Summer Updates – 046

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Re: Summer Updates – 046

Postby Gez » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:07 am

Jatopian wrote:Not only is it not correct, it's less phonetic.

If I have to spell everything out: the "shm-" or "schm-" words are derived from Yiddish, and of the two, the form that starts with "schm-" is closer to the root. Etymology, schmetymology, Joe Schmo!

Which is why I said it looked more correct. Not that it was more correct.
Last edited by Gez on Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Summer Updates – 046

Postby raphfrk » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:08 am

dirocyn wrote:
raphfrk wrote:It looks from the Bea scene, that warlords in the field also instant disband. It is only Heirs (and probably any units in that hex) that can survive being in the field when a Ruler dies.


That's not right, casters also become barbarians. Remember Parson tells Sizemore and Wanda--when the city falls, you'll be barbarians. Get to the Magic Kingdom. Also, Bea sent her casters to the magic kingdom, with instructions to hire to any royal side.


They wouldn't have been "in the field" if they went to the MK.
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Re: Summer Updates – 046

Postby entropomorphic » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:39 am

This is more evidence for me of the Charlie is an Earthling theory... a couple pieces of evidence:

For one, it is explicitly said that nobody knew where he came from... leaving the door wide open for an offworld origin. Of course it could mean he's from anywhere, but I think this line is more significant than that.

And secondly, it reminds us that Erfworlders don't get his jokes. When he makes an Earth reference, Erfworlders just stare at him. The exception: Charlie, of course. Charlie gets Parson's jokes, and it's not just because he can read minds... he fires back in the same manner.

Also, if Charlie stations Archons in predictable places around the world, waiting to be hired... Well Stanley could bolster his roster of Archons pretty quickly by ambushing them and having them decrypted, although that would only work for a couple turns before Charlie withdrew them. Also, it's a good way to piss off Charlie even more, and it may not be the most efficient use of Wanda's skills. Still, food for thought.
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Re: Summer Updates – 046

Postby Tubal-Cain » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:37 pm

Ancient History wrote:If this were one of the Civilization games, Charlie would be the player that squeezes everything he can out of tech trading.


Ahhh... Fond memories of trading a single tech to all willing parties in a single turn, getting the better end of the deal on each transaction...

Decorus wrote:A level 5 city seems to be the cap for cities in Erfworld. Truely murderous defenses means its a lvl 5 city that has some serious upgrades in its defensive structures.

Gobwin Knob is "a Level 5 city, with special defense bonuses adding up to something theoretical like a Level 8, which was supposed to make them the hardest defensive position in the world."
We've never seen anything higher than 5, and I doubt Stanley would have settled for anything less than the best money could buy.
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Re: Summer Updates – 046

Postby Wender » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:48 pm

entropomorphic wrote:And secondly, it reminds us that Erfworlders don't get his jokes. When he makes an Earth reference, Erfworlders just stare at him. The exception: Charlie, of course. Charlie gets Parson's jokes, and it's not just because he can read minds... he fires back in the same manner.


Although his ability to do that might also be a function of his Thinkamancy capabilities: He gets enough context from a communication to respond in a like manner.

More likely, actually, it's a function of the eyebooks, since Sizemore's handle is leetspeek and an Earth joke, and we know he's a native Erfworlder. The eyebooks have a chat feature, so of course it converts everything to chatspeak.

entropomorphic wrote:Also, if Charlie stations Archons in predictable places around the world, waiting to be hired... Well Stanley could bolster his roster of Archons pretty quickly by ambushing them and having them decrypted, although that would only work for a couple turns before Charlie withdrew them. Also, it's a good way to piss off Charlie even more, and it may not be the most efficient use of Wanda's skills. Still, food for thought.


As a lot of people have noted in various ways, the interesting thing about Charlie is that the more money he's making the more diluted his force necessarily is. He's a sort of anti-kingdom. The best way to defeat him is to require him to bring in so many archons to defend his capital that he starts losing money, and then sit there threatening to attack the minute he sends any of them out to make money. He's counting on two things: the fact that it would take a very highly specialized and extremely powerful force to even make a credible threat, and the fact that said force would have to leave enough at home to fend off all the sides that would take advantage of its relative weakness (and some newfound support from Charlie) to move against them. His apparent personal attachment to the archons is touching, but there is also the practical matter that he doesn't want to lose any of them if there's any way he can help it. He's probably calculated the optimal number of archons to keep handy, and as long as he doesn't have to replace them he only has to pay for upkeep. Losing as many as he did at GK, all at once, was a drain on his coffers that he didn't need, and a disruption of the careful balancing of his forces that he really didn't need.
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Re: Summer Updates – 046

Postby Infidel » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:16 pm

Lamech wrote:OTOH I don't like this theory of royalty at all. It doesn't explain many of the more noble traits. Cowardice would be likely favored. Living at the cost of one's men would be another trait. Anything that increases survivablity and popping of new heirs would be favored. Perhaps noblity is a set line of traits that one can move up; in fact this is the only real way one can understand the existance of titles. (Ceaser was a minor noble, if they were simply picked by the ruler that wouldn't matter.) But that would be not much like natural evolution at all, it would be more like breeding by Erf.



