Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

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Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby raphfrk » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:34 pm

Zorcom wrote:Jillian allies with Jetstone due to her good relationship with Tramennis. Thus Tramennis gets the unorthodox chief warlord.


She would probably have to run rather than ally. I doubt an ally (even a mercenary) can be chief warlord.

Also, there could be morale effects of not picking a local for the position.
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Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Morni » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:40 pm

Whispri wrote:Yeah, problem with that is that Wanda, Haffaton's Erf-famous Croakamancer, is currently stomping all over Jetstone territory with an army that marches under Haffaton's banner. Also, the lack of an RCC in Haffaton's face is rather telling.

Haffaton just can't have fallen in Slately's day. Maybe during the reign of a King who wasn't so big on hunting Overlords, but not while Slately was in power and not while anyone who could have known Wanda's reputation was alive (obviously those in no position to pass the information along are excempt from this).


Why can't Jetstone the side be alive during Haffaton fall? Maybe Jetstone is at turn 10 000 and is a current neighbor of Haffaton.

I see no reason why they both side can't be alive at the same time.

We know that FAQ is far from Spacerock that's at least 4 turn on air unit mounts. (3 days 2 night) http://www.erfworld.com/book-2-archive/ ... -12-20.png

We can assume that the old/new Jetstone capitale is farther still... . We also know that Haffaton almost had FAQ in a complete circle. But we don't where spacerock territory is compare to the old haffaton territory.
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Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Zorcom » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:45 pm

raphfrk wrote:
Zorcom wrote:Jillian allies with Jetstone due to her good relationship with Tramennis. Thus Tramennis gets the unorthodox chief warlord.


She would probably have to run rather than ally. I doubt an ally (even a mercenary) can be chief warlord.

Also, there could be morale effects of not picking a local for the position.


Eh, there will be morale effects anyway, based on what Tramennis is planning to do. Having a 3rd party warlord be blamed for unorthodox moves would probably make some in Jetstone feel better about themselves (its not us breaking the tradition, its HER!)

Not positive how the Chief Warlord with allied units works though. In Royal Coalition (1), Ansom was the CW (to my understanding) for the entire coalition. This is based on the fact that he was ordering warlords from the other sides, even though it could potentially cause rebellion if other warlords thought the orders were unacceptable.

Still having CW from a side much smaller (or non existant) than Jetstone would be strange. Then again, Tram is nowhere near as tradition bound as most other players in Erfworld.
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Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby 0beron » Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:51 pm

hehehe426 wrote:
Shai_hulud wrote:But when did they capture Spacerock?
*points to book 2*
.... Uuunless you're talking something else like specific time? Idk. If you're just asking out of confusion... That's the entirety of book 2.
I think he means when did Jetstone originally come into possesion of Spacerock, in reference to the quandry over whether Jetstone existed as a side during Haffaton's days. To my knowledge, this isn't a piece of info we have learned, so his question is somehwat rhetorical if so, but yeah that's something that would help us be sure whether Jetstone existed back then.
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Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Venthus » Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:56 pm

Zorcom wrote:FAQ falls to Caesar. Jillian becomes barbarian again (she won't be present for the attack as it'll happen before she gets back). Jillian allies with Jetstone due to her good relationship with Tramennis. Thus Tramennis gets the unorthodox chief warlord.


Well that would be quite the slap in the face to Don (assuming he's still around, by then): destroying over the side that your side bankrupted itself on trying to prop up a few turns earlier.

And what on earth is going to happen to the heir? There's very strong implication that Jillian's pregnant with it, in a literal Stupidworld sense.
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Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Shai_hulud » Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:59 pm

hehehe426 wrote:
Shai_hulud wrote:But when did they capture Spacerock?


*points to book 2*
.... Uuunless you're talking something else like specific time? Idk. If you're just asking out of confusion... That's the entirety of book 2.

I meant when did Jestone capture Spacerock. Why would you even think I meant GK given the conversation up to this point?

Edit* Fuck, yeah. What Zeroberon said. Or more exactly, I meant people can't really use distance to Spacerock from Gobwin Knob, because Spacerock might not have even been part of Jetstone yet.
Last edited by Shai_hulud on Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Sixty » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:00 pm

Ansom was in charge of the Royal Crown Coalition but I doubt he was like... literally everyone else's chief warlord at the time as in giving them his bonus as if they were Jetstone troops. Jetstone was sorta the big dog of the RCC so it makes sense their guy would be calling the shots but to actually have Jetstone buffs affect allied units seems a bit much to me.
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Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Zorcom » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:13 pm

Sixty wrote:Ansom was in charge of the Royal Crown Coalition but I doubt he was like... literally everyone else's chief warlord at the time as in giving them his bonus as if they were Jetstone troops. Jetstone was sorta the big dog of the RCC so it makes sense their guy would be calling the shots but to actually have Jetstone buffs affect allied units seems a bit much to me.


