159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

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Re: 159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

Postby R3u » Sun May 10, 2009 5:12 pm

Obvious to a non-erfworlder, sure -- but I can think of a lot of people on Gobwin Knob's side that have some remarkable talent at obliviousness as far as emotions are concerned. Most of their units so far seem to be either 1) captain oblivious, 2) emotionally stunted/damaged in some way, or 3) Sizemore.
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Re: 159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

Postby Goshen » Sun May 10, 2009 8:42 pm

Kreistor wrote:Parson failed to go home via the Portal. He didn't wake up from the coma. He has to be thinking this place is his new reality. And now he has to be realizing that he is hurting a lot of people. He's not immoral: he has a conscience. And now he can't treat it as a game anymore. And he's not allowed to stop. He's a gladiator now -- a slave forced to fight whether he wishes to or not. People will die at his hands.

QFT.

Also, Parson was pretty choked up about hearing Bogroll is irretrievable. He was probably hoping against hope that Bogroll's regeneration might have cause the twoll to grow back. It is interesting that Parson has been perfectly ruthless in his actions, but so sensitive to the people around him. Perhaps he has to have empathy to be such a good warlord. Needs it to understand his enemies and allies, both.
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Re: 159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

Postby Kreistor » Mon May 11, 2009 3:18 am

Goshen wrote:Also, Parson was pretty choked up about hearing Bogroll is irretrievable. He was probably hoping against hope that Bogroll's regeneration might have cause the twoll to grow back. It is interesting that Parson has been perfectly ruthless in his actions, but so sensitive to the people around him. Perhaps he has to have empathy to be such a good warlord. Needs it to understand his enemies and allies, both.


Well, I don't want to say that conscience is needed, but he does need to understand and agree with Sun Tzu. The most ideal form of warfare is bloodless victory. If a consience is necessary to achieve that, then yes, he needs one. I think a general understanding of the value of life is enough, though, rare as that is. Most that have no conscience have no morals, and are incapable of understanding this concept. But it's moot: Parson clearly has a conscience and a possibly a guilt complex.
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Re: 159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

Postby Pointyleaf » Mon May 11, 2009 6:35 am

Infidel wrote:I think you're reading too much into it. That looks like they are just emotional cues to show her surprise and consternation.


Have to agree with Ishn here; most of the decrypted units seem a bit bewildered and confused at first.
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Re: 159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

Postby Goshen » Mon May 11, 2009 10:28 am

Kreistor wrote:Well, I don't want to say that conscience is needed, but he does need to understand and agree with Sun Tzu. The most ideal form of warfare is bloodless victory. If a consience is necessary to achieve that, then yes, he needs one. I think a general understanding of the value of life is enough, though, rare as that is. Most that have no conscience have no morals, and are incapable of understanding this concept. But it's moot: Parson clearly has a conscience and a possibly a guilt complex.

Agree.

IMHO this is closely related to the "rules of war", a general set of conventions that culturally similar groups tend to follow even during very serious conflict. In the high middle ages of Europe, armies tended to face each other in ranks across an open field much more often than strictly military strategy would require. I surmise that this tended to minimize civilian casualties overall, and the peasants were essentially the economic prize. Also, at the height of its power the Church was able to outlaw war on Sundays, a rule that usually stuck.

Then along comes somebody like Parson, or Kublai Khan who doesn't play by the "rules"....
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Re: 159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

Postby The Old Hack » Mon May 11, 2009 12:16 pm

I personally am not expecting Stanley to disband Parson, nor Wanda to turn on him. In fact, I am anticipating Stanley acting at least a little more maturely than we have seen so far -- perhaps not much, but a little. All the major characters in the story have matured and changed, and I feel Stanley has changed, too. The fact that he showed uncertainty both before and after the confrontation at Faq alone seems to hint at this: before, he was brash, self-assured, always certain of what he was going to do. Showing doubt was new for him, and actually admitting uncertainty to Jack after the successful punchthrough even more so. I am having some trouble seeing the old Stanley from this page saying, "I have no idea what the Titans want me to do now, though. *sigh*" Let alone saying it to a minor subordinary he barely remembers the name of.

