Digdoug - Episode 20

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Re: Digdoug - Episode 20

Postby ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ » Mon May 19, 2014 5:15 pm

Lilwik wrote:
ManaCaster wrote:He's fighting whatever weird thingy Sylvia got entangled with that is merely very similar to Fate. That better? We've got plenty of evidence for that much at least.
Can anyone remember where we've seen some of that evidence? I'm very curious to know more details about this. I thought the thing that Sylvia got entangled with was Carnymancy.

.



And Charlie may have used the same trick on himself. Sylvia was saved (by Carnymancy) from a burning city but was fated to die in a burning city at some point in the future, Charlie was saved from being killed by a hippymancer's stategies and may now be fated to die at the hand of an other hippymancer's strategies...
3 Naughtymancers of different disciplines walk into a bar... wait, forget what I just said. A shockmancer and a croakamancer walk into a bar.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 20

Postby ManaCaster » Mon May 19, 2014 5:17 pm

Lilwik wrote:
ManaCaster wrote:He's fighting whatever weird thingy Sylvia got entangled with that is merely very similar to Fate. That better? We've got plenty of evidence for that much at least.
Can anyone remember where we've seen some of that evidence? I'm very curious to know more details about this. I thought the thing that Sylvia got entangled with was Carnymancy.

Ok, so he's fighting the really complicated side effects of Carnymancy, which is totally not Fate magic. Whatever. Fact remains that Sylvia burned up 3 times and experienced suspiciously auspicious Luckamancy whenever it looked like she was about to croak by other means. Since Charlie underwent a similar process (surviving poison via Carnymancy at a terrible price), we can assume that he also has really bad Luckamancy where poison is concerned and is thus avoiding poison at all costs.

Lilwik wrote:
ManaCaster wrote:Dove was definitely hiding stuff, but I am reasonably confident she was being truthful about Carnymancy altering the rules. It fits with what we've seen.
What do you mean, specifically? As far as I remember, these are all we've seen of Carnymancy:
  • Sylvia being saved from croaking while incapacitated in Unaroyal (B2P86)
  • The arrow deflected from Sylvia (B2T51)
  • The arrows shattering against Posbrake (Episode 18)
  • The scroll that Parson tried to use (B2T59)
  • Charlie saving himself from poisoning (B0E68)
All of that could be a matter of breaking rules, but you can do anything by breaking rules. Break enough rules and raisins will turn into dancing unicorns. I just don't see anything in any of that which suggests breaking rules. I see quite a bit of healing and protective magic, and we can even include Parson's scroll if we called Carnymancy the magic of restoring people to their natural states. I'm not saying that is what Carnymancy is (I suspect it's just a coincidence) but it fits what we've seen far closer than breaking rules, and I don't trust Dove to be honest about what Carnymancy can do.

True, "breaking the rules" is a bit difficult to define. But other stuff seems to be more concerned with adding or subtracting numbers within a set of rules. Carnymancy seems to alter the means by which those numbers are changed, or the effects that changing those numbers has.

For example, the rules of Shockamancy say that you can subtract hits from an enemy unit whenever they get hit by a bolt. Carnymancy doesn't add or subtract hits, but simply says that Shockamancy is n/a where this unit is concerned, and thus it can't add or subtract in the first place.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 20

Postby Lipkin » Mon May 19, 2014 5:23 pm

╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:
Lilwik wrote:
ManaCaster wrote:He's fighting whatever weird thingy Sylvia got entangled with that is merely very similar to Fate. That better? We've got plenty of evidence for that much at least.
Can anyone remember where we've seen some of that evidence? I'm very curious to know more details about this. I thought the thing that Sylvia got entangled with was Carnymancy.

.



And Charlie may have used the same trick on himself. Sylvia was saved (by Carnymancy) from a burning city but was fated to die in a burning city at some point in the future, Charlie was saved from being killed by a hippymancer's stategies and may now be fated to die at the hand of an other hippymancer's strategies...

I still keep coming back to Judy saying she was "supposed" to kill Charlie. She then said she was being punished. The obvious thought would be that Olive was punishing her, but another way to look at it would be Wanda's easy way/hard way point of view with fate. If Judy was fated to kill Charlie, but didn't, she might see the following events as her punishment for denying fate.

