Summer Updates - 039

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Re: Summer Updates - 039

Postby TheWombat » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:47 am

moose o death wrote:IF the bracer IS limited in use it would still be per turn. eg 5 calcs per turn


Where is the basis to this argument? What other magic item have we seen in erfworld that has a limit that refreshes per turn? You're thinking too much about magic and not enough about what is powering it.
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Re: Summer Updates - 039

Postby hazel-rah » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:17 pm

TheWombat wrote:
moose o death wrote:IF the bracer IS limited in use it would still be per turn. eg 5 calcs per turn


Where is the basis to this argument? What other magic item have we seen in erfworld that has a limit that refreshes per turn? You're thinking too much about magic and not enough about what is powering it.


Well we know that a thinkamancer can only send so many messages in a turn, so it would make sense that other 'mancies have a limit, so the bracer could well have one too. The bracer was given to him in order to give him abilities he should have had in the first place, like the glasses, so I don't think it would be taken away from him.

But at the same time I doubt he could sit down for an entire turn and just do math, I think that would just be abusing the system.

On another note, am I the only person that thinks this is just a story? We aren't going to see him sit down and work out exactly where the tools are, or when people will attack, and probably not even the cup and ball thing. Why? Because that would be terrible writing, an impossible warlord that can manipulate anyone with math, has every arkentool, and an army of dragons and the undead would not keep people reading.

A lot of the things you guys are asking about have absolutely no use in the plot, and probably don't have an answer. The bracer could predict it's future use because it's useful for the story, and we will see it again when it's useful, not to play theoretical games with what it can and can't see.
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Re: Summer Updates - 039

Postby gameboy1234 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:21 pm

raphfrk wrote:
moose o death wrote:the simple solution to all of those questions is the arkentool amplifies the units inate abilities and enables previously locked talents.


It is also simple that the pliers has a stat:

"Attune requirements:
Class: Croakamancer
Min Fate stat: 10"



This is what I believe. Akrentools have function independent of the holder. They may do different things for different unit types, but what they do is determined by the Titans, not the holder. If none of the requirements for attunement are met, then it probably has some base stat like

"if none of the above, then
+6 Artifact bonus
+10 vs undead."
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Re: Summer Updates - 039

Postby Vreejack » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:25 pm

If Parson's bracer had half the powers some people are alluding to it then it would be even more game-unbalancing than Wanda's pliers. It would in fact be pretty close to "God mode." It is very likely that the bracers are only good at making calculations on the data that is available to Parson, perhaps Charlie in this case, and probably whatever is obvious to the bracer itself---for example: the bracer probably knew it could make those sorts of calculations, so it evaluated its own calculations as being very, very useful to Charlie.

Now here's the kicker. Would it have evaluated it's own calculations so highly if it did not expect Charlie and Parson to discover this special ability this turn?
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Re: Summer Updates - 039

Postby gameboy1234 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:32 pm

moose o death wrote:the dirtamancy trap (epic dirtamncy ability) it could have been a foolamancy trap and all sides were informed they had lost all troops where in fact they hadn't. epic level thinkamancy trap that mass converted all troops to GK.


True, the Arkenpliers didn't have to be croakmancy, they could have been foolmancy or thinkmancy. I bet Charlie is most worried about the latter, the Arkenpliers might be a counter to his dish.

Patty, Maxine, and LaVerne could have been foolmancy themselves. If the Akrenpliers were a foolmancy artifact, those "arkons" could have been dwagons with a veil that Charlie can't penetrate. That would worry him too.
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Re: Summer Updates - 039

Postby joosy » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:12 pm

Vreejack wrote:If Parson's bracer had half the powers some people are alluding to it then it would be even more game-unbalancing than Wanda's pliers.


Parson's bracer has the exact power that the story calls for. No more. No less.

