eyes. We've faced Thinkamancy, tricking our wills, our minds. We've gone against Hat Magic and Weirdomancy and Carnymancy, the trickiest of the tricksters! A croaked body," he said to Wanda, "should go to the Titans, having served and sacrificed. You shouldn't be tricking it into getting up and fighting against its comrades in arms."
So as can be seen, I was remembering it wrong. He does not, in fact, lump Fools in with Carnies. So it's possible they aren't actually as hated as I thought they were. In fact it's not really evident he's lumping anyone (Hat and Weird) in with the Carnies at all. So fuck me and my shitty memory I guess.
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Re: Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

Postby 0beron » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:08 pm

Well, he just seems to hate magic in general at this point, so he's lumping it ALL together, just listing off the specific ones he has faced. The question is whether he feels this way because it is a common/default position of Warlords, or is it because he has had a underhanded Predictamancer bamboozling him about magic at large so she can do as she pleases with him in the dark. Also the fact that Predict and Luck are two of the harder disciplines to understand doesn't help with making it all seem foreign and tricky to him.
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Re: Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

Postby Shai_hulud » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:11 am

The context is further up in the thread, where I claimed he called Foolamancy and Carnymancy bad magics, but in the actual quote he just calls Carnies the trickiest. So I was saying my own earlier statements were wrong.
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Re: Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

Postby No one in particular » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:56 pm

As far as their fellow casters go, I think a lot of prestige comes from "actually useful" and "I can't do that"

For example, Dollamancers & Dirtamancers. They can provide you with actual, Stuff-based things. Sure, you could design some new livery for yourself, but getting a professional to do it is easier and looks better. As for the roads & architecture of Dirtamancers, you could stack bricks on top of them yourself, but that's a LOT of work, and it could fall over! So: more or less liked.

  • Thinkamancers are great if you want to talk to someone or do a REALLY complicated spell, but not much else. Also, they're stuck in their own heads, thinking thoughts about thoughts and what it means to think. So, they're quiet, usually useful, and more or less liked.
  • Predictamancers can tell you about something coming, but not in a really helpful way. They also don't do anything else, so ultimately, they're not given much though.
  • Foolamancers & Rhyme-o-mancers can entertain you; liked, not a LOT of respect.
  • Lookamancers & Findamancers can help you find someone or something (depending on where it is); liked, probably more respect.
  • Hat magic can get you small Stuff and is an alternative to the Thinkamancers; liked, respected.
  • Shockamancy & Croakamancy are really only good in combat, and no one in the MK wants to think about combat. Combat happens ELSEWHERE. Not here. Not in my backyard. Nope nope nope. Stop making me think about it!
  • Carnymancers... I think they're disliked for the special reason of cheating. They don't play by the Rules, and that just makes people really uncomfortable, especially in a Rule-based world like Erfworld. Weirdomancers probably fall under the same umbrella.
So, in summary: Croakamancy & Shockamancy are disliked because they make people uncomfortable and remind them that the outside is scary and people croak.
Carnies & Weirdos are disliked because they make people uncomfortable by screwing with their ideas of how the world works.

... and now I want to see the Upright Citizens Brigade or some guerrilla improv troupe of weirdomancers.
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Re: Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

Postby Lilwik » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:03 pm

No one in particular wrote:Predictamancers can tell you about something coming, but not in a really helpful way.
Knowing about the future is very useful. Everyone wants to know about the future. Just because we've seen examples of people squandering Predictions in the story doesn't mean that there aren't many people who can use Predictions well.
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Re: Status/Popularity of Each Magic Branch

Postby Sir Shadow » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:15 am

It's been stated by a predictamancer that if fate has no plans for you, there could be nothing much to see. I think they also fall under cryptically useless like a lot of fortune tellers in tales. Unless what you're asking is very specific you won't get an answer you understand, or you might not get one at all.
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