Lord Crush - Part 2

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Re: Lord Crush - Part 2

Postby Lipkin » Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:23 pm

Lilwik wrote:
rackhir wrote:No doubt he took the time to search his library for the history of faq when he found the book by Banhammer.
You must be right about that, though I wish it were a bit more explicit about the existence of an automatically published history of Faq. It has always seemed to me that since Jillian survived, Faq technically survived with her and therefore the history of Faq shouldn't have been published until at least her death or abdication. Considering how important secrecy was to Banhammer's Faq, it seems awfully unfair to publish the history just because Faq lost its capital. It was only a temporary setback and Faq needed its secrecy again when Faq regained its capital after the fall of Haffaton, but that's hard if the entire history of Faq is appearing in libraries all across Erfworld.

This story could be taking place after the death of Banhammer, and the fall of Faq. Remember that Jillian's Faq is a new side, that she just happens to have named after her previous one. She is the first ruler of New Faq.





Unrelated theories about the update.

With speculation about Parson being a Signamancer, this update, and the rest of this book could be to give us background on the discipline. I find it especially interesting that having a good library boosts the leveling of casters.

Also, Scrofula wants Crush to turn so that he has a thinker with which to discuss thing. People seem to be leaning towards a possible connection between Crush and Parson in the future, but what if it's instead Parson and Scrofula who meet, or have a connection in some way?
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Re: Lord Crush - Part 2

Postby bpzinn » Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:15 pm

Lipkin wrote:This story could be taking place after the death of Banhammer, and the fall of Faq. Remember that Jillian's Faq is a new side, that she just happens to have named after her previous one. She is the first ruler of New Faq.


Please substantiate this, as I believe it is wrong. The circumstances of Jillian going barbarian the due to Stanley are similar to Jillian going barbarian due to Olive. If Jillian started a new side instead of restarting the old one, then logically Banhammer established a new side when they took the Emerald City. Yet the was an heir of the Faq before it fell (the first time). And when Banhammer reestablished the side, she was its Heir. Which would not be the case if it was different side.

Banhammer was the current ruler of Faq when it fell and he became barbarian, and when he started a new side, it was still FAQ. Jillian was also the ruler of FAQ then all the cities fell and she became barbarian, and it is still FAQ when she started the side anew.

The Pink Warlord wrote:I love the way libraries work. I hope one day there is an Erfworld MMO and the auto-publishing of fallen sides is part of it. It'd just be cool.

Also liking Lord Crush. He seems like he'd be a valuable asset to the right side if only they appreciated what they had.

And yes, I'm thinking after the fall of FAQ


I think his side DID appreciate him. I get the impression he was the brainchild behind the alliance. It was a different side's ruler that caught a terminal case of stupid, to the likely detriment of everyone in the alliance, himself included.
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Re: Lord Crush - Part 2

Postby bladestorm » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:46 pm

Lamech wrote:You know an interesting trick for a would be bubble side would be to publish a book detailing their defeat. It would certainly take a while, but eventually it would finish any mention of you. Especially if combined with escaping to a bubble side. Think of what Stanely was planning. Now add a signamancer publishing the GK history that ends with a crazed foolamancer killing Stanley.

Interesting but completely pointless. Libraries are largely unused for their content and mainly used for the boost to casters. You could publish the exact steps it would take to get through your otherwise impenetrable defenses and claim some ultimate prize, and only a handful of individuals would ever read it. Of those, how many would assume that since your book has been published, your Side has already fallen and not even attempt to find your Side?
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Re: Lord Crush - Part 2

Postby badninja » Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:42 am

I feel that this update happens between the fall of King Banhammer and Jillian restarting the side. If my memory serves me correctly Stanly razed the city in his original run. Jillian was over the ruins when she choose to re-found FAQ with help from TV. based of what has been told King Banhammer would not allow his side to become so well know about if they could be found. I see this book showing up a form of signamancy telling what happens to those who see the easy way out of combat through peace.

