PbP Games?

[blackcitadel9]

Since the other thread asking about PbP games has turned into a discussion of Erfworld mechanics and how to turn it into a possible game, I thought I'd post another thread about PbP games. Anyone interested in running one? Playing one? (telling me more about it, cos I've not done either?)

I'd quite like to play to be honest, and also, by starting this new thread we can hopefully avoid interrupting the homebrewmancy taking place in the original thread.

Games I'd like to play are 3.5/4th ed/Star Wars saga edition/Paranoia/Exalted/Scion and maybe others, but I forget where I put the books, and have also forgotten what they are.

So yeah, anyone interested?

[privatepepper]

Maybe third edition Dungeons and Dragons with the 3.5 version of the Expanded Psionics Handbook and the Miniatures Rules?

[Lentava-Heppa]

Games I have played:
-DnD 3.5
-Paizo Pathfinder (Based on 3.5 mechanics, takes best parts of 3.5 and 4.0 and makes everything more awesome. It can be freely downloaded from Paizo's site.)
-Vampire the Masquerade
-Werewolf the Apocalypse
-Hunter the Reckoning

Games I have DMed:
-DnD 3.5
-Paizo Pathfinder
-DnD 4.0 (Yes, though I haven't got to play it)

Games I would be very interested in DMing
-Vampire The Masquerade
-Inquisition themed game for mortals in the World of Darkness
-Perhaps Pathfinder or DnD 3.5

However, every time I have tried to run a PbP boards game the same thing has happened: A few weeks have been great, everyone has been happy, then I for some reason or another can't post for a week or two without being able to give proper warnings of it beforehand and the games have died. That's the problem with PbP games: Games with people you know aren't likely to die out unless people actually become horribly busy or someone else from the group wants to start DMing his own campaign. However, in medium in which you know all the others only from one forum and meet them only there, people are more likely to desert the games. Or well... At least that is something I have had to notice in myself. I someone has a cure for such a problem, I can run some game.

[Lothmar]

Games I'd like to play are 3.5/4th ed/Star Wars saga edition

I've played both and I must say I prefer 4th edition star wars. In fact my group is currently playing a pre-rebel alliance, end of clone wars game. It was a 10th level game and we really needed a reason to get everyone together so I played an organization leader/noble who spec'd in money and buffs. Basically I was the rich bard naval officer.

Admiral Denaro' Mundi of the Interplanetary relief systems fleet.
(Yes according to star wars history Ki-Adi-Mundi had 'one' son and I was playing him. XD)

We were a subsidiary security force of the empire and we smuggled jedi/etc. It's loads of fun. Another player wanted to play an ace pilot but couldnt afford a ship so we got together and he's my Lt. and my organization footed the bill for the majority of a ship worth almost 2 million credits. XD We're as tough if not tougher then any frigate (can almost take a capital ship one on one) and we're faster then the millenium fulcan (a match in hyperspace since game had limits on engines, etc.).

~Edit~ And as I said my character was obsessed with money so it was interesting when a 'jedi' class character joined the game late in the session. He wanted to become a passenger on the ship. "Allright then, this is the standard contract includeing fees, rights and privledges," I was just rambling legaleeze and of course the ultimate jedi moment happend.

"I dont have to pay the passenger fee." And he rolled a natural 20. Normally I would have been worried but all seven powers in my force suite were defensive force powers (2x mind trick, 2x negate energy, 2x rebuke, 1x kinetic combat - for +5 cha to attack rather then -2 str XD). And wouldnt you know it, I rolled a natural 20 on my 'rebuke' power check as well. "Ungh... Now listen! If you're strapped for cash I understand but dont ever do that to me again."

And he just had the most dumbfounded look on his face after that and he put two and two together. "Oh, that mundi..." It was the perfect note to end the session on. XD Needless to say I let him fly for free once I knew he was a force user, it's just one of my characters favorite tests of a users power since its such a common use of mind trick.