Then Parson, the newest summoned perfect warlord arrives on the scene, also backed by a powerful Hippymancer. So Charlie tries to return Parson home like Judy did. It work once before!
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 20

Postby Lilwik » Mon May 19, 2014 5:41 pm

ManaCaster wrote:Ok, so he's fighting the really complicated side effects of Carnymancy, which is totally not Fate magic.
Why would Charlie call that the only enemy worth fighting? If we're guessing right about how Carnymancy works, that would still only make it Charlie's enemy. Is Charlie so self-centered that he thinks that his enemy is the only enemy worth fighting?

ManaCaster wrote:Fact remains that Sylvia burned up 3 times and experienced suspiciously auspicious Luckamancy whenever it looked like she was about to croak by other means.
She also had quite a lot of luck in surviving the second time she burned up, so it's not just luckily avoiding death by other means. Sylvia had survived fire so many times that she felt confident that fire would never kill her. I don't know what that means. And what does any of this have to do with everything being a show? Carnymancy is still Erfworld's most mysterious magic. All I know is that I would love to know more about Carnymancy before I try to guess what was going on with Sylvia.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 20

Postby ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ » Mon May 19, 2014 5:42 pm

Lipkin wrote:Then Parson, the newest summoned perfect warlord arrives on the scene, also backed by a powerful Hippymancer. So Charlie tries to return Parson home like Judy did. It work once before!



Parson IS a hippymancer himself if we are to beleive the grand Abbie.
3 Naughtymancers of different disciplines walk into a bar... wait, forget what I just said. A shockmancer and a croakamancer walk into a bar.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 20

Postby ManaCaster » Mon May 19, 2014 6:11 pm

Lilwik wrote:
ManaCaster wrote:Ok, so he's fighting the really complicated side effects of Carnymancy, which is totally not Fate magic.
Why would Charlie call that the only enemy worth fighting? If we're guessing right about how Carnymancy works, that would still only make it Charlie's enemy. Is Charlie so self-centered that he thinks that his enemy is the only enemy worth fighting?

How is this supposed to counter the idea that Charlie surviving poison had a side effect that threatens his life?

As to why it would be the only enemy worth fighting, let's say you were in Charlie's position minus the Carnymancy curse. He's more creative than any Erfworlder and has access to a powerful Arkentool. There's no challenge. It's kind of like playing a Real Time Strategy game with all the cheat codes turned on. He could wage war against other sides and conquer the world, but what's the point?

And why should it matter if his Carnymancy curse is only his enemy anyways?

Lilwik wrote:
ManaCaster wrote:Fact remains that Sylvia burned up 3 times and experienced suspiciously auspicious Luckamancy whenever it looked like she was about to croak by other means.
She also had quite a lot of luck in surviving the second time she burned up, so it's not just luckily avoiding death by other means. Sylvia had survived fire so many times that she felt confident that fire would never kill her. I don't know what that means. And what does any of this have to do with everything being a show? Carnymancy is still Erfworld's most mysterious magic. All I know is that I would love to know more about Carnymancy before I try to guess what was going on with Sylvia.

The world and story themselves are a show that Carnymancy is manipulating, though I am unclear on what this has to do with the topic at hand. It feels like you're grasping at straws now.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 20

Postby Lilwik » Mon May 19, 2014 7:19 pm

ManaCaster wrote:How is this supposed to counter the idea that Charlie surviving poison had a side effect that threatens his life?
All I know about Charlie surviving the poisoning is that he did it with Carnymancy and paid a terrible price. If I ever say anything that sounds like I know more than that, such as saying that it's not threatening his life, or it is threatening his life, consider it just wild speculation.

ManaCaster wrote:As to why it would be the only enemy worth fighting, let's say you were in Charlie's position minus the Carnymancy curse. He's more creative than any Erfworlder and has access to a powerful Arkentool. There's no challenge. It's kind of like playing a Real Time Strategy game with all the cheat codes turned on. He could wage war against other sides and conquer the world, but what's the point?
I see what you mean. He might have meant that it was the only enemy worthy of his skills, but I have a hard time believing that based on the way he says it. In B0E81, he's talking to Betsy and saying it as if it's also the only enemy worth fighting for her. Why would he say, "the only one worth fighting," instead of, "the only one worthy of me," if that was what he actually meant? It sounds to me like he means it is the only enemy worth fighting for anyone, some terrible mysterious threat to all of Erfworld that would destroy Betsy if she discovered it.