As I said, I have no idea how CW in alliances work. Nor am I insisting on my theory - just thought it would neatly tie up some ends, while having some interesting implications.

I based my assumption on the analogy with natural allies. Do natural allies get bonuses from CW? It seems to be implied (not stated directly that I could find) that hobgoblins were/are getting bonuses from CW. It is also directly stated that natural allies can break alliances (both gobwins and elves were shown to do that). Which means that the line between natural allies and well...just allies is very thin.
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Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby drachefly » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:36 pm

hehehe426 wrote:
Shai_hulud wrote:But when did they capture Spacerock?


*points to book 2*
.... Uuunless you're talking something else like specific time? Idk. If you're just asking out of confusion... That's the entirety of book 2.


They = Jetstone, not Gobwin Knob.

And the answer is, we don't know. But it was a long time ago - could have been before or after Haffaton was a big deal.
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Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby ftl » Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:01 pm

Snarky answer: "during Spacerock (the battle)"
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Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby MadZuri » Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:42 pm

Book 1 page 128: Ansom leads the entire RCC in a dance fight. Direct evidence that allies receive leadership bonuses from the chief warlord of the alliance.
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Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby 0beron » Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:46 pm

MadZuri wrote:Book 1 page 128: Ansom leads the entire RCC in a dance fight. Direct evidence that allies receive leadership bonuses from the chief warlord of the alliance.
No....it's direct evidence that allied units can form stacks together. It doesn't tell us anything about his bonus under "normal conditions".
Last edited by 0beron on Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby nargbop » Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:08 pm

Zorcom wrote:FAQ falls to Caesar. Jillian becomes barbarian again (she won't be present for the attack as it'll happen before she gets back). Jillian allies with Jetstone due to her good relationship with Tramennis. Thus Tramennis gets the unorthodox chief warlord.


It's possible, but I find it more likely that Tramennis will summon another Perfect Warlord. This update, full of doubt and self-recrimination, makes me think that Tramennis wants someone as challenging as Parson to lead with him. Jillian has proven herself unreliable repeatedly.
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Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Kyrt » Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:47 pm

Nice...

But didn't Jetstone lose nearly 6000 men? Not just 500?
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Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby twhitt » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:29 pm

I find it unlikely that Jetstone can summon another Perfect Warlord. The Great Minds won't be doing another linkup for that purpose, since they've got what they want. The predictamancers aren't going to be on board, though it's not clear how they were involved the first time around. Jetstone does not have a lookamancer or a findamancer, which we know to be essential components of the spell, if not necessarily known to be in the link. All they really have access to is Charlie, possibly, and considering the other Perfect Warlord is out to kill him I can see why he might not be so keen to give a second one to a weakly-aligned side.

So if they can't make it, can't hire anyone to make it, and certainly can't afford to buy the scroll outright even if a spare exists (they don't have the 350,000 schmuckers, we know), how on earth would they pull this off?
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Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Lipkin » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:49 pm

twhitt wrote:I find it unlikely that Jetstone can summon another Perfect Warlord. The Great Minds won't be doing another linkup for that purpose, since they've got what they want. The predictamancers aren't going to be on board, though it's not clear how they were involved the first time around. Jetstone does not have a lookamancer or a findamancer, which we know to be essential components of the spell, if not necessarily known to be in the link. All they really have access to is Charlie, possibly, and considering the other Perfect Warlord is out to kill him I can see why he might not be so keen to give a second one to a weakly-aligned side.

So if they can't make it, can't hire anyone to make it, and certainly can't afford to buy the scroll outright even if a spare exists (they don't have the 350,000 schmuckers, we know), how on earth would they pull this off?

With Charlie's connections. Charlie can be the Thinkamancer of the link, and one of the casters of Unaroyal that swore only to serve royal sides was a Findamancer. That leaves only the need for a Predictamancer. If it's fated to be, who says they won't help?
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Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby MonteCristo » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:09 pm

0beron wrote:Thaaaaaaaank you Rob! Every time you give us a single date/duration, I pretty much do a jig.
Agreed that 80,000 isn't as long as it sounds, but it's a very valuable number to know, because I think it tells us something about Wanda's age and her peers. I still don't think Jetstone could have been around when Haffaton was gobbling up sides, given their proximity to FAQ.
Also, just love this whole update for the insights into Trem. It's exciting to see the direction he is thinking already....he's not condemning GK and cursing them for taking his family....he's talking about surviving, by (possibly) any means necessary.


I don't see why Jetstone could not have existed back then; in fact i think this reinforces the belief that they did. I mean, Haffaton was about 10,000 turns old when it fell. To assume that Jetstone began after haffaton fell is to assume that Wanda and Jillian are both over 80,000 turns old. Furtharmore, Jetstone is not THAT close to Faq. Gk is east of Faq, unaroyal is east of them and Jestone i think is somewhere furthar east... not to mention that's space rock and not necessarily the old capitol of Jetstone. Haffaton surrounded Faq on all sides except the south, but i don't think its ever made clear how far eastward it extended. Jetstone could have easily been one of the sides the neighbored the gigantic haffaton.

