160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby blackcitadel9 » Thu May 14, 2009 8:53 pm

To be honest, Stanley has no right to be angry at Parson or Wanda. He abandoned them, and he knows it. Despite that, without the power of his Arkentool, they triumphed (sort of) Whereas he, failed to break through the pass and was force to retreat. If it weren't for Jack, he'd probably have met his end there.

Lacking the right and lacking the ability are 2 different things I'll grant you. But if he starts screaming and yelling. I don't think Parson or Wanda will take it this time. As for Duty, Loyalty or Obedience? If Parson can break the rules of the world, I reckon those won't affect him overmuch in this case. He held Gobwin Knob using his own initiative (so it's ruined- big whoop, it can be built anew), he didn't sell out, and he did what he was summoned to do. And it's still possible they don't actually hold any sway over him in the first place.

Hmm...Special(Hidden): Immune to Natural Thinkamancies.

Wait a minute...isn't being able to see unit stats a Natural Magic (Yeah I know, there's difference between Natural Magic and Natural Thinkamancies) effect of Warlords and Casters?

But meh, I'd better stop. I'm probably talking boop...I mean it's kinda sorta already disproven anyway. Since Stanley gives Parson orders, and he obeys, even thought he doesn't want to.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby SteveMB » Thu May 14, 2009 9:07 pm

blackcitadel9 wrote:Lacking the right and lacking the ability are 2 different things I'll grant you. But if he starts screaming and yelling. I don't think Parson or Wanda will take it this time. As for Duty, Loyalty or Obedience? If Parson can break the rules of the world, I reckon those won't affect him overmuch in this case. He held Gobwin Knob using his own initiative (so it's ruined- big whoop, it can be built anew), he didn't sell out, and he did what he was summoned to do. And it's still possible they don't actually hold any sway over him in the first place.


Well, he was forced to laugh at Stanley's lame jokes (until Stanley rescinded the order), and he was unable to speak after Stanley ordered him to shut up (until he exploited a loophole in Stanley's wording). That said, it's possible that his real bond is to Wanda, and he obeyed Stanley because Wanda told him he had to.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby warriortribble » Thu May 14, 2009 9:26 pm

teratorn wrote:We don't know the general feeling about croakamancy and torture in Erfworld. Why would Jetstone need her? The good thing about Stanley is that he can be told what to do.

It can also depend if there is a backstory between the Croatans and Jetstone. The words uttered by Wanda when she fell in the courtyard may not be about Jillian.
Jetstone might not need or even want her, but Jillian has asked her to turn at least twice, and during the second time Gobwin Knob was w/o their leader and seriously booped. So thanks to her toy she would’ve had access to the alliance. And while the Coalition would've been wary of her she would've at least sided with the winning team that had an Arkentool she could try to steal somehow.

Wanda might have issues with Jetstone, but is her hatred so strong she couldn't even pretend to ally with them? Possible I guess, but unusual imo.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Fri May 15, 2009 8:59 am

InInUrForumz wrote:Or, to point on the obvious... Jillian is the sort of fighter to go straight for the enemy group's leader. Stanley had an attuned Arkentool, and (presumably), whoever the mercenary group was going to be fighting didn't have a Tool at all, attuned or not. Staying home would have probably been MUCH more dangerous for her.


Attacking Stanley directly would have been the best thing. Croaking the chief warlord would have delted all the bonus to all the GK troops in the hex and would have made his personal stack very vulnerable. Assuming that Jillian was the chief warlord herself at the time her absence neglected a lot of bonus to the Faq troops. Not to mention the fact that Jillian probably took the strongest flying troops with her, if not all.
My conclusion: Wanda really booped up. She overestimated her faction and greatly underestimated Stanley. He may be not the greatest strategic, but he knows how to crush a city.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby gameboy1234 » Fri May 15, 2009 1:28 pm

nerf-dweller wrote:
BarGamer wrote:Now check out the close ups of Jack on page 110. What's one defining visual characteristic of Jack's that's apparent? His wild looking hair. He's got cowlicks sticking up everywhere. Look at the long shot of Jack in panel 2 of page 144. See the wild hair. Now look back to panel 3 of page 82. Look carefully at the hair of the man kneeling immediately to the left of Banhammer. Wild hair. If that's not Jack, I'll be Stanley's lackey for next book two.



While I don't disagree with your conclusion, I just wanted to add one picture of Jack in his working clothes. He's wearing a hat, and the hair style isn't obvious, but that's what he wore. I think those green robes everyone is wearing might just be a Faq or Banhammer thing.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby gameboy1234 » Fri May 15, 2009 1:38 pm

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:My conclusion: Wanda really booped up. She overestimated her faction and greatly underestimated Stanley. He may be not the greatest strategic, but he knows how to crush a city.



Also a thought on this point: I agree that the best strategy had Jillain been at Faq during the attack would be for Jillain to attack Stanley directly. Jillain might have croaked saving the city. So, Wanda, who seems to have been friends with Jillain, waited until Jillian was way out in the field before contacting Stanley.