ManaCaster wrote:And why should it matter if his Carnymancy curse is only his enemy anyways?
It would matter because it would be very strange for Charlie to tell Betsy that his curse is the only enemy that she should fight. Also, what was Charlie's curse doing in Jillian's head? Even if he didn't mean his curse specifically but rather Carnymancy curses in general, there's been no other indication that either Jillian or Betsy had ever been exposed to Carnymancy. So if Charlie really was talking about Carnymancy curses, then it's our only evidence pointing to the truth that Jillian had been cursed by a Carnymancer at some point and the jester was a symptom of the curse. That seems pretty important.

ManaCaster wrote:The world and story themselves are a show that Carnymancy is manipulating, though I am unclear on what this has to do with the topic at hand. It feels like you're grasping at straws now.
I am grasping at straws. Unfortunately in the area of Carnymancy straws are all any of us have to grasp at. Carnymancy is so mysterious because there is so little evidence and even Carnymancers are unreliable sources. How can we ever learn about Carnymancy when the only Carnymancers we've met seem more interested in manipulating people and keeping secrets than in clearly explaining Carnymancy?
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 20

Postby ManaCaster » Mon May 19, 2014 7:53 pm

Lilwik wrote:It would matter because it would be very strange for Charlie to tell Betsy that his curse is the only enemy that she should fight.

He didn't specifically say it's her enemy. Just that it is the only one worth fighting. He may well have only been referring to his own perspective. "Pray you never find out" could well mean pray you never end up in the same situation.

Lilwik wrote:Also, what was Charlie's curse doing in Jillian's head? Even if he didn't mean his curse specifically but rather Carnymancy curses in general, there's been no other indication that either Jillian or Betsy had ever been exposed to Carnymancy.

That would require me to start calling the Carnymancy curse Fate again, which I know you don't like, but that still works. Carnymancy is supposed to be Fate magic after all. If it's Fate he's fighting, then that basically means that he is opposing the very spirit of the world itself. In which case, the thingy in Jillian's head would presumably be her own connection to the world spirit, and by extension be a tool by which the curse can manifest itself.

Lilwik wrote:...

So overall, you feel we shouldn't speculate on Carnymancy because it is the most subtle and deceptive of all disciplines. That's fine. You don't have to participate.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 20

Postby ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ » Mon May 19, 2014 8:16 pm

Wasn't the jester the avatar of free will? I could see a fate caster saying it's the only enemy worth fighting as the story oppose free will and fate on a regular basis.

Also as soon as the jester is destroyed, Jillian "lack the will to do anything else"
3 Naughtymancers of different disciplines walk into a bar... wait, forget what I just said. A shockmancer and a croakamancer walk into a bar.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 20

Postby Beeskee » Mon May 19, 2014 8:19 pm

There's some major differences between Sizemore and Digdoug. Sizemore had his upkeep paid by a side, and only visited the magic kingdom occasionally. Doug is now stuck there, and must pay his upkeep with rands or shmuckers.

There were few or no other dirtamancers also during Sizemore's time. Dirtamancers were described as rare, and that dirtamancy jobs were always posted, more work than he could do.

For all we know the jobs board looked something like this during Sizemore's time:

Day 1: "Fix a wellhead: 1 rand", "Repair some farm fields: 5 rands", "Misc dirtamancy work: 3 rands"
Day 2: "Fix a wellhead: 2 rands, we're really kinda thirsty", "Repair some farm fields: 10 rands, we'd like to eat", "Misc dirtamancy work: 5 rands"
Day 3: "We're about to croak of thirst: 5 rands to fix this well", "Please come repair our fields: 15 rands", "I 'misc' pooping inside: 10 rands to fix my toilet"
Day 4: "Soo thirsty: 10 rands to fix a damn well", "OMBT (Oh my booping titans) we're freaking starving, 20 rands", "Please? Anyone? 15 rands. Simple plumbing work"

Sizemore: "Hey guys how's it hanging?"
Everyone: "Oh thank the titans it's Sizemore!"

