Map of Erfworld

Speculation, discoveries, complaints, accusations, praise, and all other Erfworld discussion.

Re: Map of Erfworld

Postby Ferrous » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:27 pm

And, assuming that all bats have a move of 22, we can get an idea about how many hexes there are between the chokepoint and Transylvito (4 days travel for the warlords and their bats, 2 days for Jill and her gwiffons - ~80 hexes or so)
"Those who live in fear deserve what they get." -Ivan Moldavi
Marooner | Banjoist | Mapamancer
Ferrous
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:54 pm

Re: Map of Erfworld

Postby DevilDan » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:02 pm

Ferrous wrote:And, assuming that all bats have a move of 22, we can get an idea about how many hexes there are between the chokepoint and Transylvito (4 days travel for the warlords and their bats, 2 days for Jill and her gwiffons - ~80 hexes or so)

That's problematic: we've seen TV warlords carry bats in their capes. Can they act as bat carriers, thus extending the range of the bats?
They could not possibly win. Every man knew this with certainty, and lo it was glorious.
User avatar
DevilDan
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:44 pm

Re: Map of Erfworld

Postby Ferrous » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:59 pm

How is that problematic? Given what we know of Jillian's Gwiffons (about 56 move each, iirc), that much makes sense.
"Those who live in fear deserve what they get." -Ivan Moldavi
Marooner | Banjoist | Mapamancer
Ferrous
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:54 pm

Re: Map of Erfworld

Postby raphfrk » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:00 pm

DevilDan wrote:Looks like a great starting point! I'm afraid I'd have to go through the whole comic to see if there's anything to correct or add. We'd have to draw a list of "rules," of the relative positions of point x versus point y to do that, I suppose.


It would be a matter of going through every page and posting any position information :)

As a start: :)
Jillian is at least 24+ move, though probably lots more.
raphfrk
Erfabet Supporter!
Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 828
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 10:38 am

Re: Map of Erfworld

Postby pSycHOtic chICkeN » Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:51 pm

The hex pattern is not necessarily confined to 2-dimensions. The hex pattern actually cannot be true hexagons and still allow for mountains. If you allow for a something like the nanobud shape it would be easy to hide a city in the bud because other cities would assume they had scouted every hex. Not sure how to post pictures but here is a link:

http://eltamiz.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/nanocapullo.jpg

Time and space in erfworld are relative to the observers hex. Curvature in time-space would be possible in a hex-based-theory of relativity. If the hexes are on a curved surface you can't draw certain conclusions about the direction to another location. Turning left (60 degree) 6 times would not necessarily get you going in the same direction as you started. North South East and West are relative to the observer's hex.
pSycHOtic chICkeN
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:25 pm

Re: Map of Erfworld

Postby Ferrous » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:58 pm

Interesting.

(image code is
Code: Select all
[img]insert url here[/img]
)

I'm a little skeptical. It's not clear if erfworld is even round, since so many other things from "real life" don't apply. Parson is in the middle of a very complex board game.

Also, I'm guessing that the mountains are a "terrain type" in Erfworld - some hexes are forests, some are marshes, some are hills and some are mountains.
"Those who live in fear deserve what they get." -Ivan Moldavi
Marooner | Banjoist | Mapamancer
Ferrous
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:54 pm

Re: Map of Erfworld

Postby pSycHOtic chICkeN » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:30 am

The world Parsons entered is divided into spaces called a "hex". The pattern of a normal brick wall would fit the rules just as well as a plane filled with hexagons. Each brick touches 6 other bricks, movement works out the same. We have seen maps made up of hexagons but that may have been the format used by the lookamancer just to keep things simple for parsons and the tool. A "hex" can be close to a hexagon most of the time and still allow for a wide variety of structures.

Consider a ceramic mug filled with Guinness. At the surface were the mug meets the froth the beer forms a 2 dimensional hexagonal lattice. The surface area inside of one bubble would be one "hex". Assume the model is frozen in time, not refluxing. In order to compare to erf-world make the carbon dioxide bubbles rocks. Parsons is confined to the glaze in one hex. The walls of Gobwin Knob are like a scratch in the glaze. Flying creatures can move through the ceramic region. The nice thing about foam is that it conforms to any surface. Some of the "hexes" might contact 5 or 7 other hexes when there is a sharp curve but the vast majority always touch six.

Guinness can be consumed in a flask, a beaker, a vase, a bowl or a wide variety of creative vessels. It tastes about the same and the foam still creates a hex grid at the surface. The terrain in erf-world have various types like mountains, water, lava, forest, but that would be like changing the glaze on the mug. The glaze does not effect the shape of the mug or the shape of the Guinness.

A ceramic mug can also have a ceramic handle. The handle could also be hollow. This is not a hex grid that you would expect to see on a map. But the since everything in erf-world is relative to the observers hex there is no reason that erf-world can not have the shape of frozen Guinness in a hollow handled mug.

