160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby konmanrocks » Wed May 13, 2009 5:57 pm

all this speculation about jack. isnt it simply possible that when they took the city, that one of the casters did one of the thinkamancy spells to change his loyalty to make him come along. it could be he was simply captured, and brought back to GW and maggie switched his loyalty.

now im wondering what wanda will be up too. now that she has the pliers, who does she continue to answer too.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby raphfrk » Wed May 13, 2009 6:01 pm

The Old Hack wrote:And that Faq Predictamancer... is beginning to irritate me. The Faq predictamancer foretold the fall of the Kingdom, well and good. The Faq predictamancer also told Wanda that she would one day possess an Arkentool... directly causing Wanda to enter the bargain that would cause the fall of the Kingdom. Self-fulfilling prophecies, anyone? Did the Predictamancer tell Banhammer of the coming fall because she/he knew it would make Banhammer order an heir popped, for that matter? Whoever that Predictamancer is, I smell manipulation like a forest fire...


It is unclear how it actually works. A prediction might always be vague enough to be able to fit a reasonable set of futures.

If you are fated to do something, then that future is 'locked-in'. For example, if Wanda wasn't supposed to become attuned to a tool, then maybe she would have died when the Archons caused her to fall.

Also, the prediction didn't say which tool. In principle, she could have grabbed them from Ansom, attuned and then been killed a moment later.

Ofc, it seems like a pretty hard feature to code into a game. Imagine in a MMORPG that a NPC said "you are fated to obtain the sword of uberness". How would the programmers actually code it.

One option would be that you get bonuses to luck if it moves you in that direction and penalties if you try to oppose fate.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Infidel » Wed May 13, 2009 6:04 pm

Nice page, although I can't help but feel like it's a bone Rob and Jamie threw us forum dwellers. Even though it has been a major topic of discussion on the forums, it might not even cross most reader's minds and even if they did intend to reveal it, it could have kept for book two.

Not that I'm complaining for getting a bone, I just feel like if we didn't have all those discussion threads, that this page might have been totally different. It's good to see this mystery closed though speaking as one that never believed Ansom attacked FAQ, but I did support other theories simply because nothing storywise ruled them out and jumping to conclusions, even rational ones, doesn't sit right with me.

The new speculation that Wanda might have orchestrated the fall of Saline is interesting and I'm hoping that Rob and Jamie do explain why Jack didn't turn to follow Jillian. Maybe that predictamancer told Jack that the only way he could save Jillian was to serve Stanley, or something like that. Ahh well, any answer to the Jack question will undoubtedly wait for book two.

Ofc, it seems like a pretty hard feature to code into a game. Imagine in a MMORPG that a NPC said "you are fated to obtain the sword of uberness". How would the programmers actually code it.


I can see someone playing a game. They make a mistake and die, so as they fall down to the ground, the sword of uberness falls right next to his hand. The player reaches to grab the sword, and dies as he touches it.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Wed May 13, 2009 6:09 pm

konmanrocks wrote:all this speculation about jack. isnt it simply possible that when they took the city, that one of the casters did one of the thinkamancy spells to change his loyalty to make him come along. it could be he was simply captured, and brought back to GW and maggie switched his loyalty.


It is certainly possible. It is, just as certainly, uninteresting :D

In stories, we like our scenarios complex and dramatic!!!111 as opposed to the most likely (and therefore usually most prosaic) explanation that tends to be favoured by reality.

Infidel wrote:

Ofc, it seems like a pretty hard feature to code into a game. Imagine in a MMORPG that a NPC said "you are fated to obtain the sword of uberness". How would the programmers actually code it.


I can see someone playing a game. They make a mistake and die, so as they fall down to the ground, the sword of uberness falls right next to his hand. The player reaches to grab the sword, and dies as he touches it.