Obviously the above is pure speculation, but we should keep in mind that Doug may very well not end up as "a filthy rich rockstar" without Dove cheating him in any way. He has to pay his own upkeep in Rands, (edit: or shmuckers ofc) every turn.
Last edited by Beeskee on Mon May 19, 2014 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 20

Postby Lilwik » Mon May 19, 2014 8:20 pm

ManaCaster wrote:"Pray you never find out" could well mean pray you never end up in the same situation.
That seems very plausible. Looking at it that way, it really is possible that Charlie isn't talking about some terrible secret enemy of all of Erfworld.

ManaCaster wrote:So overall, you feel we shouldn't speculate on Carnymancy because it is the most subtle and deceptive of all disciplines.
No, that's the opposite of what I feel. I want more speculation. The trick to good speculation is being aware of the strength of the evidence on which it is based and not confusing the speculation with facts that are supported by plenty of evidence. I think we can figure out the truth of Carnymancy using just the clues that Rob Balder has given us if someone comes up with an idea that ties together all that we've seen into one simple explanation. What Rob Balder can invent, some fan can figure out. I just want it to be ultimately supported by citations so everyone stays aware of just how strongly or weakly supported it is.

╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:Wasn't the jester the avatar of free will?
It was very bossy for an avatar of free will.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 20

Postby ManaCaster » Mon May 19, 2014 8:28 pm

╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:Wasn't the jester the avatar of free will? I could see a fate caster saying it's the only enemy worth fighting as the story oppose free will and fate on a regular basis.

Also as soon as the jester is destroyed, Jillian "lack the will to do anything else"

Here is everything we know for sure:

* Jack thinks it's what urges her to action. Notice how IPTSF Jillian has a strong will. Present Jillian is this annoying, broken, wishy washy thing.
* It is Signamancy for how she sees her father. Wanda says that Heroine buds make you see other people in a symbolic version of how you perceive them. And that is how she sees King Banhammer while under their influence.
* It is Jillian's Signamancy for the very idea of a warlord. A fighter.
* Charlie says it's a tool of the only enemy worth fighting.

How is it a tool of Charlie's enemy? We can only speculate, but my theory is that the Jester was Jillian's fighting spirit and her connection to the will of the world itself.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 20

Postby ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ » Mon May 19, 2014 8:49 pm

ManaCaster wrote:
╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ wrote:Wasn't the jester the avatar of free will? I could see a fate caster saying it's the only enemy worth fighting as the story oppose free will and fate on a regular basis.

Also as soon as the jester is destroyed, Jillian "lack the will to do anything else"

Here is everything we know for sure:

* Jack thinks it's what urges her to action. Notice how IPTSF Jillian has a strong will. Present Jillian is this annoying, broken, wishy washy thing.
* It is Signamancy for how she sees her father. Wanda says that Heroine buds make you see other people in a symbolic version of how you perceive them. And that is how she sees King Banhammer while under their influence.
* It is Jillian's Signamancy for the very idea of a warlord. A fighter.
* Charlie says it's a tool of the only enemy worth fighting.

How is it a tool of Charlie's enemy? We can only speculate, but my theory is that the Jester was Jillian's fighting spirit and her connection to the will of the world itself.


It is stange that she use the same signamancy for her father and for the concept of a warrior. Also, thanks for the summary.
3 Naughtymancers of different disciplines walk into a bar... wait, forget what I just said. A shockmancer and a croakamancer walk into a bar.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 20

Postby Beeskee » Mon May 19, 2014 9:02 pm

(Getting all the random ideas out of my head lol)


I was thinking that the jobs Dove is having Doug do may not be paying jobs, or may be paid for by her.

For the broken well, it's the closest one to Dove's vardo, but she and the others affected by the water outage aren't dying of thirst. They just walk to the next-closest well when they want a drink. So it's not essential, and there's no great reward for fixing it. She might be the only one willing to pay. Presumably not even then since it was broken until now. It might not even be worth a full rand to fix, Doug didn't have the skill to do just the spring alone or the job would have cost almost no juice whatsoever. So we may see Doug doing a lot of odd jobs for little to no reward. The real indicator will be his juice, I think.

For the economy, The Magic Kingdom is more like a bunch of independently owned campgrounds than a kingdom with a centralized authority. If your well breaks, you have to pay to get it fixed. No one compensates you. Unless you happen to have a friend who owes you a favor and can get it fixed for free, you're paying out of your own pocket.

