Summer Updates - 044

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Re: Summer Updates - 044

Postby Skyer » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:13 am

It's even worse in Alpha Centuri.
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Re: Summer Updates - 044

Postby moose o death » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:14 am

maybe he was. was his name stanley plaid?

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Re: Summer Updates - 044

Postby gameboy1234 » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:04 am

Lord Kasavin wrote:Parson is obviously going to fall in love with Stanley's plated Red.



Well Maggie did say "any unit," so....
"Do it?" Dan, I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome?

I did it thirty-five minutes ago.

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Re: Summer Updates - 044

Postby BillMcD » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:04 am

slb wrote:Interesting how you've come back to animals regarding the feeding, sure humans are not considering this activity "closely reserved", they actually enjoy this activity in crowded areas like restaurants. But guess what ? They no more consider sleeping "closely reserved", never heard of dormitories ?


Having lived in one for a time, I think I have. I also remember how many people were uncomfortable with dorm living at first - they're not something we're naturally given to. Dormitory living is something we get conditioned to, rather. That, if anything, is the 'cultural influence' you're seeking in sex.

As for restaurants, again, you're looking at something we become acclimated to from a very early age. More of that 'cultural influence'. And yet there are still quite a number of people who don't feel comfortable sitting in a public place with their backs to the door or to a large room.

I know it's difficult to admit a taboo because it is ingrained and considered "normal", Diogenes was already unsettling the citizens of Athens because he was ridiculing the traditions and taboos 2500 years ago by masturbating in public. But at least he was not thrown in prison for that.


And? Athenians being stuffy isn't even close to the same thing as the intentional violation of another person's most protected personal territory.


Sorry, I was not explicit enough. My point was to explain that your use of animal matting habits was a nonsense because animals themselves do not all show the behavior you're attributing them. If mating is dangerous for a species, evolution will take care of that and matting will be very short (a few seconds for a rabbit) and avoid non-reproductive behavior; conversely predators are not vulnerable during the matting (several minutes for a lion). You could certainly draw a better comparison regarding animal and human sexuality with predators or even better primates like bonobo/chimpanzes who actually are using sex as a social behavior.


Of course predators are vulnerable during mating. The difference is they have far fewer predators to be afraid of (like... none, really). Apes don't have that luxury. Not even bonobo chimpanzee, who use sex as quite a number of social behaviors, from reward to establishing dominance in the troupe to more or less out and out bribery for future considerations, have that luxury. That's one of the reasons for increasingly complex social arrangements - the responsibility for security gets shifted from each individual to the collective alertness of the group, which allows for a greater degree of security. Trying to say that bonobo engage in sexual behaviors while they don't feel secure is just ludicrous, especially when social bonding, one of the main aims of bonobo sexual activity, is (among other benefits) one of the chief means bonobo have to attain that security.

You are twisting Libet's work here. Nowhere Libet says that unconscious processes in the brain are "dominant" for decision-making: They are the initiators, this is extremely different. Libet also explains that after this unconscious initiator, then the consciousness accept or veto. And that's basically where all our education and sophisticated motives are, including our sex taboos.


Libet demonstrated that decisions are made and often carried out before the conscious mind is even aware of the decision.

Has a transhumanist, I disagree with this statement but it is unrelated to our topic, if you're interested on discussing that we may start a new thread.


Having had the discussion with many, many people in many settings more specifically devoted to such topics, that's ok, it's likely not a conversation either of us needs to have again.

We know that at least a caster unit may not want it, remember Sizemore & Parson dialog about killing.


We do know that - but we don't know that Parson wanted Sizemore to desire killing - presumably, even in Erfworld, when someone desires intimacy from another person, they generally desire that person's interest and appreciation of them.

Sure, except that again, intimacy is related to a sex taboo and has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it is a reproductive act


Considering my position that society exists, at its root, for the purpose of enabling reproduction... I'd say that it's likely we'll have to agree to disagree on that one, because we are at an impasse. From my position, it would be categorically impossible for any behavior to have 'nothing to do with' reproduction, however indirectly. From yours, we have almost completely divorced ourselves from our biology.
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Re: Summer Updates - 044

Postby valce » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:36 am

BillMcD wrote:And? Athenians being stuffy isn't even close to the same thing as the intentional violation of another person's most protected personal territory.


I concur. Get off mah lawn, hooligans!
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Re: Summer Updates - 044

Postby dirocyn » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:53 pm

I am astonished by how many people reacted negatively to the implications of this strip, particularly issues of sex. I read it as though Maggie is hitting on Parson. Also, she is telling him that he is desireable, that any unit would be honored to have sex with him. Remember, this is a different society than Earth--Erf apparently lacks the stigma of sex with fat people. Parson is big, Parson is strong, Parson is very smart, Parson is a warlord--all of this combines to make Parson a sexy beast, at least in Maggie's estimation.

Second, Maggie is a size queen and assumes the Archons are as well. The larger the battering ram, the more pleasurable--a fairly juvenile way of looking at the world, perhaps, but not unprecedented. Parson is not so very much bigger than Erfworlders. I know a couple where the man is 6'2" and weighs over 300 lbs and the woman is 5' and weighs less than 120, they have a child. They look a bit like Parson and Maggie, actually--she sometimes wears a pith helmet. But seriously, unless Parson is already hung like a horse by Earth standards, there's not going to be a problem.

