Empires X.1 Rules Revision

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Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby LTDave » Mon May 05, 2014 7:42 am

Empires X is now in its 13th turn. Up until recently, we have had 8 players, which is remarkable.

In the playing, some obvious defects have been discovered, and less obvious failings noted.

I am planning on pausing Erflia for a few days after the end of turn 13, converting units to their nearest equivalent in the new system, and forging on from there.

I encourage all Erflia players to have a look at the rules document. Indeed, I encourage all Erf-gamers to have a look and make constructive responses.

Once I am happy with the rules, and there being no super serious objections, I propose to go on with Erflia using version X.1

Thanks


Final version: X.1
Rules Document
Last edited by LTDave on Fri May 09, 2014 8:55 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby GWvsJohn » Mon May 05, 2014 7:51 am

Now that the details of combat are laid bare. I have a question. How do mixed stacks work in combat?
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby BrimStone » Mon May 05, 2014 10:19 am

A quick Question:

Can units take a special that pushes their defense value past 6? (Heavy, Healer, Frightening)
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby HerbieRai » Mon May 05, 2014 11:12 am

Can burrowers and fliers choose not to attack through the secondary zone and attack on ground anyway? If thats possible you may want to make walls cheaper since they'd be nessicary for any defenses.

Earthshaker is overcosted, since for one less point you can get the same bonus with Dance Fighting with less restriction.

Does sonic breath still have siege?

Should Casters, Heirs, and Rulers have the rider special? I think they should due to their combat abilities.

Are burrowed units stealthed? If so then the Stealth special is overcosted (or burrow is undercosted).

Not sure if your looking for additions, but some other building ideas:
Garrison House - allows more units to be garrisoned in the city
Larder - Provides X upkeep for garrison units (may be hard to keep track for a GM).
factory - Produces X smuckers/ turn. (would want this to be low.)
Last edited by HerbieRai on Mon May 05, 2014 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby CroverusRaven » Mon May 05, 2014 11:14 am

Can I reset my Rolfie then? Cause I can make him the way I'd like with these new rules for unit creation and it hasn't popped yet.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby SeraphRedux » Mon May 05, 2014 12:22 pm

Minor question, what if any specials can you take more than once? Speed boost comes to mind, is that a special you can only take once now?
(Also is Dance Fighting units with leadership still granted to the units they fight with?)

Also, I think he removed the Rider special entirely along with the need for it.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby GWvsJohn » Mon May 05, 2014 1:02 pm

HerbieRai wrote:Can burrowers and fliers choose not to attack through the secondary zone and attack on ground anyway? If thats possible you may want to make walls cheaper since they'd be nessicary for any defenses.

Earthshaker is overcosted, since for one less point you can get the same bonus with Dance Fighting with less restriction.

Does sonic breath still have siege?

Should Casters, Heirs, and Rulers have the rider special? I think they should due to their combat abilities.

Are burrowed units stealthed? If so then the Stealth special is overcosted (or burrow is undercosted).

Not sure if your looking for additions, but some other building ideas:
Garrison House - allows more units to be garrisoned in the city
Larder - Provides X upkeep for garrison units (may be hard to keep track for a GM).
factory - Produces X smuckers/ turn. (would want this to be low.)


I agree about walls. Strong walls seem to be a staple of strong cities. Maybe make walls 1 building/level regardless of level
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby HerbieRai » Mon May 05, 2014 1:21 pm

SeraphRedux wrote:Minor question, what if any specials can you take more than once? Speed boost comes to mind, is that a special you can only take once now?
(Also is Dance Fighting units with leadership still granted to the units they fight with?)

Also, I think he removed the Rider special entirely along with the need for it.


He took away the possibility for units to have leadership, so they can't grant dancefighting. Just noticed the removal of rider, so my question about characters is withdrawn.

But don't fear, I have some More!

Can Sour Spit be used on a unit more than once per turn (example, 3 units with sour spit against 1 unit, can they take down the defense by 6?). If so I think this may become the special to have. Even if you can't it can still be a good one since it is effectivly a multiplyer, not an addition like other specials.

Do all units start at 1/1/1/1, or do you have to use your first 4 custom points on those stats?
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby SeraphRedux » Mon May 05, 2014 1:30 pm

HerbieRai wrote:
SeraphRedux wrote:Minor question, what if any specials can you take more than once? Speed boost comes to mind, is that a special you can only take once now?
(Also is Dance Fighting units with leadership still granted to the units they fight with?)

He took away the possibility for units to have leadership, so they can't grant dancefighting. Just noticed the removal of rider, so my question about characters is withdrawn.


I'm assuming it's still possible for Warlords to Pop knowing Dancefighting, or for Rhymeomancers to grant dancefighting to their stack. Though I'm suddenly unsure about this.




HerbieRai wrote:Do all units start at 1/1/1/1, or do you have to use your first 4 custom points on those stats?


I'm assuming that your units all start with 1/1/1/6, because those are the minimums, and because he said Defense to 6 takes 20 points, but 1+2+3+4+5+6=21. Meaning he either messed up math, or you get the 'necessary' stats for free.