[Lothmar]

On a lighter note, I'd be open for 3.5 Dnd or star wars 4th edition; i've been looking for something to do in the afternoon after work on my weekdays.
I've played alot of the white wolf systems at least once but i've never been great at them; and I havent quite mastered 4th edition dnd since my group has only played it once.

~Edit~ Hey, my group does that splitting of systems thing to. Only we do it between 3 and 3.5 and play 3.25 instead of 3.75 which you seem to be refering to.

[blackcitadel9]

I must say, of the all the games I said I'd be up for Star Wars Saga Ed is definately top of the list. I like it as a system and a setting. My friends like it because we get to break canon and laugh horribly in it's face. Of course we don't call it that, we call it...Force Retcon.
"What? There were no Jedi Sentinels in the Clone Wars era? Not anymore...huh...Interesting...That Palpatine fellow, why he's rather evil. Perhaps we should all go Jedi on his Sith ass?"

As for the "games dying" scenario. I can't say anything or promise anything. My RL games fall to pieces all the time...We just pick ourselves up and move on. I reckon if enough games I play or GM fall apart, eventually I'll be immune to the heartbreaking agony it causes. And then finally, I will be truly ruthless, as a player or a GM. *ahem* But I'm not evil. At all. Really.

[Lothmar]

Talk about breaking canon, my group has been planning to kidnap grand moth Tarkin whose imposing martial law on naboo with fifteen star destroyers, swap places with him temporarily, rescue captain Tiafo (black guy, eyepatch. probably misspelled.) at a royal party (set up by me) for the peaceful and trouble free transference of power during this temporary occupation. ~Rolls eyes~

Hopefully if all goes well, the blockade will end, as per terms with tarkin naboo will come under the protection and juristiction (n name only) of the IRSF (increasing my organization score and power. ^^) Taifo will be 'released' and can return to training rebel pilots and hiding jedi's on the hidden naboo site and we can pump Tarkin for information and pass that on to my senate allies to help pass legislation to slow down emperial expansion-etc temporarily and finally ransoming off Tarkin to kota's militia.

But worse comes to worse, my organization is in hutt space so it's not likely to come under direct attack from the empire. But we will be traitors to the republic and all the work i've done to undermine their efforts and help for the rebel alliance and re-establish the senate will have gone to waste.

[privatepepper]

Talk about breaking canon, my group has been planning to kidnap grand moth Tarkin whose imposing martial law on naboo with fifteen star destroyers, swap places with him temporarily, rescue captain Tiafo (black guy, eyepatch. probably misspelled.) at a royal party (set up by me) for the peaceful and trouble free transference of power during this temporary occupation. ~Rolls eyes~

Hopefully if all goes well, the blockade will end, as per terms with tarkin naboo will come under the protection and juristiction (n name only) of the IRSF (increasing my organization score and power. ^^) Taifo will be 'released' and can return to training rebel pilots and hiding jedi's on the hidden naboo site and we can pump Tarkin for information and pass that on to my senate allies to help pass legislation to slow down emperial expansion-etc temporarily and finally ransoming off Tarkin to kota's militia.

But worse comes to worse, my organization is in hutt space so it's not likely to come under direct attack from the empire. But we will be traitors to the republic and all the work i've done to undermine their efforts and help for the rebel alliance and re-establish the senate will have gone to waste.

You misspelled Moff, too.

[malekith]

-DnD 3.5
-Paizo Pathfinder (Based on 3.5 mechanics, takes best parts of 3.5 and 4.0 and makes everything more awesome. It can be freely downloaded from Paizo's site.)
-Vampire the Masquerade
-Werewolf the Apocalypse
-Hunter the Reckoning
-DnD 4.0
-Vampire The Masquerade
-Inquisition themed game for mortals in the World of Darkness

Id be open to play any of these casually PbP, plus a couple more (e.g. All Flesh Must be Eaten)
but i'd have to get up to speed on some of the others as I havent played em before and I'd also like to have a clear understanding of how you intend to run a PbP game exactly because I have come across a few different systems

M

[Lothmar]

You misspelled Moff, too.