It's like 'How fast can the Enterprise go?' 'It travels at the speed of plot.'.
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Re: Summer Updates - 039

Postby Justyn » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:24 pm

joosy wrote:Based on the 'fact' that there is a 1 in 200 chance a feral dwagon will pop and based on the number of reachable mountain hexes around GK, there is a chance that there are anywhere from zero to 3 dwagons in those hexes on any given turn. .


No, actually, there will be between zero and six hundred dwagons. It's just that the odds of each and every single mountain hex reachable by Stanley popping a feral dwagon on the same turn are... astronomical.

But a quadrillion to one (not the actual odds) doesn't mean zero; it just means that the safe assumption is to say that it just isn't going to happen.
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Re: Summer Updates - 039

Postby TheWombat » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:25 pm

hazel-rah wrote:Well we know that a thinkamancer can only send so many messages in a turn, so it would make sense that other 'mancies have a limit, so the bracer could well have one too. The bracer was given to him in order to give him abilities he should have had in the first place, like the glasses, so I don't think it would be taken away from him.


The bracer is not a caster, it is a magic item. We haven't seen any proof that the limits of a caster are the same as a limits of a magic item.
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Re: Summer Updates - 039

Postby HandofShadows » Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:44 pm

[quote="gameboy1234]This is what I believe. Akrentools have function independent of the holder. They may do different things for different unit types, but what they do is determined by the Titans, not the holder. [/quote]

I would go one step farther. There is some evidence that the Arkentools on some level are sentient or slightly alive. They decide who will attune with them and may even influance things to get to the person they will attune with.
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Re: Summer Updates - 039

Postby moose o death » Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:49 pm

The bracer is not a caster, it is a magic item. We haven't seen any proof that the limits of a caster are the same as a limits of a magic item.


i said IF it were to have a limit, it would be number of uses per turn. when the calculator and the bracer merged they became a new item and any form of battery became moot. it is no longer an earth math device it's a mathamancy item. and for all any of us know calculating results of events yet to happen are completely normal calculations in mathamancy.

frankly the odds would be depressing in most cases
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Re: Summer Updates - 039

Postby DevilDan » Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:24 pm

Who's to say that the battery isn't fully recharged (or at least returned to its original charge) every day at the start of the turn?
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Re: Summer Updates - 039

Postby Mr. Goodwraith » Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:25 pm

Just noticed something else: Parson uses another uncensored expletive in this update, so he seems to have permanently (rather than temporarily) escaped Erfly censorship. Also, the actual word appears in the eyebook text, which makes me wonder (yes, here comes one of those "if a tree falls..." philosophical questions): Is Charlie able to read that word on his end, or does it appear as "booped" for him? In other words, Parson can hear and see himself using Earthly swear words now, but can anyone else hear or see him do so?
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Re: Summer Updates - 039

Postby DevilDan » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:16 pm

Mr. Goodwraith wrote:Just noticed something else: Parson uses another uncensored expletive in this update, so he seems to have permanently (rather than temporarily) escaped Erfly censorship. Also, the actual word appears in the eyebook text, which makes me wonder (yes, here comes one of those "if a tree falls..." philosophical questions): Is Charlie able to read that word on his end, or does it appear as "booped" for him? In other words, Parson can hear and see himself using Earthly swear words now, but can anyone else hear or see him do so?

He's used more than a few since the first one.
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Re: Summer Updates - 039

Postby ftl » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:04 pm

joosy wrote:
on a completely unrelated note.. I wonder if Charlie was trying to see how close he could get to GK to do some aerial spying. 'just passing through' HA. Likely story.


Great call. I hadn't even considered that, though in retrospect it's SO much more likely.

I feel stupid for falling for "Just passing through."
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Re: Summer Updates - 039

Postby Vreejack » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:37 pm

joosy wrote:
Vreejack wrote:If Parson's bracer had half the powers some people are alluding to it then it would be even more game-unbalancing than Wanda's pliers.


Parson's bracer has the exact power that the story calls for. No more. No less.