So if this were a job Dove was posting on the board she might offer 1 rand, or get the neighbors to all chip in for a larger reward. But the job may go unfinished. It's a well which is not particularly needed, carnymancers seem like they're broke all the time, and dirtamancers are rare in the MK and have a lot of demands on their time. It's also in the middle of Carnymancer territory. Who feels comfortable there except other carnymaners? "Should I go repair a well in McScamsville and maybe lose my shirt, or go repair the hippymancer's hemp fields for the tons of money they're offering?" :D

Now Dove has a dirtamancer who owes her a favor. She can get a lot of repair work done this way. But at the end of the day she's still down x Rands for the heal + upkeep, and Doug needs another rand so he doesn't go pop tomorrow morning, and Dove herself needs another rand for her own upkeep for the coming day. So we may see Doug do a lot of little jobs for Dove and still owe her.

(edit: Dove may need to pay some form of rent also for her space in the carny campground. And I didn't see any mention of food popping for Doug at start of turn, they may need rands for food also)
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 20

Postby wreeee » Tue May 20, 2014 12:37 am

Lilwik wrote:
ManaCaster wrote:He's fighting whatever weird thingy Sylvia got entangled with that is merely very similar to Fate. That better? We've got plenty of evidence for that much at least.
Can anyone remember where we've seen some of that evidence? I'm very curious to know more details about this. I thought the thing that Sylvia got entangled with was Carnymancy.

ManaCaster wrote:Dove was definitely hiding stuff, but I am reasonably confident she was being truthful about Carnymancy altering the rules. It fits with what we've seen.
What do you mean, specifically? As far as I remember, these are all we've seen of Carnymancy:
  • Sylvia being saved from croaking while incapacitated in Unaroyal (B2P86)
  • The arrow deflected from Sylvia (B2T51)
  • The arrows shattering against Posbrake (Episode 18)
  • The scroll that Parson tried to use (B2T59)
  • Charlie saving himself from poisoning (B0E68)
All of that could be a matter of breaking rules, but you can do anything by breaking rules. Break enough rules and raisins will turn into dancing unicorns. I just don't see anything in any of that which suggests breaking rules. I see quite a bit of healing and protective magic, and we can even include Parson's scroll if we called Carnymancy the magic of restoring people to their natural states. I'm not saying that is what Carnymancy is (I suspect it's just a coincidence) but it fits what we've seen far closer than breaking rules, and I don't trust Dove to be honest about what Carnymancy can do.

Actually, I've noticed one curious thing about those examples. Twice a "trade" was mentioned. And I think we can be reasonably sure that was no trade with some ordinary caster. So, who were they trading with? Fate? Titans? Even leaving the "break the rules" part aside, that is certainly another ability of Carnymancy — making a trade with higher powers.
I hope we will learn someday what prices were paid, but even if we don't — I think it won't be much of an assumption that Carnymancers are, in fact, closer connected to the Fate than any other casters, bar Predictomancers, perhaps. And in that light all their talk about "avoiding the Fate" and "free will" is, in fact, yet another of their shows.
And then, Parson, who is really fighting the Fate, and, probably, will break it, is said to be Fated to kill Charlie? Well, Charlie probably knows that Parson is not amused with the Fate concept. And he is a Carnymancer. If he really was all about fighting Fate, and he really could cheat it, why would he then provoke Parson like that, instead of seeking a more friendly approach? I think that the trade that he made for his life was that exactly — to become a tool of Fate, to fight the greatest threat to Fate when it arrives to the Erfworld.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 20

Postby ManaCaster » Tue May 20, 2014 12:59 am

wreeee wrote:And then, Parson, who is really fighting the Fate, and, probably, will break it, is said to be Fated to kill Charlie? Well, Charlie probably knows that Parson is not amused with the Fate concept. And he is a Carnymancer. If he really was all about fighting Fate, and he really could cheat it, why would he then provoke Parson like that, instead of seeking a more friendly approach?

Even if Parson and Charlie became the bestest of friends, the fact would remain that Parson is like a catalyst. Just by being in Erfworld, he gives Fate new options.