Peace it self is the issue here, it is unfathomable to many in Erfworld. Here in stupid world we can and enjoy peace because it has purpose, not in Erfworld. Parson has come to Erfworld to break it, by what means we do not know yet. Marie's lines at the end of Book 2 are spot on, she states that the last war is brewing but it will be a long one. Erfworld is a world always at war so how do you stop it? Not play like King Banhammer and this alliance tried to do? Charlie's plan, what ever the fuck that is? Or just one major big battle a Final Crisis sort of battle?
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Re: Lord Crush - Part 2

Postby Beeskee » Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:11 am

Something I just realized: "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Rulers"

Rob, be careful with this. Schlock Mercenary was doing a parody called "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates" and got into trouble with the owners of the copyright for "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective ..." where "..." can apparently be anything they want.
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Re: Lord Crush - Part 2

Postby spriteless » Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:55 am

You know, I think Crush only assumed FAQ was ended because most sides in Erfworld have already existed have since ended. After all, 2 libraries with hundreds (or thousands?) of histories are unlikely to share any books, and Crush is aware that that reflects how very old and big Erfworld is.

I am tempted to use Bayes Theorem to figure out exactly how old Erfworld might be at the time of this writing. Wait, he never said how many books are in the libraries, so I'd have to guess using the illustrations from book 1. He has a sample size of, what, 4? That means big range of deviation is to be expected. And he said 'unlikely that a given library contained any book about a side you had ever even heard of,' without mentioning around how many sides you had ever heard of (might it be worth it to count sides 1 and 2?) or how unlikely it is. Never mind.

If he'd done something like say how many repeats within the 4 libraries... but it doesn't sound like those books are well organized, so how would a reader even know without reading them all?
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Re: Lord Crush - Part 2

Postby BakaGrappler » Wed Dec 25, 2013 4:08 am

Actually, FAQ HAS been ended. Twice. Three times if you count the raising of the captured Hoffaton capitol.

And I've been busy at work so I just have a couple things to say disjointedly.

1. Does anyone think Lord Crush's physical nature may have him be described as.... Huskey? And he's in a desert right now, and according to the OZ fiction, where were the shoes recovered? The edge of a desert.

2. A war where it looks like all that Lord Crush holds dear will be in the balance, and he's a very well thought of strategist. What are the chances you think Charlie will intervene on the So-Be-It Alliance's side after stacking the deck, and the condition for his help being that they give Lord Crush to Jetstone, who needs a heterodox strategist.

Two is a couple, right? I need sleep.
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Re: Lord Crush - Part 2

Postby warriortribble » Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:02 am

If I'm reading things correctly, this text isn't written in chronological order. I must admit, I don't understand why this particular update was done this way. Mayhap someone who has a better grasp of the literary arts could explain why it might have been written this way? This isn't something that bothers me, but it does confuse me.
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Re: Lord Crush - Part 2

Postby Archaic » Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:20 am

So, anyone can publish a book so long as they have access to a Signamancer and sufficient funding?

What would happen, I wonder, if Parson and Jack collaborated on a tell-all exposé about Charlie's history, including the fact that he's a Carny? How long would it take a book to propagate if it was Signamancer published?
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Re: Lord Crush - Part 2

Postby Beeskee » Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:21 am

Depends on if a carnymancer can rig the publishing rules. :D
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Re: Lord Crush - Part 2

Postby Lipkin » Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:47 am

bpzinn wrote:
Lipkin wrote:This story could be taking place after the death of Banhammer, and the fall of Faq. Remember that Jillian's Faq is a new side, that she just happens to have named after her previous one. She is the first ruler of New Faq.


Please substantiate this, as I believe it is wrong. The circumstances of Jillian going barbarian the due to Stanley are similar to Jillian going barbarian due to Olive. If Jillian started a new side instead of restarting the old one, then logically Banhammer established a new side when they took the Emerald City. Yet the was an heir of the Faq before it fell (the first time). And when Banhammer reestablished the side, she was its Heir. Which would not be the case if it was different side.