Figured as much. XD
Yeah, star wars overload recently. I've only seen the movies so I never even remember the title Moff. But I think i've done well juggling all things considered that this is my first star wars game.

[blackcitadel9]

So anyone got any ideas. Games they want to run, how exactly we'd do a PbP game, dice rolls etc., ground rules, house rules, stuff like that?
Since I really want to play a game, not run one (due to rash of poor TT games, I've decided against anymore GMing until I get some inspiration, confidence and generally stop feeling like I suck horribly at running games. When GMing becomes a chore, something's gone horribly wrong.) I'm loathe to suggest much else. I can only express interest, and I already said which games I'd be interested in.
Still, having never played a PbP game before, I would like to know more from people in the know, both playing and GMing, or point me in the right direction to find out more myself. Whatever floats your boat.

EDIT: Recently picked up Shadowrun 4th ed, add it to my list of "games I'd like to play"

[blackcitadel9]

Bump

[Lothmar]

bUMP-

[blackcitadel9]

It seems that PbP gaming is not on the menu then, but if anyone does think "Oh yeah, I want to run a <insert game here> game and need players." PM me, if I've heard of the game or have it's rules or it's listed in my games I want to play bit, I'll probably be willing to play.

[chrono]

However, every time I have tried to run a PbP boards game the same thing has happened: A few weeks have been great, everyone has been happy, then I for some reason or another can't post for a week or two without being able to give proper warnings of it beforehand and the games have died. That's the problem with PbP games: Games with people you know aren't likely to die out unless people actually become horribly busy or someone else from the group wants to start DMing his own campaign. However, in medium in which you know all the others only from one forum and meet them only there, people are more likely to desert the games. Or well... At least that is something I have had to notice in myself. I someone has a cure for such a problem, I can run some game.

I have a combination of cures. Obviously they're far from a panacea (the problems you mention are very much real) but I did manage to run a few games which I thought went well (i.e. 3 months of at least 10 posts per day, each day with up to 20ish players at any given time). Admittedly, it wasn't DnD.

Problem 1) You're the GM, you're expected to dedicate more time than everybody else.
Solution: start the game prepared to dedicate more time than everybody else. Think about PCs, quests, plots, surprise your players. Figure out what they want, actively keep them happy.

Problem 2) Combat (i.e. DnD) takes 3 weeks to complete
Solution 1: don't wait for players unless you absolutely have to. That spot check in the forest? You don't have to wait for a day for each player to make it, you can roll it instead. Or do something else (i.e. make players do 20 rolls in invisible castle, use them as the need comes up). That way each player has made their own rolls AND they aren't always sure what roll they made/failed (i.e. if you say "You see a merchant down the road" they're not sure if it's because of the 19 that's coming up or because it's just a fat merchant who's making no effort to conceal himself).