(One possible event that rather amuses me is Ansom telling Stanley, "Tool, you were right all the time. I see that now. Lord Hamster has shown me the truth!" and Stanley getting the impression that poor Parson is a convert, too. It would make Stanley overjoyed and Parson even more miserable.)

About the Decrypted units showing confusion: Ansom did so in his first moments, too. It only took him a very short while to get past it, though, and then he was his old self again... sort of. Possibly this goes for all the Decrypted.

And I am all in favour of Meat Wagons becoming a new unit for the delectation of Wanda. :twisted:
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Re: 159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

Postby BarGamer » Mon May 11, 2009 4:11 pm

Pointyleaf wrote:Have to agree with Ishn here; most of the decrypted units seem a bit bewildered and confused at first.


They've got 'summoning sickness.' XD
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Re: 159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

Postby blackcitadel9 » Mon May 11, 2009 9:37 pm

BarGamer wrote:
Pointyleaf wrote:Have to agree with Ishn here; most of the decrypted units seem a bit bewildered and confused at first.


They've got 'summoning sickness.' XD


I reckon it's because the first thing that flashes into their mind after Decryption is the memory of their own death.

Also. Is it just me, or do Wanda's eyes seem different to other Erfworlders? They seem almost human at times.
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Re: 159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

Postby konmanrocks » Mon May 11, 2009 9:58 pm

I reckon it's because the first thing that flashes into their mind after Decryption is the memory of their own death.

Also. Is it just me, or do Wanda's eyes seem different to other Erfworlders? They seem almost human at times.

maybe near the end, but at the beginning of the comic they look just like everyone else's...
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Re: 159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

Postby blackcitadel9 » Mon May 11, 2009 10:04 pm

konmanrocks wrote:maybe near the end, but at the beginning of the comic they look just like everyone else's...


I noticed they were the same at the beginning, but there was something very big and important missing from Erfworld at that time, perhaps there's more going on behind the scenes. Summoning spell backlash? Untold rules of equivalent trade? "When you take something from a world, you give something back?"
Who knows?
Tell me your greatest strength, so I will know how to undermine you; tell me your greatest fear, so I will know what to make you face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, that I might deny you.
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Re: 159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

Postby Native Jovian » Mon May 11, 2009 10:17 pm

blackcitadel9 wrote:Also. Is it just me, or do Wanda's eyes seem different to other Erfworlders? They seem almost human at times.

I did some quick checking through the most recent pages -- while most Erfworlders seem to have a solid circle of a single color for their eyes, Wanda has actual eye-shaped eyes with whites surrounding a circle of color (an iris with no pupil, it would seem). Parson also has this more realistic style of eye... as does Jillian. I haven't checked much more than the last few pages, but that seems like an interesting group of characters to share such a subtle but distinct similarity.
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Re: 159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

Postby blackcitadel9 » Mon May 11, 2009 10:44 pm

Native Jovian wrote:
blackcitadel9 wrote:Also. Is it just me, or do Wanda's eyes seem different to other Erfworlders? They seem almost human at times.

I did some quick checking through the most recent pages -- while most Erfworlders seem to have a solid circle of a single color for their eyes, Wanda has actual eye-shaped eyes with whites surrounding a circle of color (an iris with no pupil, it would seem). Parson also has this more realistic style of eye... as does Jillian. I haven't checked much more than the last few pages, but that seems like an interesting group of characters to share such a subtle but distinct similarity.


Hadn't noticed Jillian's eyes until this point, didn't count Parson as an Erfworlder (for obvious reasons), and in fact he was my comparison point for Wanda's eyes.

Still, it certainly is an intriguing thing. The fog of mystery only deepens.

***Warning: Baseless Jabbering***
I've figured out Parson Gotti's (a.k.a Protagonist) Special is. - He's the Main Character of Erfworld. That's it. Where he goes, Plot and Drama follow, hand in hand.
And He's always been the MC of Erfworld. As Wanda said "You didn't wish for this world Parson Gotti, It wished for you."
***End Baseless Jabbering***
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Re: 159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

Postby Lawence of Awabia » Tue May 12, 2009 1:35 pm

One of the the theories that was floated around on the OotS forums is that people from Faq have the normal, human-style eyes. Wanda, Jillian and Jack all have them. All 3 are from Faq, and we haven't seen "normal" eyes on anyone else, to date.