Today I thought of one step further. Suppose the mug handle is hollow, but the hollow space is not connected to the inside of the mug. That would mean that non-flying creatures could explore all of the glaze in the hexs inside the mug and never find the inside of the mug handle. However, a gwiffon could fly to the area where the handle attaches and then fly straight "up" and fall into the handle. That could explain the FAQ's ability to remain hidden and would also explain why Jillian did not bother putting walls around FAQ.
pSycHOtic chICkeN
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:25 pm

Re: Map of Erfworld

Postby Angular » Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:15 am

In the Summer Updates, the first stop from "The Gap" to Transylvito is Aqua Velva
SU 13
http://www.erfworld.com/page/26/

Only one turn after they are close to TSylv city, near Mount Mofo. The city of Duckula is far away.
SU 17
http://www.erfworld.com/page/22/

And ended in the hall of Don king
SU 18
http://www.erfworld.com/page/21/
Angular
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:08 am

Re: Map of Erfworld

Postby Ferrous » Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:24 am

pSycHOtic chICkeN wrote:The world Parsons entered is divided into spaces called a "hex". The pattern of a normal brick wall would fit the rules just as well as a plane filled with hexagons. Each brick touches 6 other bricks, movement works out the same. We have seen maps made up of hexagons but that may have been the format used by the lookamancer just to keep things simple for parsons and the tool. A "hex" can be close to a hexagon most of the time and still allow for a wide variety of structures.

Consider a ceramic mug filled with Guinness. At the surface were the mug meets the froth the beer forms a 2 dimensional hexagonal lattice. The surface area inside of one bubble would be one "hex". Assume the model is frozen in time, not refluxing. In order to compare to erf-world make the carbon dioxide bubbles rocks. Parsons is confined to the glaze in one hex. The walls of Gobwin Knob are like a scratch in the glaze. Flying creatures can move through the ceramic region. The nice thing about foam is that it conforms to any surface. Some of the "hexes" might contact 5 or 7 other hexes when there is a sharp curve but the vast majority always touch six.

Guinness can be consumed in a flask, a beaker, a vase, a bowl or a wide variety of creative vessels. It tastes about the same and the foam still creates a hex grid at the surface. The terrain in erf-world have various types like mountains, water, lava, forest, but that would be like changing the glaze on the mug. The glaze does not effect the shape of the mug or the shape of the Guinness.

A ceramic mug can also have a ceramic handle. The handle could also be hollow. This is not a hex grid that you would expect to see on a map. But the since everything in erf-world is relative to the observers hex there is no reason that erf-world can not have the shape of frozen Guinness in a hollow handled mug.

Today I thought of one step further. Suppose the mug handle is hollow, but the hollow space is not connected to the inside of the mug. That would mean that non-flying creatures could explore all of the glaze in the hexs inside the mug and never find the inside of the mug handle. However, a gwiffon could fly to the area where the handle attaches and then fly straight "up" and fall into the handle. That could explain the FAQ's ability to remain hidden and would also explain why Jillian did not bother putting walls around FAQ.


I more-or-less understood your point the first time. My point is that I don't think the system is that complicated - I think Erfworld is made to resemble more of a board game with simpler rules - a flat world with different terrain types per hex, and different rules per terrain type. FAQ remained hidden, according to Jillian, not because of any geographical locations per se, but rather through a combination of Foolamancer and Predictamancer.

I won't preclude the possibility that you are correct, however until evidence arises that there is no other explanation for some of the mysteries of erfworld, or direct word from the Titans themselves, I will continue to operate under the assumption that the world is flat and under a simpler system.

I hereby name you the forum's Galileo.
"Those who live in fear deserve what they get." -Ivan Moldavi
Marooner | Banjoist | Mapamancer
Ferrous
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:54 pm

Re: Map of Erfworld

Postby moose o death » Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:02 pm

keep in mind on average your looking at over two hundred hexes between cities. this map of erfworld is in actual fact larger than earth the way things are going.

secondly, have you established if a city occupies multiple hexes?

we now know that the steepness of a mountain hex multiplies the move taken to cross it. mild is +1 steep is +2 and sheer is +3, and this is for a flying mount. it's probably double for infantry. so this will skew your distances considerably we don't know about the mountain ranges that exist with exception for the minty mountains.

lastly hex's don't divide evenly but triangles do, and you can easily make hexes from triangles. if i get time i'll look into making some 3d stuff. my new video card leaks memory if i run XSi for too long.
http://moosetech.blogspot.com/ my video game art. in easy to read blog form. swing on by. laugh at my spelling.
User avatar
moose o death
 
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Map of Erfworld

Postby moose o death » Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:47 pm

wow have you guys bitten off alot.

but this image may help you

i added GK around the centre ish. i can also supply the pattern overlay for photoshop if you REALLY want to make a bigger one.

does anyone know if north/south east/west have been mentioned as a hex grid world lacks two cardinal directions. the map i've supplied only has six cardinal directions east, west, NE, NW, SE, SW. there is no north or south specifically as you can't move in that direction. you can only alternatively shift back and forth between various directions in a northward fashion.

