Empires X.1 Rules Revision

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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby SeraphRedux » Wed May 07, 2014 6:48 pm

Deo wrote:I am actually ok with that as even though it is cheaper and could be slightly more effective, Packmind only gives you the equivalent +8 bonus if you stack with 16 units, which is normally handicapped by the effective end of bonuses you get with a 8 unit bonus. Packmind is actually ensuring that at 16 units it gets the same bonus per unit as the normal stack of 8 do.

Stacks get a bonus up to +8
Packmind stacks get a bonus to +16. But only if every unit is packmind and of the same type!!

This means no mixed stacks for packmind units unless you dont want it to be an equal bonus to Earthshaker and the others.

I think it makes sense for it to be 1 point cheaper and to have a +1 point advantage, as you lose the ability to have as effective mixed stacks and you need to actually have 16 units to achieve the +8.


I agree that this is about the correct size for the gap for Packmind's efficiency, and that packmind should have about a 2 point edge on the competition rather than a 1 point edge. I was just addressing the systemic issue of cost-efficiency.
Extreme conditionals > Moderate Conditionals > General Specials
Packmind > Earthshaker/Footbiter/Battlecrap > Dance Fighting/Extra Tough

Right now though it is...

Packmind > Extra Tough > Dance Fighting = Earthshaker/Footbiter/Battlecrap


Which is suitable enough, as the only 2 specials per side means that Earthshaker and Co help in that aspect, as well as flavor. This is definitely functional, just that putting the formula at...

Packmind > Earthshaker/Footbiter/Battlecrap = Extra Tough > Dance Fighting

Would also be acceptable, and possibly preferable.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby Deo » Wed May 07, 2014 6:52 pm

GWvsJohn wrote:Letting Warlords direct hits makes things easier, not harder. Side with warlord just makes a priority list of targets and Dave allocates the hits that way. It's easier than trying to to find a fair way to randomize them.


Just some standard rules. Target Siege, Target Archers, Target Beast Bs, I would say this could work by having a somewhat higher chance that confirmed hits will land on the targeted unit.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby Deo » Wed May 07, 2014 6:57 pm

SeraphRedux wrote:
Deo wrote:


I agree that this is about the correct size for the gap for Packmind's efficiency, and that packmind should have about a 2 point edge on the competition rather than a 1 point edge. I was just addressing the systemic issue of cost-efficiency.
Extreme conditionals > Moderate Conditionals > General Specials
Packmind > Earthshaker/Footbiter/Battlecrap > Dance Fighting/Extra Tough

Right now though it is...

Packmind > Extra Tough > Dance Fighting = Earthshaker/Footbiter/Battlecrap


Which is suitable enough, as the only 2 specials per side means that Earthshaker and Co help in that aspect, as well as flavor. This is definitely functional, just that putting the formula at...

Packmind > Earthshaker/Footbiter/Battlecrap = Extra Tough > Dance Fighting

Would also be acceptable, and possibly preferable.


Yeah. I was just saying I think at the moment it is at least mostly good as while it is cheaper and have a higher bonus it does have some fierce restrictions on it. It does not make it a must-have special by all means as you would lose possible points by using it with other units. Keep in mind that different unit types with packmind do not work together as they must be the same type. I would not say that packmind is greater then earthshaker/footbiter/battlecrap as those units would forever keep their bonuses without others of the same type. This means each unit keeps the exact same bonus even after casulties are figured, where as after a good battle the packmind stack bonus is likely to be substantially reduced.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby SeraphRedux » Wed May 07, 2014 7:02 pm

Deo wrote:Yeah. I was just saying I think at the moment it is at least mostly good as while it is cheaper and have a higher bonus it does have some fierce restrictions on it. It does not make it a must-have special by all means as you would lose possible points by using it with other units. Keep in mind that different unit types with packmind do not work together as they must be the same type. I would not say that packmind is greater then earthshaker/footbiter/battlecrap as those units would forever keep their bonuses without others of the same type. This means each unit keeps the exact same bonus even after casulties are figured, where as after a good battle the packmind stack bonus is likely to be substantially reduced.



My grid wasn't listing 'this special is strictly superior to that special'. My grid was listing 'Assuming optimal use, what benefits derived are superior'?

Though yes, it is another downside of packmind that after a battle, calculation for the next battle will be lower unless you can stack it back up to 16.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby LTDave » Thu May 08, 2014 6:37 am

Ok, cool.

I don't think we'll ever reach complete satisfaction on all these things, but I think we are in the neighbourhood of "hey, that was great."

I'm going to post a link to the latest (and potentially final) version of X.1. Have a look through it - if there is anything that you really hate or think is totally broken let me know, otherwise I'm going to call it 'done-ish'.

With chief creative consultant Werebiscuit back on the forum there might be some more input from the Hee-lands.

Rules Doc
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby GJC » Thu May 08, 2014 10:27 am

Only minor issue I have is that you have "sour spit" working "for the rest of the turn". This both seems kinda powerful (the breath version of it only lasts for a phase, though it's easier to apply), and seems to violate the braindead-GM guidelines, as you'd need to keep track of how many times each unit took a hit from the spit.