Yes, Charlie could have tried begging Parson to help him find a way to break Fate, but he probably doesn't like the idea of entrusting his Fate to the guy Fated to croak him.

wreeee wrote:I think that the trade that he made for his life was that exactly — to become a tool of Fate, to fight the greatest threat to Fate when it arrives to the Erfworld.

Then why would Fate summon Parson in the first place? Remember that this was set into motion by the Predictamancers, the closest servants of Fate.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 20

Postby ManaCaster » Tue May 20, 2014 1:23 am

As far as what the trades are, my theory is that it basically revolves around karmic balance. A Fate "debt" was mentioned in the case of Wanda, who had to pay it off by working for Haffaton.

When Charlie used Fate magic to survive poisoning, this probably created a path of least resistance towards getting him to croak of poison. Just about any action will probably impact the karmic balance, but Carnymancy is probably particularly disruptive.

As a less abstract example, let's take a Ponzi scheme. The con man suckers people into giving him money. He gives money from new suckers to the old suckers. The net amount of money remains the same, and thus the path of least resistance is for the scheme to collapse. The only alternatives are, figure out legitimate means of easing out the debt, or find an unlimited supply of suckers, neither of which is any mean feat.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 20

Postby Lilwik » Tue May 20, 2014 2:13 am

wreeee wrote:Actually, I've noticed one curious thing about those examples. Twice a "trade" was mentioned. And I think we can be reasonably sure that was no trade with some ordinary caster.
I certainly hope it wasn't a trade with another caster because that would really confuse the task of figuring out what was going on with Sylvia. I'm going to assume that her whole strange thing was all Carnymancy just because figuring out anything seems hopeless if we don't even know what disciplines were involved.

wreeee wrote:So, who were they trading with? Fate? Titans? Even leaving the "break the rules" part aside, that is certainly another ability of Carnymancy — making a trade with higher powers.
A trade can sometimes be just replacing one thing with another, or swapping two things. There doesn't need to be a higher power. For example, the way Luckamancers give good luck to some units by creating bad luck for other units could be considered a trade. I don't think we have any clues about what sort of trades Carnymancers make.

wreeee wrote:I hope we will learn someday what prices were paid, but even if we don't — I think it won't be much of an assumption that Carnymancers are, in fact, closer connected to the Fate than any other casters, bar Predictomancers, perhaps.
We've got a whole axis of Fate magic, and I think they are on that axis for a reason. Some of them may not seem to have much connection to Fate, but I suspect that is just because we don't properly understand how the Erfworld magic system works. I'm sure all will be revealed eventually.

wreeee wrote:And then, Parson, who is really fighting the Fate, and, probably, will break it, is said to be Fated to kill Charlie?
Where do we get the idea that Parson is fighting Fate? I don't think he's very fond of the idea that he's not in control of his own future, but other than that he seems to be doing exactly what is expected of him. Marie seems to be on his side and she knows what Fate has in store for Parson, so Parson can't be working contrary to Fate. If he were, Marie wouldn't be helping him.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 20

Postby Lipkin » Tue May 20, 2014 8:26 am

ManaCaster wrote:
wreeee wrote:I think that the trade that he made for his life was that exactly — to become a tool of Fate, to fight the greatest threat to Fate when it arrives to the Erfworld.

Then why would Fate summon Parson in the first place? Remember that this was set into motion by the Predictamancers, the closest servants of Fate.

The same reason Parson wanted the players in his game group to cheat. To win the game.
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Re: Digdoug - Episode 20

Postby ╒╦╧╬╩╦╦╛ » Tue May 20, 2014 1:13 pm

Lilwik wrote:
wreeee wrote:So, who were they trading with? Fate? Titans? Even leaving the "break the rules" part aside, that is certainly another ability of Carnymancy — making a trade with higher powers.
A trade can sometimes be just replacing one thing with another, or swapping two things. There doesn't need to be a higher power. For example, the way Luckamancers give good luck to some units by creating bad luck for other units could be considered a trade. I don't think we have any clues about what sort of trades Carnymancers make.




Maybe Carnies are playing shell game with fate. For example Jojo may just have displaced Sylvia's DIAF under a different shell, so it was still in the game waiting to be revealed later under an other circumstance (shell).
3 Naughtymancers of different disciplines walk into a bar... wait, forget what I just said. A shockmancer and a croakamancer walk into a bar.
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Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:54 pm
Location: Québec, Canada

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