blackcitadel9 wrote:***Warning: Baseless Jabbering***
I've figured out Parson Gotti's (a.k.a Protagonist) Special is. - He's the Main Character of Erfworld. That's it. Where he goes, Plot and Drama follow, hand in hand.
And He's always been the MC of Erfworld. As Wanda said "You didn't wish for this world Parson Gotti, It wished for you."
***End Baseless Jabbering***


So he's an Erfworld native? Maybe his "real Life" gaming and working at Kinko's is the illusion, and Erfworld is the reality? Interesting...although it doesn't really explain why Parson can't see stats. I always figured that Parson's "special" is that the "rules" don't apply to him. He can go through the portal to the magic kingdom, he can (with effort) ignore Duty and Loyalty, he can probably not be disbanded. He defies classification, being from outside the world, and so he makes his own rules.
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Re: 159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

Postby atteSmythe » Tue May 12, 2009 3:52 pm

Lawence of Awabia wrote:One of the the theories that was floated around on the OotS forums is that people from Faq have the normal, human-style eyes. Wanda, Jillian and Jack all have them. All 3 are from Faq, and we haven't seen "normal" eyes on anyone else, to date.

Just started flipping through the archives to verify - Manpower also has 'normal' eyes, though we don't know where he's originally from.
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Re: 159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

Postby Drunut » Tue May 12, 2009 6:09 pm

Lawence of Awabia wrote:One of the the theories that was floated around on the OotS forums is that people from Faq have the normal, human-style eyes. Wanda, Jillian and Jack all have them. All 3 are from Faq, and we haven't seen "normal" eyes on anyone else, to date.

That wouldn't work. I just checked and the other people at Faq don't have human eyes. The emperor and the other soldiers don't at least.
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Re: 159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

Postby Native Jovian » Tue May 12, 2009 7:30 pm

atteSmythe wrote:Just started flipping through the archives to verify - Manpower also has 'normal' eyes, though we don't know where he's originally from.

Only while he's alive, though -- which is in precisely one page, and only the second page of the entire comic, so that may be a small blooper. "Main character eyes" may be accurate (we'll have to see what happens with Jack; everyone else can already be considered a main character), especially given that we've already seen that things look different without a main character around.
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Re: 159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

Postby kreszantas » Tue May 12, 2009 8:30 pm

All this eye business can also be classified as "Artist Prerogative" and dependant on style, mood, and other features of the story... all combining into one nice neat package.
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Re: 159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

Postby Lawence of Awabia » Tue May 12, 2009 9:30 pm

Drunut wrote:
Lawence of Awabia wrote:One of the the theories that was floated around on the OotS forums is that people from Faq have the normal, human-style eyes. Wanda, Jillian and Jack all have them. All 3 are from Faq, and we haven't seen "normal" eyes on anyone else, to date.

That wouldn't work. I just checked and the other people at Faq don't have human eyes. The emperor and the other soldiers don't at least.


I dunno...it's possible that all the Faq people on that page are just far away. Look at Jillian in the 5th panel...just dots for eyes, because she's on the far side of the table, and too far away to render the detail of her eyes. You see it with Parson, too...if he's far enough away his eyes appear to be dots. In all the shots on that page you linked to, the soldiers either have their eyes shut, squinched up in the midst of battle, or are far enough away that they're out-of-focus. The king's eyes are...kinda' normal. They have eyelids, at any rate, but again...it's a far-off shot from above, it's hard to make out the details.

You could very well be right. The suggestion that it's just Artist's Prerogative is maybe the most likely suggestion. But I don't think we'll have a clear-cut answer until we get a full-blown flashback to the Fall of Faq.
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Re: 159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

Postby Aquillion » Tue May 12, 2009 10:59 pm

Native Jovian wrote:especially given that we've already seen that things look different without a main character around.
That's a joke. It's a reference to another comic. (The 'title' in the upper-left is, too.)
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Re: 159 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 146

Postby moose o death » Wed May 13, 2009 2:24 am

time between updates is dragging on. we've run out of stuff to argue about. would i be right in the assumption that until the end of book one, updates are still by giantITP, and you guys add the extra page when you see it's up there?

can't wait for the final pages.
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