I don't get Caesar's minor nobility at all. There is no breeding, so Royalty is either True/False. White or Black, no shades of grey. No marriage issues to complicate things or thin the bloodline by mingling with mere commoners.
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Re: Summer Updates – 046

Postby Gez » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:19 pm

"omg h4x!"
"lol"
"Indeed!"
There is the undeniable proof that Charlie is an Earthling.


But he is not the only Earthling. The same undeniable proof shows us that many, many RCC units are from Earth:
"SRSLY"
"ORLY"
"LOLWUT"
"OMGWTFBBQ"
"PWNED"
"O HAI"
"G2G DED!"
Yes, I think the demonstration has been amply made.

In fact, we can even go one step further and posit that Charlie is an hivemind of snowy owls from Earth.
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Re: Summer Updates – 046

Postby Tubal-Cain » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:19 pm

Wender wrote:More likely, actually, it's a function of the eyebooks, since Sizemore's handle is leetspeek and an Earth joke, and we know he's a native Erfworlder. The eyebooks have a chat feature, so of course it converts everything to chatspeak.

Sizemore doesn't understand kthxbai.
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Re: Summer Updates – 046

Postby Wender » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:25 pm

Tubal-Cain wrote:
Wender wrote:More likely, actually, it's a function of the eyebooks, since Sizemore's handle is leetspeek and an Earth joke, and we know he's a native Erfworlder. The eyebooks have a chat feature, so of course it converts everything to chatspeak.

Sizemore doesn't understand kthxbai.


He doesn't understand pwnz0red either.

Hmm.
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Re: Summer Updates – 046

Postby Yosarian » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:29 pm

Infidel wrote:I don't get Caesar's minor nobility at all. There is no breeding, so Royalty is either True/False. White or Black, no shades of grey. No marriage issues to complicate things or thin the bloodline by mingling with mere commoners.


Well, we know that there are both "Royal" units, and "Noble" units, and that they're not the same. We also know that a side led by a Royal can pop both Royal units and Noble units. That was all in a klog a while back.

Also, I get the feeling Royals are ok with a noble running a side, in a pinch (Ansom said that he hated Stanley because he was "not noble"), but a commoner, not really.

(As a side note, if Charlie is Erfworld's version of a telecomn company, it'd make perfect sense for him to understand text speech more then most erfworlders. )
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Re: Summer Updates – 046

Postby stm177 » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:32 pm

Some of my guesses:

Charlie is building up enough force to do a one-turn decapitation of a dozens of kingdoms at once. It's an old strategy in Civilization. You let your opponents grind each other down, while you tech up to tanks. Then, you dump transports full of tanks in all the biggest kingdoms, and conquer them in one turn using their own railway network. This doesn't work in modern incarnations of Civ because of zone of control limiting the number of hexes a warring power can move through an opponents rail network. But, that kind of zone of control system isn't in Erfworld. It's basically cities with uncontrolled hexes nearby. On higher difficulty levels in Civ, this strategy was hard to pull off, because the opposing Civ's would work together, rather than attacking one another.

Evidence:

Charlie has mercenary forces stationed throughout Erfworld. He has 600 archons all ready, with 480 in the field. He wants Parson, his bracer, or both, when he's never even popped a warlord before. Parson and his bracer would help Charlie capture the maximum number of capitals at once, freezing all the other cities in a kingdom for mop-up operations on later turns. That is, Parson could calculate how many archons needed for each capital, then Charlie could capture dozens at once.

If this is Charlie's strategy, it isn't clear how soon he'd pull the trigger on it. He might want to capture 25 or 50 capitals at once. There's also a likely limit to how many mercenaries are even needed by Erfworld kingdoms. At some point, he might be producing archons that no one wants to hire because the market is flooded with them.
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Re: Summer Updates – 046

Postby raphfrk » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:34 pm

Infidel wrote:I don't get Caesar's minor nobility at all. There is no breeding, so Royalty is either True/False. White or Black, no shades of grey. No marriage issues to complicate things or thin the bloodline by mingling with mere commoners.


It is possible that it isn't. It sounds like the location that you are popped from determined if you can be a Royal or Nobles.

Maybe the city manager determines if it is possible to pop Royals and Nobles. If the city is managed by a Royal, then it can pop Royals. Similarly, if it is managed by a Noble, it can pop Nobles.

Now, a Royal popped by the capital would be a Royal Heir. While, a Royal popped in another city would be of lower standing.

A newly captured level 1 city managed by a Noble would thus be able to pop Nobles, but they wouldn't be considered high status.

In another thread (or maybe earlier in this one), I suggest that Royal/Noble/Commoner status is determined by how long a side lasts, i.e. a side with an overlord might be able to pop a Noble Heir, if it lasts long enough.