(Also, sorry about all the questions, I imagine this is swamping you, but a unit starting with heavy in it's design doesn't naturally have +50% upkeep, only if you manually buy it, right? I know some other Sides have Heavy units on-buy, and I'm wondering if their upkeep'll be modified)


(I have the angels and wolves converted so far more or less, though some questions such as the base stats being added or not are still necessary to be sure)
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby Deo » Mon May 05, 2014 2:22 pm

LTDave wrote:
I am planning on pausing Erflia for a few days after the end of turn 13, converting units to their nearest equivalent in the new system, and forging on from there.




I assume we should try to make our redesigned units similar to the old versions correct?

Or are you going to do the redesigning yourself?

I know I have one unit that is now invalidated as it was Home-guard and that special no longer exists.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby SeraphRedux » Mon May 05, 2014 2:27 pm

Deo wrote:
LTDave wrote:
I am planning on pausing Erflia for a few days after the end of turn 13, converting units to their nearest equivalent in the new system, and forging on from there.




I assume we should try to make our redesigned units similar to the old versions correct?

Or are you going to do the redesigning yourself?



I think us doing the conversion would save Dave a lot of work, given he'd have to go through all the sides of ours and change them over when we could just do that for him. He certainly could, though. I know some of our stuff is invalid as well (such as leadership), and we already have conversions made for the wolves, angels, and wams so I could look how the system functioned (assuming no base stats, and assuming dave lets us save him the trouble).

(And the infantry now too, geez those guys got some free points, to be fair infantry drastically needed a buff so it's fine)
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby Deo » Mon May 05, 2014 3:25 pm

For anyone who does not want to do the math themselves, here is a table for figuring defense point costs up to the max of 6.

Cost to improve to next level

Defense 1 Total Cost: 0
Defense 2 Total Cost: 2
Defense 3 Total Cost: 5
Defense 4 Total Cost: 9
Defense 5 Total Cost: 14
Defense 6 Total Cost: 20


If anyone has a desire for it, I could put together an excel sheet to use for unit creation.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby Deo » Mon May 05, 2014 4:33 pm

Alright made a document to create units and then I converted it to google spreadsheets.


Erflia X.1 Unit Creation

The only cells you need to input data with are bordered. It will also use the correct cost of points for the defense value you input.


To use it, you need to download it to an appropriate spreadsheet program.

File > Download As (Spreadsheet Program).
Last edited by Deo on Mon May 05, 2014 9:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby Silversought » Mon May 05, 2014 5:03 pm

I don't think base stats have been figured in. Dave said "from 1 to 6" costs 20 points. If I'm wrong, then sweet bonus points. xD (Just finished converting Voyeran units with base 0/0/0/0)
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby Deo » Mon May 05, 2014 5:10 pm

Silversought wrote:I don't think base stats have been figured in. Dave said "from 1 to 6" costs 20 points. If I'm wrong, then sweet bonus points. xD (Just finished converting Voyeran units with base 0/0/0/0)


Base stats are 1/1/1/6, At least I assume they are as those are the minimums listed.

Though I do see what you mean. When answered I will adjust document.

-


Hmm, remade my stabbers and pikers then went to do my archers and realized there was not a remade unit type for them. Only two infantry types then it goes up to knights.

Was that forgotten or do we need to sacrifice one of our previous unit types to bring back our archers? In which case, what happens to the prior existing troops of the archers or the type sacrificed?

Every other unit type seemed like a straight transfer over but the loss of a unit type complicates that somewhat. Hrm
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby GJC » Mon May 05, 2014 5:32 pm

A question regarding Orders, and the limits on them.

The section on commands says:
"Each ruler has control over the units and cities of their side and may issue orders (commands) to them, regardless of the distance or the presence of character units. Each ruler may issue up to 4 commands per turn."


But the section on warlords says:
"... can independently plan and carry out campaigns or large scale battles"


Does this mean that commanding led units does not count against a side's command limit? If I have a stack of 10 pikers and a warlord in a hex, for example, and want to move them west?

Edit: Rereading the second on courtiers, it seems likely that led units do count against your command limit, but I'm gonna wait for clarification.

Edit 2: And a quick question regarding unit design, does the increased upkeep from heavy only apply if you buy it with smuckers, or also if you buy with with points during unit creation?
Last edited by GJC on Mon May 05, 2014 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby Deo » Mon May 05, 2014 5:45 pm

GJC wrote:Edit: Rereading the second on courtiers, it seems likely that led units do count against your command limit, but I'm gonna wait for clarification.



I assume that this is to provide some use to courtiers, and why they would exist in court, but not to provide as much benefit as a warlord would.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby BrimStone » Mon May 05, 2014 5:57 pm

I also had recreated units assuming they started with 0/0/0/0.

I also had assumed that a special can increase the units base defense value.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby GJC » Mon May 05, 2014 6:05 pm

BrimStone wrote:I also had recreated units assuming they started with 0/0/0/0.

I also had assumed that a special can increase the units base defense value.


I also went with the 0/0/0/0 base. I'd be surprised if Dave lets specials increase unit defense past 6, though. That seems like a reasonable hard cap.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby HerbieRai » Mon May 05, 2014 6:18 pm

Dave's going to have fun reading all the posts when he gets back online.

Reading through "ranged" I think it might be overcosted. You seem to have removed the combo of Ranged + Fly means ground melee troops cannot hurt you. If range only gives a free attack on defense it doesn't seem any stronger than flight or burrowing. The weakness to flying ranged units was the primary reason there was so much ranged.
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