Banhammer was the current ruler of Faq when it fell and he became barbarian, and when he started a new side, it was still FAQ. Jillian was also the ruler of FAQ then all the cities fell and she became barbarian, and it is still FAQ when she started the side anew.



Jillian is shown becoming a Ruler, meaning she wasn't one before. Jillian's side is described as "new," and she is able to name the side and capitol whatever she wants.


http://www.erfworld.com/summer-update-2 ... ration.png
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Re: Lord Crush - Part 2

Postby Oberon » Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:37 am

Falcon X wrote:
Each library contained the same three books of Scripture (“The Book of Canon,” “The Book of Retcon,” and “The Book of Fanon”)

So, is it odd that you live in a world where everyone has a copy of how the world works? And not just how it works, How it used to work and how people think it works?

So, what would a "Book of Fannon" have in it? Is it something akin to "Theoretical physics" that are assumptions, but not facts.
The Book of Fanon would be a printing of these forums, with all the epileptic twees and ass-pulls intact for the readers to laugh about. It's a joke book, something to read on the toilet and chuckle at 5 minutes at a time, not a book anyone would ever pick up to read start to finish.
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Re: Lord Crush - Part 2

Postby Gregoriownd » Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:05 pm

I think the 3 books everyone gets are particularly interesting to know about. And something Parson should hopefully discover soon. I imagine those 3 books read something like this:

Cannon: Current patch notes
Retcon: Previous patch notes
Fanon: A forum of proposed changes by the players (the titans themselves, perhaps?)

At least, that is what it would likely read like to someone from stupidworld who is now within the world of Erf, as one's perspective in there would likely seem to be a mix of an MMO and a turned based strategy game (the MMO bits coming from the fact that you, yourself, can in fact level).
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Re: Lord Crush - Part 2

Postby Lilwik » Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:44 am

MadZuri wrote:If I understand correctly, FAQ technically fell twice already.
I'm not at all sure that "fell" has a technical meaning. It might just be a loose term with a vague meaning. There is more than one way to ruin a side, such as by preventing it from having a ruler (either by croaking or abdication), or capturing all of its capital sites. Either way you end up with a collection of barbarians where there was once a capital side, but in some ways the side can continue as long as it still has a ruler, so it's not entirely clear what is meant by "fell". Do both of those things count as falling, or is it only one or the other? Depending on the answer, Faq may have fallen twice or it may not even have fallen once. Thanks to that uncertainty, we still can't be sure exactly what triggers the publication of the history.

MadZuri wrote:We've seen that no capital means no side, with or without remaining units that can re-found the side.
Where have we seen that? In Book 0, Episode 62, Wanda seems to be under the impression that Faq is a side without a capital.

Lipkin wrote:Remember that Jillian's Faq is a new side, that she just happens to have named after her previous one. She is the first ruler of New Faq.
That's certainly true in a sense, since Faq has at least suffered a weakness in continuity. Unfortunately I don't see how we have any way of knowing if that is a mechanical truth of Erfworld or merely the way that Erfworlders are choosing to think of the new Faq. Banhammer continued to rule a side called Faq after Faq lost its cities, and then he rebuilt those cities much like Jillian has done. How many sides called Faq is that? It might be as many as 7:
  1. the original Faq before being conquered by Haffaton
  2. the barbarian Faq that was just Banhammer, Jillian, and the casters before taking Efbaum
  3. the refounded Faq that's capital was Efbaum
  4. the barbarian Faq after leaving Efbaum
  5. Banhammer's rebuilt Faq with the help of Charlie
  6. Jillian's barbarian Faq after Stanley conquered Faq (if Banhammer had one then Jillian should have had one for the same mechanical reasons, though we never hear a mention of it)
  7. Jillian's rebuilt Faq with the help of Transylvito
That could mean 6 automagically published histories of Faq, depending on the details we don't know. Or are the barbarian Faqs the same side as the capital Faqs that came before, with only the refoundings causing mechanically new sides? In that case it would be 4 Faqs.