That solution. It is awesome.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Thydron » Wed May 13, 2009 6:23 pm

Also pretty interesting to see Parson first disagree, and then walk off after being told that he lost - guess he really doesn't want to face the fact Bogroll's dead
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Whispri » Wed May 13, 2009 6:44 pm

SteveMB wrote:
Whispri wrote:According to Jillian mercenary work was only carried out when there was no other way of boosting the treasury, which really does make the window for happenstance sound rather small.

We have no idea how often Faq needed extra funds. Also, each mission would be prolonged by the need to travel to and from a "far-off" side. Additionally, we can be sure that Jillian bent each and every judgment-call situation in the direction of being away from home longer and more often.

Given all that, Faq's only real military force might have been away for a fairly high percentage of turns.

If she spent most of her time doing merc work it would be one of their main sources of income, not a last resort. "When there was no other way" is not something you say to describe something you do most of the time.

If Jillian represented the Croatan's only battle ready force, then however you slice it, timing this buisness to occur while she was away was simply suicidally insane.

kreszantas wrote:Wanda missing a few details should not really matter this makes for cracks in both stories and allows for futher exposition later, if it is all solved now than there will be a less dramatic confrontation later.

Short of Jillian being the spare, very low level, and out with two freshly popped Gwiffons or Banhammer and/or the Predictamancer thinking "Just as planned" as they/he/she was/were toasted...

The Old Hack wrote:
SteveMB wrote:
Whispri wrote:According to Jillian mercenary work was only carried out when there was no other way of boosting the treasury, which really does make the window for happenstance sound rather small.

We have no idea how often Faq needed extra funds. Also, each mission would be prolonged by the need to travel to and from a "far-off" side. Additionally, we can be sure that Jillian bent each and every judgment-call situation in the direction of being away from home longer and more often.

Given all that, Faq's only real military force might have been away for a fairly high percentage of turns.

This also assumes that it was happenstance. I rather doubt that it was; rather, it was Fate.

"De dirigible iz in flames, everybody'z dead, and I've lost my hat." That's the type of plan that's been shown here. So unless this Fate chick caused stupid pills to pop with Wanda's rations, why would she (Wanda) make things worse for the defenders than they needed to be? "I'm fated to survive this battle? I throw away my sword!"
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Thydron » Wed May 13, 2009 6:54 pm

It could also be that Wanda simply didn't know that Stanley would be bringing a ton of dwagons with him & assumed that because she had been Fated to get a Arkentool that Stanley was Fated to die in the attack?

It's a much easier string of event to see happening than Stanley winning, turning to Stanley's side, waiting for his Overlord to die & leave him in charge, summoning a warlord from a different reality & finally getting an arkentool from the commander of a coalition of forces that Stanley pissed off enough to attack him.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby raphfrk » Wed May 13, 2009 7:29 pm

Infidel wrote:
Ofc, it seems like a pretty hard feature to code into a game. Imagine in a MMORPG that a NPC said "you are fated to obtain the sword of uberness". How would the programmers actually code it.


I can see someone playing a game. They make a mistake and die, so as they fall down to the ground, the sword of uberness falls right next to his hand. The player reaches to grab the sword, and dies as he touches it.


With a world like this, it would be possible to keep resetting if fate is thwarted. If Wanda dies before obtaining an Arkentool, reset world state to what it was 10 turns ago, and re-do the random seed. Also, you could play around with the luck settings.

Ofc, that isn't entirely possible in RL :).
Last edited by raphfrk on Wed May 13, 2009 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby BarGamer » Wed May 13, 2009 7:42 pm

raphfrk wrote:Ofc, that isn't entirely possible in RL :).


Great Gatsby! Of course it is! XD
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Aquillion » Wed May 13, 2009 7:46 pm

Whispri wrote:Yeah so, why would Wanda arrange this at a time when Jillian was away with her Gwiffons and the defences of the Capital weaker than normal?
Because she didn't really care. Her belief that her capital would win satisfied the technical requirements of loyalty, but that doesn't mean that she actually had to want her side to win, or care what happened either way.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Infidel » Wed May 13, 2009 8:00 pm

So with the spiderman masks in the background, is predictamancy related to spider sense maybe?
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby seans23 » Wed May 13, 2009 8:17 pm

Infidel wrote:So with the spiderman masks in the background, is predictamancy related to spider sense maybe?