Heck, personally i think Spacerock might have been a result of haffaton's fall. It seems like it should be no coincidence that "spacerock" has a name that coincides with the "jetstone" theme(it was also a royal side). After haffaton fell, Jetstone may have moved to absorb many of its cities and then spun off one of those cities into SpaceRock... however things would did not remain peaceful and Jetstone and space rock would go to war with jetstone reclaiming Spacerock. Or its possible that one of Jetstones princes got ambitious when he saw the neutral capitol and decided to claim it for himself, naming himself SpaceRock the King; and thus the two sides were NEVER on good terms to begin with... though personally i'm curious as to which side GK might have spun off from.


Whispri wrote:Yeah, problem with that is that Wanda, Haffaton's Erf-famous Croakamancer, is currently stomping all over Jetstone territory with an army that marches under Haffaton's banner. Also, the lack of an RCC in Haffaton's face is rather telling.


Really i don't recall anything that suggests that Haffaton covered Jetstone space. We don't know a whole lot, but from what we do know would suggest that Faq is west of GK which is west of Unaroyal which is west of SpaceRock (location of jetstones old capitol is unknown). Haffaton may cover atleast where GK is, but that does not mean it stretches all the way to cover jetstone... Haffaton is a huge side and surrounds Faq on 3 sides, but it may stretch more to the NorthWest of Faq, than the south east. In fact looking up past pages supports that idea; When Jillian was fleeing Haffaton and heading back to Faq, she seemed to be heading SouthEast implying that the capitol of Haffaton is to the Northwest of Faq; the opposite direction of spacerock; which is again, somewhere east of Faq. Not only could jetstone have been around, its possible that unaroyal was aswell(though they would have been haffaton's neighbor)

Haffaton just can't have fallen in Slately's day. Maybe during the reign of a King who wasn't so big on hunting Overlords, but not while Slately was in power and not while anyone who could have known Wanda's reputation was alive (obviously those in no position to pass the information along are excempt from this).

First, that assumes that Slately was king back then; and we know theirs been atleast 15 king's that preceded him. Second, it assumes that there was enough royal sides willing to fight haffaton to actually build a coalition out of. We don't know how many royal sides existed back then, and given Haffaton's size, many sides would fear Haffaton too much to fight them. Even if someone like Slately or a previous king of jetstone WANTED to put haffaton's overlady "in her place", he might have a lot of trouble building up the support to do so; the royal sides may have also been on unfriendly terms. By the time Haffaton came close enough to matter to them, they would have already become an enormous side.

Not to mention the story was focused on Faq's encounter with Haffaton. There's not really much excuse to even mention what was going on between Haffaton and any of the other sides around it.


And as for Wanda; some may have heard of the Croakmancer's reputation, but that didn't mean they knew her by name; just that she was the croakmancer of Haffaton.
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Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby teratorn » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:56 pm

Zorcom wrote:FAQ falls to Caesar. Jillian becomes barbarian again (she won't be present for the attack as it'll happen before she gets back). Jillian allies with Jetstone due to her good relationship with Tramennis. Thus Tramennis gets the unorthodox chief warlord.


He would also get his brother back, unless Ansom captures Jillian. Captive GK forces and Ansom could suddenly become free in the disbanding following conquest of FaQ. I find none of those scenarios appealing.
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Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby Shai_hulud » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:03 pm

twhitt wrote:I find it unlikely that Jetstone can summon another Perfect Warlord. The Great Minds won't be doing another linkup for that purpose, since they've got what they want.
The Great Minds do not actually have a monopoly on linking.

twhitt wrote:All they really have access to is Charlie, possibly, and considering the other Perfect Warlord is out to kill him I can see why he might not be so keen to give a second one to a weakly-aligned side.
Charlie is afraid of "fated" warlords. Not "random warlord who is able to beat parson in a fight" warlords.

Lipkin wrote:With Charlie's connections. Charlie can be the Thinkamancer of the link, and one of the casters of Unaroyal that swore only to serve royal sides was a Findamancer. That leaves only the need for a Predictamancer. If it's fated to be, who says they won't help?
They need a Lookamancer, not a Predictamancer. Trem doesn't need a "Perfect" warlord who will fulfill 4 predictions, he just needs one who can fight Parson. His requirements are less strict than the spell that summoned Parson. Hell, Charlie probably has a list at least four people long already. ;)
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Re: Epilogue 22 - The King of Jetstone's Diary

Postby 0beron » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:30 pm

I think that it's high time I do another read-through of the comic and record all stated distances/directions so we can build a clearer picture of who is where in the world. I definitely agree that its hard to believe Wanda and company are really that old, but I wanna be a positive about the geography as possible before we put that to rest.
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