It's like 'How fast can the Enterprise go?' 'It travels at the speed of plot.'.


I think that's actually a quote concerning Babylon 5. But I always thought it was very stupid, it was just usually too cumbersome to check up on that. When you can trivially check on something then it needs to be consistent or the audience throws their popcorn. When a character has a power at one point that he seems to forget about later then the writing is clearly bad, this is why I give Rob the benefit of the doubt and expect that Parson's artifact follows some logical rule set that does not change.
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Re: Summer Updates - 039

Postby DevilDan » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:14 pm

Vreejack wrote:
joosy wrote:Parson's bracer has the exact power that the story calls for. No more. No less.

It's like 'How fast can the Enterprise go?' 'It travels at the speed of plot.'.


I think that's actually a quote concerning Babylon 5. But I always thought it was very stupid, it was just usually too cumbersome to check up on that. When you can trivially check on something then it needs to be consistent or the audience throws their popcorn. When a character has a power at one point that he seems to forget about later then the writing is clearly bad, this is why I give Rob the benefit of the doubt and expect that Parson's artifact follows some logical rule set that does not change.


I always thought that it was the distances between stars and planets that shrank and grew in accordance with the need of the plot: the starships themselves always travel at whatever speed is canonically appropriate.
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Re: Summer Updates - 039

Postby Yosarian » Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:08 pm

moose o death wrote:
The bracer is not a caster, it is a magic item. We haven't seen any proof that the limits of a caster are the same as a limits of a magic item.


i said IF it were to have a limit, it would be number of uses per turn. when the calculator and the bracer merged they became a new item and any form of battery became moot. it is no longer an earth math device it's a mathamancy item. and for all any of us know calculating results of events yet to happen are completely normal calculations in mathamancy.


Eh, we don't know that. We do know the bracer was worthless until he put the watch in.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if, at some key point in the future, right before some big battle, Parson's bracer suddenly went dead and failed him, suddenly leaving him high and dry when he was least expecting it. Just seems like it would be a very effective tension adding plot device.
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Re: Summer Updates - 039

Postby moose o death » Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:32 am

assuming the bracer is a mathamancy item now, then we have no reason to believe it needs batteries. it would run on magic and each caster gets their magic restored every turn. it would be number of uses per turn under that circumstance

if the bracer is really just a bracer and the calculator is tsill the important aqspect. then batteries MAY be a concern, but parson's stubble disappears every morning and his clothes are clean, and his socks get repaired. do you really think the batteries will be overlooked in this situation? when parson plotted everything he had seems to have been erfed up. everything is at the same level of clenliness he arrived in . including a persistant pizza stain. i'm fairly confident batteries are covered...IF they are even needed by the bracer version of the watch
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Re: Summer Updates - 039

Postby DevilDan » Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:51 am

This had been considered already...

DevilDan wrote:Who's to say that the battery isn't fully recharged (or at least returned to its original charge) every day at the start of the turn?
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Re: Summer Updates - 039

Postby Yosarian » Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:36 pm

moose o death wrote:assuming the bracer is a mathamancy item now, then we have no reason to believe it needs batteries.


Well, it might be a cross between Earth physics and Erfworld mechanics, just like Parson himself seems to be in some ways. In which case, it might have some of the properties of either, or both.

if the bracer is really just a bracer and the calculator is tsill the important aqspect. then batteries MAY be a concern, but parson's stubble disappears every morning and his clothes are clean, and his socks get repaired. do you really think the batteries will be overlooked in this situation? when parson plotted everything he had seems to have been erfed up. everything is at the same level of clenliness he arrived in . including a persistant pizza stain. i'm fairly confident batteries are covered...IF they are even needed by the bracer version of the watch


Yeah, but erfworld mechanics naturally cleans and feeds all people (units), and pops them food, as part of their upkeep cost. It does that for every unit, including parson.

It might "renew batteries", or it might not; it's probably an issue that's never come up on Erfworld before.
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