I feel like having sour spit last for a battle would make things easier.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby LTDave » Thu May 08, 2014 4:04 pm

Okay, I'm changing that to:

Sour Spit (4) – One target unit suffers -2 to defence for the rest of the battle.


12 hours before I set the rules in stone. Stone, I say!
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby SeraphRedux » Thu May 08, 2014 6:27 pm

Hm, as a side thing I was wondering, should Mount and/or Burrow be part of specials that can be Common? Aka not exclusive to 2 per side? Mount because you can either be a mount or on one, but not both, and lots of sides could have lots of animals and few riders. Burrow because Flying isn't limited to 2 per side, so I'm not sure on the logic why burrow is limited and flying isn't.


Oh yeah, also, you said you liked the idea but never put it in the pdf. You never mentioned it again in thread so I'm curious about it. Did you change your mind, or just forget to shift it into the pdf?

LTDave wrote:I like the idea of Bomb, but I think it should be:

Bomb (3) - If the battle is lost, all units with bomb explode, inflicting 2 hits each.

So it's less thinking on my part, and you don't really want bombs exploding to kill any prisoners.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby Deo » Thu May 08, 2014 9:24 pm

SeraphRedux wrote:Hm, as a side thing I was wondering, should Mount and/or Burrow be part of specials that can be Common? Aka not exclusive to 2 per side? Mount because you can either be a mount or on one, but not both, and lots of sides could have lots of animals and few riders. Burrow because Flying isn't limited to 2 per side, so I'm not sure on the logic why burrow is limited and flying isn't.



Burrowing units also get a free attack against enemy units entering a hex. Burrowing units also seem to be rarer then flying units in the comics so having it exclusive may help simulate that.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby SeraphRedux » Thu May 08, 2014 10:06 pm

Deo wrote:
SeraphRedux wrote:Hm, as a side thing I was wondering, should Mount and/or Burrow be part of specials that can be Common? Aka not exclusive to 2 per side? Mount because you can either be a mount or on one, but not both, and lots of sides could have lots of animals and few riders. Burrow because Flying isn't limited to 2 per side, so I'm not sure on the logic why burrow is limited and flying isn't.



Burrowing units also get a free attack against enemy units entering a hex. Burrowing units also seem to be rarer then flying units in the comics so having it exclusive may help simulate that.



That's a good point, I'll retract that on the point of Burrowing, then.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby LTDave » Fri May 09, 2014 7:34 am

Ok, I'm calling it there.

I've moved mount from Simple - Exclusive to Simple - Common.

I've added a sentence to structures explaining that each level of defences takes up one spot.

I've changed the wording of scouting to make it comply with what I already said I was going to change.

I think that's it.

Here's the link:
Rules Document

I will add it to the first post of this thread, and to the game thread first and current pages.

Thanks everyone for the work. I'm very happy with X.1

Cheers!

LT
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby BrimStone » Fri May 09, 2014 10:51 am

YAY for new rules! I am very happy with the redesign of my units.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby Deo » Fri May 09, 2014 9:44 pm

Does it cost a command to attempt a special character popping or to promote units?

All it says for promoting is that the unit needs to be in the same hex as the Ruler, Heir, or Chief Warlord.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby LTDave » Sat May 10, 2014 8:09 am

Deo wrote:Does it cost a command to attempt a special character popping or to promote units?

All it says for promoting is that the unit needs to be in the same hex as the Ruler, Heir, or Chief Warlord.



To do it in your turn, yes, it does.

But remember, a Command is to the hex. One command can do lots of things in the same hex - move units, pop units, promote units, attempt to pop a character (in the capital hex only).

In the off turn, it does not cost a Command, but I will only give you the option to do so if that hex is being attacked.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby tigerusthegreat » Sat May 10, 2014 8:34 am

Top of page 6 there is a partial sentence:

A city-site requires a Character to be present at the start of the turn to



Might I recommend a change to courtiers to add in some sort of maintenance or building cost reduction? We've seen that Parson, walking through the city, was able to improve production/decrease maintenance costs.

I'm going to throw together a unit builder for my own uses. If i am happy with the results I'll post the program. I'm sure there are "exploitable" combinations.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby CroverusRaven » Thu May 22, 2014 9:22 am

Gonna try and redo the stats for all my units today, with Fozzie as Unit A, Gonzo as Unit B, Rolf as Unit C, and Ms Piggy as Unit D. So I'll try and get on that by tonight.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby Deo » Thu May 22, 2014 11:03 am

Deo wrote:Updated Creation document.

Erflia X.1 Unit Creation


Remember to File > Download As... to your computer so you can use it.



This might help.
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Empires X.2 Rules Revision

Postby LTDave » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:03 pm

I'm looking for suggestions for the Magic Kingdom.

Those with portals and casters know that there are two locations to visit: the Labour Exchange and the Hall of Memes.

I'd like some ideas for other places for X.2 (the rules for the next game - draft title is "The Wars of Erfstian Succession").
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby Silversought » Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:10 pm

Hm. I'm tempted to suggest a knock off of the Carnevale, but I'm short on clever ideas. I'll ponder it.
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Re: Empires X.1 Rules Revision

Postby SeraphRedux » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:42 pm

Buy dollamancy weapons and siege? Toy factory sounds nice, really.
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