Solution 2: come up with good custom rules, and wing it. Example:
-Make combat more real time - each round of combat is resolved within a definite period, best 24 hours (player posts or not). Initiative is influenced (on GM discretion) by posting turn. The best part is that it's also more realistic - in a real fight you can't wait to see if your comrade which is a fraction of a second faster than you managed to land his hit so you can plan accordingly. Example combat with players P1, P2, goblins G1, G2 (the surprise round has passed):
--In one scenario P1 has posted an attack on G1. P2 logs in sees the post above, posts an attack on G2 (yes, taking a risk because he isn't sure how P1's attack went - for all he knows P1 may roll a critical miss, fall prone, drop his weapon and be in dire need of assistance). The GM logs in and resolves the combat: P1 hits G1, the goblin is mad.P2 hits G2, G2 dies. G1 hits P1 back. Round is over, next one will be over in 24 hours or less.
--In another scenario P1 has posted an attack on G1. P2 decides to post later. P1 has posted an attack on G1. G2, seeing that P1 is more aggressive sneaks around to flank him: G2 hits P1. P2 logs in, attacks the hurt goblin (G1). GM resolves: G1 dies, round is over (as above)
If the above two scenarios look the same to you, consider this: in the second case the PCs have suffered double the damage they did in the first case. Further more, they lost tactical advantage (they could have flanked the goblins, but instead the PCs were the ones flanked). Combat ran this way is realistic and avoids waiting for each single player to post exactly on his turn each single time. You do have to have your players' trust to do this - a round is 24 hours long and if a player doesn't post he has to know that the GM will take his action without harming the PC's best interest.
It's all down to GM discretion of course - for all you (the GM) care, even though you have both players' posts, you can run the round in the way you see most reasonably. Maybe you rolled 20s for G1 and G2s initiative, so it can go another way: both goblins attack P1. G1 shoots his bow, G2 goes in melee. Now P1 is in melee with G2 and it's unreasonable to provoke an attack of opportunity to go all the way to G1. So I'd run the combat like this: G1 shoots at P1, G2 goes in melee and swings. P1 hits back and takes G2 down, P2 (although he said he attacks G2, but G2 is down) goes and attacks G1. If you encourage the players to describe their actions like they're readying actions this flows much smoother (i.e. "I hit the nearest goblin" instead of "I hit G1". In a real fight the enemies don't have little numbers over their heads and you really don't care what name/number the one you attack first is, as long as you have a good shot at him). Be lenient at first, let players get used to it. If you know your players well enough you can pull off some beautiful combats AND have your players be happy about it.

Problem 3) Shit happens, people drop out.
Solution 1: start the game knowing you'll have to replace players. Better yet, start the game knowing that if all goes well (i.e. game is long and fun) you may have to replace every single PC from your starting party. Plan quests/plots accordingly. Have plot hooks that allow replacement players to join within a few days of someone disappearing. Keep the recruitment thread open, have one or two replacement players ready at all times (drop them a message to say hi each week - you'll make friends AND know if they're still interested). If need be, start recruiting again (better sooner than later).
Solution 2: don't be afraid to be a right bastard. Require good backstory, require complete character sheets, require imagination, require RP experience. You're an experienced GM, you have imagination, you've put a lot of thought and effort into this campaign (hopefully). It's really not worth going through the trouble with people who can't be bothered to read all the rules or write more than a paragraph's worth of backstory. English doesn't have to be a player's first language, but hell, most languages use proper capitalization and punctuation, so legibility is a must. It is harsh to people who don't have all that much time to spare and it is harsh to newbies - you just have to want to run the game more than you want to be nice to absolutely everybody.
Solution 3: combine 1 and 2

Problem 4) Issues arise, players quarrel.
Solution: having your players dislike each other OOC is one of the worst things that can happen to a GM. There's no easy solution - you can try combining two approaches - talk to each player OOC about if they want to overcome their issues and keep playing and lighten up the mood IC, giving a chance to the characters to bond (while railroading them away from chances to quarrel, if you have to).

NOTE: I assume somewhat quick-pased (for forums) games - most suggestions are geared towards a game that requires active/enthusiastic players and 1 post per day or so (as a general rule, at lest double that for GM, though when I had time to spare it was at least 4x).

That's about all my loose mental change at the moment. Hope it helps somebody (cuz I'd sure like to play again).

[jioan]

I'll play a game, but I don't have enough time to DM a game online and with my friends. They demand a lot of our weekly seesions and I spend a good amount of my free time working on the campain.

[Varmus]

Problem 3) Shit happens, people drop out.
Solution 1: start the game knowing you'll have to replace players. Better yet, start the game knowing that if all goes well (i.e. game is long and fun) you may have to replace every single PC from your starting party. Plan quests/plots accordingly. Have plot hooks that allow replacement players to join within a few days of someone disappearing. Keep the recruitment thread open, have one or two replacement players ready at all times (drop them a message to say hi each week - you'll make friends AND know if they're still interested). If need be, start recruiting again (better sooner than later).
Solution 2: don't be afraid to be a right bastard. Require good backstory, require complete character sheets, require imagination, require RP experience. You're an experienced GM, you have imagination, you've put a lot of thought and effort into this campaign (hopefully). It's really not worth going through the trouble with people who can't be bothered to read all the rules or write more than a paragraph's worth of backstory. English doesn't have to be a player's first language, but hell, most languages use proper capitalization and punctuation, so legibility is a must. It is harsh to people who don't have all that much time to spare and it is harsh to newbies - you just have to want to run the game more than you want to be nice to absolutely everybody.
Solution 3: combine 1 and 2

I agree with that. I play in about a dozen or so play-by-forum games, mostly D&D 3.5, and I must say that this is the best solution. There were games that ended in two weeks, there were games that were played for quite a long time (over 800+ posts, srsly) while replacing all players twice, heck, even a game that was resurrected for fifth time recently and people are playing. I guess two things are required: 1) players must become interested in the game and 2) GM can't expect from players posting more than 1 post / 1 GM's post. I also know that posting at least once per day is impossible. Things happen.

That said, I declare I'm interested in participating in D&D 3.5, D&D 4th ed, d20 Modern, Werewolf: The Apocalyplse, Vampire: The Masquerade, Star Wars: Saga Edition or Legend of the Five Rings 3rd Edition game.

[Secret]

Umm I fell like an idiot for asking but what is PbP?
About the playing online, I just don't see how it could work well, though some of the things chrono said cover most of my worries with it. For one how would rolling work? Would you just trust that the players are honest and not lieing rolls? I think the only way to play online would to do a live IRC or something with the players meeting up at some time every week(or more times a week if the players could) and the GM handling all the rolls.

[Varmus]

Umm I fell like an idiot for asking but what is PbP?
About the playing online, I just don't see how it could work well, though some of the things chrono said cover most of my worries with it. For one how would rolling work? Would you just trust that the players are honest and not lieing rolls? I think the only way to play online would to do a live IRC or something with the players meeting up at some time every week(or more times a week if the players could) and the GM handling all the rolls.

PbP - Play by Post, also known as Play By Forum (PBF) is a way to play RPGs through a messageboard. It's quite fun, actually. The main idea is allowing players to post when they have time, eliminating the problem of meeting with each other at designated time (and place), which proved itself to be often very hard.

You can find some PBP games running on Wizards of the Coast messageboards. And in many, many other places.

About rolls, there are two ways - GM handles all the rolls or everyone uses a web diceroller, like this one. It's a small polish one, so please don't overload it

I play almost only PbPs (as I haven't often have time to spare on meeting up with people for 4-6 hours each week, poor me ) and I can say it works and is also great fun.

[chrono]

http://invisiblecastle.com/ is pretty much the standard in dice rolling. Each die roll has a unique ID as well as player/campaign name and date/time of rolling. All in all it is effective (i.e. you can roll full character stats in command - 4d6 6 times, drop lowest, etc) also comes close to cheat-proof dice rolling.

Some RP forums have their own dice rollers which are reasonably good at handling this as well (and you're saved the trouble of having to verify rolls in invisible castle).

Anyway, playing PbP is way different from actually sitting around a table with your friends (and no amount of good ideas can change that). It still has the potential to be great fun, it just takes a bit more persistence and patience than usual.

@Varmus: When I said 1 roll per day I meant that on average - everybody has stuff come up occasionally. But I have to disagree about it being impossible. I've had a number of players who posted almost real-time for weeks (even months) in a row and even if they had to be gone for a day (or less) they let me know in advance. We worked it out what they wanted to do and then I could NPC them while staying in character without much effort.

Anyway, the overall point is that on RP forums there are usually WAY more good players than good GMs. Hell, even new GMs are scarce, so if you start a game on one of those forums (i.e. giantitp) you can usually count on 5 or even 10 people applying for each slot (provided you run something popular, usually DnD). From then on it's just a matter of guesstimating which of the applicants have the best combination of ability, availability and dedication.