Third, Erfworlders do not have the concept of free will. By our standards that's unusual, but it's not far out of line with what John Calvin was writing in the 1530s. During that period on Earth, the very concept of Free Will was a heresy--one which could get you excommunicated or "disbanded." In Erf, and as Calvin saw Earth, free will does not exist. An external power determines what one will do, for all of one's existence. For Calvin that force was an omniscient God who had already determined your fate before you were born, for Erfworlders that force is duty to the leader/warlord. Failing to follow an order--failing to want to follow an order, is literally unthinkable. In that context, any order given is one the unit wants to follow--and you can't rape the willing. I'm more bothered by the absence of free will than by the idea of sex with a unit that lacks free will.
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Re: Summer Updates - 044

Postby Emaria » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:25 pm

dirocyn wrote:Remember, this is a different society than Earth--Erf apparently lacks the stigma of sex with fat people.


Seems like they generally look at fat people the same way to me. I mean stanley called him a "giant potato man", "a quivering pail of pus", and a "blubbery bag of-". Wanda described him to bogroll as "A pink you with depth perception", and bogroll obviously got no respect, although not necessarily because he was fat. But this was all before parson proved himself as Warlord. I think if anything maggie would be attracted to him because of his success and mental prowess.
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Re: Summer Updates - 044

Postby moose o death » Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:19 pm

dirocyn wrote:Second, Maggie is a size queen and assumes the Archons are as well. The larger the battering ram, the more pleasurable--a fairly juvenile way of looking at the world, perhaps, but not unprecedented. Parson is not so very much bigger than Erfworlders. I know a couple where the man is 6'2" and weighs over 300 lbs and the woman is 5' and weighs less than 120, they have a child. They look a bit like Parson and Maggie, actually--she sometimes wears a pith helmet. But seriously, unless Parson is already hung like a horse by Earth standards, there's not going to be a problem.


your example is two humans

now take your 300pound 6 foot tall guy and partner him with a 50 pound 3 foot tall woman. the erf units are proportional to parson. if they were simply smaller versions of his species certain parts would be disproportionate, this was why i was looking for images with little people and regular sized people. i'll resume that hunt

https://dl.getdropbox.com/u/937971/smallpeople.jpg

ok you can see here these two little people, the shoulders are almost as broad as the guys behind. the heads are almost the same size, the wave after wave of midget porn i found with this image, the womans hips were about as wide as the male (they were close together which made that guestimation easier) so while they wouldn't be quite as well equipped to carry children. it could be downright dangerous. they are at least disproprtionate enough to be compatible fairly easily.

but now take an average height woman with the ideal body shape ratio's. scale her down to the four foot tall mark erfworlders appear to be. assuming 6 foot tall is average (it is for men in aus) your looking at a woman where all those components right down too the hip bones are 33% smaller.

our woman can stretch to facilitate childbirth, erf woman may or may not it's not an issue generally.


but because i want to stop discussing this, and rob hasn't seen fit to move us on yet, i doubt it's going to be an issue. parson is a bit overweight. i doubt he's hung like a horse. anything that starts internal and moves to the exterior...wont be as long if it needs to travel further
also my theory of parson being an erfworlder unit from MK, and earth being planted memories or a custom designed existence that could teach a warlord mathamancy, and war theory. but i wont go there in this topic
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Re: Summer Updates - 044

Postby DevilDan » Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:04 pm

Actually, I'd rather have that sort of "brains in vats" discussion, never-ending as it may be, than further discussions of the physiology of sexual relations between partners of different builds.
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Re: Summer Updates - 044

Postby Emaria » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:56 pm

well you know if we were just all brains in vats it would make this entire story much more plausible. There wouldn't really be any physiology to worry about cause it would all just be in the imagination. Oh but I don't like brains in vats. There must still be a better topic out there, just not in this thread (as hard as we tried to get it off topic).

also my theory of parson being an erfworlder unit from MK, and earth being planted memories or a custom designed existence that could teach a warlord mathamancy, and war theory


Also, that's a little out there moose.
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Re: Summer Updates - 044

Postby BillMcD » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:25 pm

Emaria wrote:
also my theory of parson being an erfworlder unit from MK, and earth being planted memories or a custom designed existence that could teach a warlord mathamancy, and war theory


Also, that's a little out there moose.


My theory is that Parson wasn't actually summoned into Erfworld, he was summoned into Bizarro-Erfworld, where he's a brain in a vat being used to run battle simulations and only imagining he's actually in Erfworld.

Or he's not. It's one or the other, I'm sure!
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Re: Summer Updates - 044

Postby Skyer » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:11 am

If he (Parson) is fundementally an erfworld unit, why can't anyone see his stats? And why does he have moral compunctions? Heck, why is he such a different size?

He came from some other ruleset, that much is clear.
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Re: Summer Updates - 044

Postby Gez » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:58 am

There's no theory yet that Erfworld is somehow Earth after a nuclear cataclysm? I'm disappointed. :P
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Re: Summer Updates - 044

Postby raphfrk » Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:03 am

Gez wrote:There's no theory yet that Erfworld is somehow Earth after a nuclear cataclysm? I'm disappointed. :P


The problem is that Parson is not able to leave GK, so he can't get to a beach :).
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Re: Summer Updates - 044

Postby DevilDan » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:06 pm

raphfrk wrote:
Gez wrote:There's no theory yet that Erfworld is somehow Earth after a nuclear cataclysm? I'm disappointed. :P


The problem is that Parson is not able to leave GK, so he can't get to a beach :).

"You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, boop you! Titan boop you all to heck!"

The other alternative is: "You cutified it all up!"
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Re: Summer Updates - 044

Postby Ionox » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:01 pm

I just realized this adds a new level of creepiness to Sizemore's line "There is." In this strip http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=/076.jpg This may explain the Maggie eye-flash.
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Re: Summer Updates - 044

Postby GobwinPie » Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:00 am

Ionox wrote:I just realized this adds a new level of creepiness to Sizemore's line "There is." In this strip http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=/076.jpg This may explain the Maggie eye-flash.


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