I thought that they were wrestler masks... We saw a guy wearing a similar mask in episode 13: http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F013.jpg
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Mikalyaran » Wed May 13, 2009 8:27 pm

I'm glad we got some solid info about how things went down in FAQ. This whole comic is full of interesting tidbits in fact. The fall of FAQ, Stanley taming a dwagon, Wanda manipulating Stanley and his quest, et cetera. Alot of real solid stuff that ties off lose ends. Then they go and say she serves fate magic :) That pops a whole slew of ideas about how things work doesn't it? Interesting times ahead.

Also, for those postulating that Wanda will now rebel against Stanley, notice how Stanlet of wearing the same colors as the decrypted units? If uniform is any indicator of loyalty then it seems to me that the skull just means they are decrypted and not that they are loyal to Wanda over GK.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby SteveMB » Wed May 13, 2009 8:28 pm

Thydron wrote:It could also be that Wanda simply didn't know that Stanley would be bringing a ton of dwagons with him & assumed that because she had been Fated to get a Arkentool that Stanley was Fated to die in the attack?

She may have had no idea what a real fighting force could do -- her experience was limited to Faq and its "clerks" and perhaps Jillian's war stories (if she bothered to listen to them). Even if she'd seen Stanley or any of his dwagons in person prior to the attack (the latter, especially, strikes me as unlikely), she may not have fully appreciated the significance of their combat stats.

As I noted earlier, that may be why her military knowledge, even if she now understands more than she lets on, is a bit of a sore point.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Thydron » Wed May 13, 2009 10:25 pm

Yeah, something like that. Either way, she clearly states that she "imagined that he would lose, and his artifact would fall [to her]" - whether that's because she underestimated Stanley, overestimated Faq's troops, whatever- it shows pretty clearly that she didn't expect him to win & probably didn't consider contacting him to be betraying Faq.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Aquillion » Wed May 13, 2009 11:43 pm

Actually, now that I think about it, I'm guessing that it's mainly because she misinterpreted the prediction -- she seems to believe pretty heavily in Fate.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby trevron » Thu May 14, 2009 12:09 am

I don't think we can count Stanley out at all, or consider him as dumb as Wanda thinks he is. I see Wanda and her decrypted units booping parson soon bigtime.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby deepfriedspam » Thu May 14, 2009 12:23 am

One thing is clear if nothing else... Wanda is.... complicated.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Infidel » Thu May 14, 2009 2:27 am

Thydron wrote:Yeah, something like that. Either way, she clearly states that she "imagined that he would lose, and his artifact would fall [to her]" - whether that's because she underestimated Stanley, overestimated Faq's troops, whatever- it shows pretty clearly that she didn't expect him to win & probably didn't consider contacting him to be betraying Faq.


This reminds me of people that sell national secrets to England or France and think it's no big deal since they are our allies.

--

You know, when Wanda looks down saying, "Not of me" I can't help but feel that she's feeling a bit of empathy for Parson. In fact, I get a strong empathy vibe from all last 4 panels.

Wanda's "I am loyal to fate magic" brings this into a different perspective. It isn't just some random spell, it's probably her religion.

Rejoice. Dispair.
Fate does not care.
Each knotted mind entwined.
Each soul another's bind.
And blind though we are led.
In time we do know when
To cut a thread.

I wonder where it comes from. A google search only pulls it up in someone's sig.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby teratorn » Thu May 14, 2009 3:57 am

Why does Wanda feel the need to tell all of this to Parson? Why is she exposing herself like this?

It's weird, she's treating Parson like a friend, even a confidant.
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