however just travelling in a straight line tends to cost the same amount of move anyway so there isn't a point in doing so. and it would lead to confusing orders if you ordered a unit south, they would try to stay on a southbound move but they would have to shift between a SE and SW heading every move point. this could result in them wasting one move correcting for arriving in the wrong one of two hexes. for simplicity sake, commanders would only ever issue move se for 8 then sw for 9 to get exact arrivals. but then you add uneven etrrain such as mountain hexes which penalise the unit move.

from a video game design point of view i would focus on not having a east west, this leaves the flat walls towards the top of the screen. having all the diagonals running along the top edge wouldn't be visually pleasing.
http://moosetech.blogspot.com/ my video game art. in easy to read blog form. swing on by. laugh at my spelling.
User avatar
moose o death
 
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Map of Erfworld

Postby raphfrk » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:51 am

moose o death wrote:wow have you guys bitten off alot.


Another issue is that the whole project depends on there actually being a map, that all the in-comic info is based on.



I wonder if it would be possible to set up something on the wiki.

For example, your map could be background, and then overlays added. I think it is possible to directly position stuff using wiki code.
raphfrk
Erfabet Supporter!
Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 828
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 10:38 am

Re: Map of Erfworld

Postby moose o death » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:44 am

raphfrk wrote:
moose o death wrote:wow have you guys bitten off alot.


Another issue is that the whole project depends on there actually being a map, that all the in-comic info is based on.



I wonder if it would be possible to set up something on the wiki.

For example, your map could be background, and then overlays added. I think it is possible to directly position stuff using wiki code.


the other issue is mountain hexes affect move , so even if there was a map you'd never get the mountains right unless we were given a huge amount of info to work with. you'll need two to three descriptions on how to get to hex xy from known locations to accurately triangulate the location.
http://moosetech.blogspot.com/ my video game art. in easy to read blog form. swing on by. laugh at my spelling.
User avatar
moose o death
 
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Map of Erfworld

Postby Ferrous » Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:09 am

I forgot about that. That will confuse the issue considerably. For instance, it's not clear if Jillian and the TV warlords flew to Transilvito over mountains, or in a narrow pathway/valleyway
"Those who live in fear deserve what they get." -Ivan Moldavi
Marooner | Banjoist | Mapamancer
Ferrous
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:54 pm

Re: Map of Erfworld

Postby DevilDan » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:25 pm

Well, MOD, you could get North and South by rotating the grid 90 degrees. You'd lose exact East and West movement, of course. Decisions...
They could not possibly win. Every man knew this with certainty, and lo it was glorious.
User avatar
DevilDan
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:44 pm

Re: Map of Erfworld

Postby atteSmythe » Mon Oct 05, 2009 1:49 pm

Ferrous wrote:I'm a little skeptical. It's not clear if erfworld is even round, since so many other things from "real life" don't apply. Parson is in the middle of a very complex board game.

Until we hear more, I've been assuming it's cylindrical. My guess would be that if you go far enough north or south, you'd find hexes that are literally impassable.
User avatar
atteSmythe
 
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:39 pm

Re: Map of Erfworld

Postby raphfrk » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:30 pm

atteSmythe wrote:Until we hear more, I've been assuming it's cylindrical. My guess would be that if you go far enough north or south, you'd find hexes that are literally impassable.


It could also be a donut shape. If you go far enough North, you end up at the bottom of the map again. However, that seems unlikely and would be unusual.

However, I agree, a rectangular map with both East and West edges connected seems the most likely configuration.
raphfrk
Erfabet Supporter!
Erfabet Supporter!
 
Posts: 828
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 10:38 am

Re: Map of Erfworld

Postby Ferrous » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:26 pm

Well, okay. A cylindrical shape is something we can work with, but for the time being, I'm not sure it matters.
"Those who live in fear deserve what they get." -Ivan Moldavi
Marooner | Banjoist | Mapamancer
Ferrous
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:54 pm

Re: Map of Erfworld

Postby Tubal-Cain » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:57 am

Summer Update 40 gives us:
Haggar -- A country to the east.
River Phoenix: A natural border between Haggar and Jetstone
Pantstown: A city on or near the River Phoenix's west bank.
Toughskin, Oshkosh, Sansabelt: cities east of Pantstown. Presumably across the river.
Bridgestone and Firestone: cities on Jetstone's border with Unaroyal, closest Jetstone cities to Unaroyal's capital.
Rollingstone and Penistone: No location data.
Tubal-Cain
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:00 am

Re: Map of Erfworld

Postby moose o death » Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:05 pm

DevilDan wrote:Well, MOD, you could get North and South by rotating the grid 90 degrees. You'd lose exact East and West movement, of course. Decisions...

i know, that's why i asked if anyone knew of a particular cardinal not being used
http://moosetech.blogspot.com/ my video game art. in easy to read blog form. swing on by. laugh at my spelling.
User avatar
moose o death
 
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 4:17 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PreviousNext

Return to Everything Else Erfworld

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest