Overlord vs. Ruler

[Kreistor]

Rob Balder just wrote this on the Wiki:

A gem is a physical object which can be converted directly to Shmuckers by a caster, warlord or ruler. Shmuckers cannot be made into gems, except by a Moneymancer.

Well, that's cool. New info for us. There's no third party buying gems, it just poofs from gem to shmuckers. But...

Note that Rob used the term Ruler. He found the term did not have a page on the Wiki, instead finding us using "Overlord".

Here's why, I think... Klog 5. "Only one overlord per side. Overlord sets production for all cities."

Later, we have Klog 10. Gone is the term Overlord, now it's Ruler. "Some may disobey if the believe the order goes against higher orders or the Ruler's interests."

So, this is what I think we were supposed to believe. Parson first met Stanle, an Overlord. He lacked knowledge of Royals, so had no reason to know that Overlord wasn't the term for all Side leaders. No, he later finds out Overlords are non-Royal side leaders, and Royalists call themselves Kings (or Tsar, or Don, or something else). So he now uses the term Ruler to refer to a Side's leadership, regardless of Royalty. We, however, don't get in on that insight, and so it looks like Ruler and Overlord are interchangeable.

So, hopefully Rob will clarify. If Ruler is correct, I'll fix the Wiki, if no one beats me to it.

[Muzzafar]

I feel that Overlord is the official term for a guy who is the sole leader/ruler of his capital side. (If he or she is Royal, then King or Queen can be used.)
I guess Ruler is just a synonym.

[Lothmar]

I believe the titles were as follows if I remember correctly.

King/overlord (or other befitting title signifying the overall leader of the faction (Stanley - overlord, Saline - King)
Chief Warlord (Parson/ansom/others who 'can' do the work if the overall ruler is not available)
Overall those are the top two positions.

[Occasional Sage]

To me, that begs the question of why you'd convert schmuckers to gems. What purpose do they serve?

[Frogpop]

Encumbrance. You can probably carry and move a highly valuable gem more easily than its equivalent in schmuckers. If Stanley had a moneymancer then maybe he could have escaped with Goblin Knob's treasury, and Wanda wouldn't have been able to convince him to buy the Parson spell.

[raphfrk]

In the talk page. Balder has confirmed that Ruler is the official term

This is correct. All Overlords are Rulers. All Kings are Rulers. Ruler is the generic term for the principle leader of a side.

[raphfrk]

Encumbrance. You can probably carry and move a highly valuable gem more easily than its equivalent in schmuckers.

Right, but it is not an encumbrance limit, it is a purse limit. From the purse article, a unit can only carry 1000*level schmuckers.

Even if Stanley is level 10 (unlikely), then he could only take 10,000 schmuckers with him.

As you say, with a moneymancer, he could have converted it to gems. However, they might be covered by an encumbrance limit (say your inventory has only 100 slots).

[Kreistor]

Okay, Wiki is fixed. Ruler and Overlord have separate definitions.

On a side note... what makes you think Stanley isn't Level 10 or even much higher? He's described as winning battles for Saline using his dwagons and Arkenhammer, which puts him in the thick of the fighting, both gaining XP for killing things and winning battles as Warlord/Chief Warlord. Stanley may not be a good strategist, but he hits really, really hard. He's probably the highest level character in play right now, and probably the best one-on-one combatant.

[raphfrk]

On a side note... what makes you think Stanley isn't Level 10 or even much higher?

Yeah, true. Ansom is level 10, so Stanley could easily be that high.

[Lothmar]

He easily seemed to smack transylvitos chief warlord aside in one swing. XD

[The Old Hack]

I strongly suspect that Stanley is stone hard in combat. He used to win lots of battles for poor old Saline IV. Stanley's real problem, I feel, is that he is a victim of the Peter Principle, which states that 'in a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence.' He was likely a quite good Piker, an effective Warlord and a very decent Chief Warlord as long as he had someone to give him orders that made sense -- but totally out of his depth once he ascended to the very top. This is unfortunately not uncommon, especially not in military hierarchies.

[gameboy1234]

Okay, Wiki is fixed. Ruler and Overlord have separate definitions.

On a side note... what makes you think Stanley isn't Level 10 or even much higher? He's described as winning battles for Saline using his dwagons and Arkenhammer, which puts him in the thick of the fighting, both gaining XP for killing things and winning battles as Warlord/Chief Warlord. Stanley may not be a good strategist, but he hits really, really hard. He's probably the highest level character in play right now, and probably the best one-on-one combatant.

Well, don't forget that Stanley was riding a dragon at the time, with an Akentool, and was dance fighting too. I'm sure Stanley is around level 10. But Rob has also said the leveling curve is like a logarithmic one, and levels like 10 and 11 are very difficult to achieve. Level 20 is "unheard of" I think he said. So Stanley could be around level 10 but it's unlikely he's much higher. I'm sure Jetstone was sending their best troops to get Stanley. So I'd guess that level 10 is close to the maximum practical level.

My 2 schmukers.

[raphfrk]

But Rob has also said the leveling curve is like a logarithmic one, and levels like 10 and 11 are very difficult to achieve.

Assuming that the base is only 1.5 (so 50% more needed for go from level 2 to 3 as to go from 1 to 2), then the exp required to go from 9 to 10 would be 25 times larger than going from 1 to 2.

Total exp required would be something like

Level: Total exp required
1: 0
2: 100 (baseline)
3: 250
4: 475
5: 813
6: 1319
7: 2078
8: 3217
9: 4926
10: 7489
11: 11333
12: 17100
13: 25749
14: 38724
15: 58186
16: 87379
17: 131168
18: 196852
19: 295378
20: 443168

Thus someone on level 10 would need to earn 9.2 times more exp than someone on level 5.

[Lothmar]

Didnt nobles have a leveling advantage as well making it easier for them to level up?

[raphfrk]

Didnt nobles have a leveling advantage as well making it easier for them to level up?

Actually, if the exp growth factor is different for nobles, then it would make a massive difference at higher levels. OTOH, it might just be that they level twice as quickly.

[konmanrocks]

Didnt nobles have a leveling advantage as well making it easier for them to level up?

yes, it was mentioned in one of the klogs that royal units level faster

[Kreistor]

Well, don't forget that Stanley was riding a dragon at the time, with an Akentool, and was dance fighting too. I'm sure Stanley is around level 10. But Rob has also said the leveling curve is like a logarithmic one, and levels like 10 and 11 are very difficult to achieve. Level 20 is "unheard of" I think he said. So Stanley could be around level 10 but it's unlikely he's much higher. I'm sure Jetstone was sending their best troops to get Stanley. So I'd guess that level 10 is close to the maximum practical level.

He isn't shown Dance-fighting in Faq in 160, but that's irrelevant. If he can, it's part of himself and it makes him a better combatant.

The dwagons, well, how often are we going to see a one-on-one between two individuals in this place? Stanley and his dwagons destroyed Faq wholesale. In a single Turn. But dwagons are hardly overpowering: Jillian kills unwounded dwagons, as well as wounded ones. But if winning battles confers XP on Stanley as Warlord (suggested by his comments to Parson about Warlords not getting XP if they retreat), then those dwagons are going to carry him to higher level. And that's what I was asking about... why think he's lower level? Dwagons win, so he gets XP. Arknehammer massacres a stack of enemies, he gets XP for killing and XP for winning the battle. The Arkenhammer and dwagons are a means for him to gain XP where others would lose: that should make him higher level, regardless of not being Royal with a different XP curve.