Lipkin wrote:Jillian is shown becoming a Ruler, meaning she wasn't one before.
That might be what that means, but I could just as easily believe that the word "ruler" is being used in a nontechnical sense. Maybe technically she's been a ruler all along, but it didn't really count because she wasn't ruling anyone but herself and a few gwiffons. Based on Book 0, Episode 52, there's no denying the fact that Jillian became a ruler when Faq was destroyed and Banhammer was killed, though it's not certain if she remained a ruler for all the time between then and refounding Faq.

Lipkin wrote:Jillian's side is described as "new," and she is able to name the side and capitol whatever she wants.
It wouldn't surprise me at all to discover that the ruler of a side always has the power to rename the side, whether the side is mechanically new or not. A ruler certainly has the power to change what people call the side, just as he can order people to wear bowls on their heads.
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Re: Lord Crush - Part 2

Postby Lamech » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:51 am

bladestorm wrote: Of those, how many would assume that since your book has been published, your Side has already fallen and not even attempt to find your Side?

That's the point. Fake a defeat. Fake one of the automagically published books. You have your nice unfallen side, with a nice record of falling.
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Re: Lord Crush - Part 2

Postby Lipkin » Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:43 am

Lamech wrote:
bladestorm wrote: Of those, how many would assume that since your book has been published, your Side has already fallen and not even attempt to find your Side?

That's the point. Fake a defeat. Fake one of the automagically published books. You have your nice unfallen side, with a nice record of falling.

It's probably possible to pull off, but ultimately expensive and pointless for a few reasons.

It's not as if sides rely on book knowledge to indicate when a side falls.

Books pop randomly, and Erf is huge. It's unlikely anyone you were trying to fake out would ever see your book.

The enemies you are trying to fool probably already know where you are. Even if you had a setup like Faq and had a Predictamancer to indicate when your Foolamancer should veil your city and make it look like Ruins, inevitably a side will try and come and claim the site, and then the jig is up. I suppose it would be possible to reestablish at a hidden capitol site like Faq had, like what Stanley tried to do, but publishing a book wouldn't really help in that regard either.
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Re: Lord Crush - Part 2

Postby The Pink Warlord » Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:43 pm

I wonder if Warlord/Leader bonuses can be different.

Lord Crush seems like he'd have a really good bonus to admin actions and maybe strategy ones but less so to tactical ones. He could develop a good army but not exactly inspire them the way, say, Ansom could.
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Re: Lord Crush - Part 2

Postby wih » Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:57 pm

I suspect anything linked to "inspire" would have more effect on morale, or Loyalty (assuming they're connected but different).
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Re: Lord Crush - Part 2

Postby Free Radical » Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:06 pm

Lilwik wrote:That might be what that means, but I could just as easily believe that the word "ruler" is being used in a nontechnical sense. Maybe technically she's been a ruler all along, but it didn't really count because she wasn't ruling anyone but herself and a few gwiffons. Based on Book 0, Episode 52, there's no denying the fact that Jillian became a ruler when Faq was destroyed and Banhammer was killed, though it's not certain if she remained a ruler for all the time between then and refounding Faq.

From when Wanda briefly became Overlord of Goodminton, we know that her Ruler senses disappeared when she became a barbarian. That definitely makes it seem that Jillian becoming a Ruler when she re-founded FAQ has to have caused a technical change between being a unit without Ruler senses to one with Ruler senses, so using "becoming a Ruler" in any non-technical sense doesn't seem to make a lot of sense there.

All at once, completely new senses opened up in her head and she was flooded with information. She could see the distant lights of minds, know the numbers and locations and points of units.
...
Those new senses she'd been given went dark just as suddenly as they'd come to her, although she could now sense the upkeep of the units she was stacked with. These units were hers alone, now. In a horror of isolation and silence, Lady Wanda Firebaugh understood that she was a barbarian.
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Re: Lord Crush - Part 2

Postby drachefly » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:02 am

There could have been as few as 2 Faqs, if continuity of leadership OR capital is sufficient to continue the side.
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