Maybe Royals/Nobles popped from cities that have been part of the side for a long time are considered higher status.
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Re: Summer Updates – 046

Postby stm177 » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:39 pm

Yosarian wrote:
Infidel wrote:I don't get Caesar's minor nobility at all. There is no breeding, so Royalty is either True/False. White or Black, no shades of grey. No marriage issues to complicate things or thin the bloodline by mingling with mere commoners.


Well, we know that there are both "Royal" units, and "Noble" units, and that they're not the same. We also know that a side led by a Royal can pop both Royal units and Noble units. That was all in a klog a while back.


It looks like there are:

Heirs
Royalty
Nobility
Commoners

Ansom has two or three brothers -- were they all Royalty? I'm not clear on that.
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Re: Summer Updates – 046

Postby DevilDan » Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:43 pm

stm177 wrote:
Yosarian wrote:
Infidel wrote:I don't get Caesar's minor nobility at all. There is no breeding, so Royalty is either True/False. White or Black, no shades of grey. No marriage issues to complicate things or thin the bloodline by mingling with mere commoners.


Well, we know that there are both "Royal" units, and "Noble" units, and that they're not the same. We also know that a side led by a Royal can pop both Royal units and Noble units. That was all in a klog a while back.


It looks like there are:

Heirs
Royalty
Nobility
Commoners

Ansom has two or three brothers -- were they all Royalty? I'm not clear on that.


They're all princes, hence royalty. For that matter, I would think that all royals are heirs by definition. (Well, one exception might be a king who steps aside; it's also possible that heirs can renounce their right to succession.)
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Re: Summer Updates – 046

Postby Chit Rule Railroad » Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:54 am

joosy wrote:They could also start a smear campaign against Charlie with all other sides, but that sounds just as ardous, long-term and difficult to maintain. They also couldn't possibly match Charlie in getting information out everywhere.


Hmm, we still don't know why "Carl Sagan" and other Thinkamancers were willing to unravel the Maggie-Wanda-Sizemore link for free. I wonder if the Thinkamancers in the Magic Kingdom see Charlie and his Arkendish as an irritating rival for their services and were thankful for his bloody nose.
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Re: Summer Updates – 046

Postby joosy » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:17 am

Chit Rule Railroad wrote:
joosy wrote:They could also start a smear campaign against Charlie with all other sides, but that sounds just as ardous, long-term and difficult to maintain. They also couldn't possibly match Charlie in getting information out everywhere.


Hmm, we still don't know why "Carl Sagan" and other Thinkamancers were willing to unravel the Maggie-Wanda-Sizemore link for free. I wonder if the Thinkamancers in the Magic Kingdom see Charlie and his Arkendish as an irritating rival for their services and were thankful for his bloody nose.


Good theory!

Another possibility is that they seemed to respect Sizemore and were doing it as a personal favor. Hopefully we will see if that quirky behavior reveals a deeper purpose or reason in future updates.
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Re: Summer Updates – 046

Postby Bacon King » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:07 pm

Just curious, but has Charlescomm's capital ever actually been stated to be anywhere near Goblin Knob at all? It could easily be on the other side of the world.
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Re: Summer Updates – 046

Postby Keldaria » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:08 pm

So charlies side doesn't use warlords... I wonder why Charlie was soo interested in capturing parson in book 1 then? Hmmm
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Re: Summer Updates – 046

Postby DevilDan » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:35 pm

Keldaria wrote:So charlies side doesn't use warlords... I wonder why Charlie was soo interested in capturing parson in book 1 then? Hmmm


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Re: Summer Updates – 046

Postby FredLemerory » Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:07 pm

Just catching up on updates, going to post even though im a week behind >_>

First off, the quality of updates seems to have diminished greatly the last week or so. They started off very strong, and exciting, and are quickly becoming meh to bleh.

I am tired of hearing about the sexual exploits of an imaginary fat man. Get on with it already, and by on with it I mean away from anything that can be described as "double rolls" and involving necrophilia. He wont talk around the undead because its creepy, but by jobe hes going to mount the massive moldy mammary mommas like hes in the cavalry first chance he gets. Gross.

Also, its becoming entirely author fiat at this point. I want something to happen so it does, despite all logic and reason. Charlie has 600+ archons, it would have taken him 30 to take GK earlier, which he was going to do but delayed, costing him the archons. Why then, wont he send his 600 and curb stomp them, get both tools, the bracer, and possibly parson and wanda with it. They have enough move to have gotten a terribly large distance the past 30 some odd turns. Hes already shown hes willing, but isnt because ??? If hes worried he could just ask parson, how many archons to croak stanly and take GK. He could probably even talk the RCCII into paying for it in the process. Massive wins across the board.

Further, he could croak wanda in the field with that many archons and claim at least one of the tools. Or he could croak Ansom / Wanda while they are riding the dwagon railroad. Since some archons can have foolamancy specials, he could go as far as to camp right under a dwagons nose, when wanda / ansom come along, ambush, win, claim tool if wanda, if not attack her now that theres no chief warlord bonus to get in the way. Again, not because of ??? Sounds like the writer wrote himself into a corner and is just hand waving things to work.

Neat to hear about Charlescomm and Archons, but overall a poor update.
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