Wanda may have thought Faq would prevail, but I'm sure she knew some units under Faq would be croaked, and Wanda didn't want those units to include Jillian.

My 2 schmuckers.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Sethram » Fri May 15, 2009 1:54 pm

The masks on the wall aren't Spiderman or Strongbad like I've seen people speculate. They're more in line with Japanese Tokusatsu series. They resemble the masks in Kamen Rider the most if you ask me.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby nerf-dweller » Fri May 15, 2009 2:03 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:
Welf von Ehrwald wrote:My conclusion: Wanda really booped up. She overestimated her faction and greatly underestimated Stanley. He may be not the greatest strategic, but he knows how to crush a city.



Also a thought on this point: I agree that the best strategy had Jillain been at Faq during the attack would be for Jillain to attack Stanley directly. Jillain might have croaked saving the city. So, Wanda, who seems to have been friends with Jillain, waited until Jillian was way out in the field before contacting Stanley.

Wanda may have thought Faq would prevail, but I'm sure she knew some units under Faq would be croaked, and Wanda didn't want those units to include Jillian.

My 2 schmuckers.


It may well by that Faq couldn't stop Stanley even if they hadn't been surprised. Faq's major defense had been their seclusion and secrecy. The Predicamancer and Jack were the frontline defense to maintain Faq's secrecy. Faq fell because the Predicamancer didn't foresee Wanda's actions which lead to bringing Stanley to bear on Faq or failed to act if she did know. On any event, Faq's primary defense failed, and Banhammer's standing army of "clerks" wasn't up to the job of defending the kingdom.

It may be the Predicamancer did foresee Wanda's actions, Stanley laying seige the kingdom, and the ill-timing of Jill's forces (the only decent fighting force of kingdom) being away playing mercenary. But the Natural Thinkamancy prevent the Pedictamancer from being able do anything to alter that destiny. Or it may be a code of conduct that Predicamnacers have to prevent the Fate of things and people to happen. And along this like, I'd really line to know about Predictamancers and how much they can or can't influence the future via thier action/inaction.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby teratorn » Fri May 15, 2009 2:13 pm

A poster by the name of afu posted in the GiTP forum something that may be important
in this thing about Faq being or not the site of the Croatan tribe. Wanda is a master class
croakamancer, how did she get to such a rank if all she did was to sit around and discuss
philosophy?

Jack was master class also but at least he was being put to good use.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Infidel » Fri May 15, 2009 2:25 pm

gameboy1234 wrote:
While I don't disagree with your conclusion, I just wanted to add one picture of Jack in his working clothes. He's wearing a hat, and the hair style isn't obvious, but that's what he wore. I think those green robes everyone is wearing might just be a Faq or Banhammer thing.


Both the Japanese and Chinese court dress used a variety of hat styles. Considering that Chinese court dress was generally significantly ornate and Jack's outfit is rather simple, my guess is some variation or interpretation of Japanese court dress. This also goes with Jillian's green armor looking a lot like Japanese loricated wood armor that samurai were known to wear.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby jamie » Fri May 15, 2009 2:27 pm

Sethram wrote:The masks on the wall aren't Spiderman or Strongbad like I've seen people speculate. They're more in line with Japanese Tokusatsu series. They resemble the masks in Kamen Rider the most if you ask me.


A winnar is you! There's Kamen Rider under the balloon which you can't see, there's Ultraman, and there's MagiRed from Mahou Sentai Magiranger. There's another Tokusatsu reference way early in Erfworld. You get a nice "no-prize" if you can spot it.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby nerf-dweller » Fri May 15, 2009 2:30 pm

Another thought I had after Wanda and Parson's little heart-to-heart talk, what is Fate's plan for Parson. Two of the Arkentools are now controls by the same side, however shaky it is. Parson is still under geas to Stanley. Stanley still may be on his quest for the Arkentools. If Wanda won't be driving him, I suspect that Ansom will be. With Wanda saying that Parson didn't wish for his current predicament, but instead, it was the World wishing for him. I suspect the world wants someone to "win" the game. I get the impression that the World is somehow incomplete or stuck in a certain state/mode. From the libraries of past battles, it seems the World have been constantly in conflict. I think the World is wanting someone to "win" the game once and for all. End the Age of Conflict and let a new Age begin whatever form it will take. Parson has a long road in front of him and a lot of struggles ahead, but I think all of the events in Book 1 are the setup for Parson and crew's ultimate fate as the Winners of the Game. The goal of getting all of the Arkentools seems to be central to accomplish this.

After Maggie, Wanda and Sizemore link up to uncroak the volcano, I started thinking about certain things. Sizemore and Wanda seem like opposites in terms of casters. Wanda has tremendous potential as a caster, but lacks any motivation to reach her ultimate potential. Sizemore on the other hand, has lots of knowledge and motiviation, but lacks the skills. From the reactions of the Erflings and Sizemore's feels and actions ("I actually the modified terrain type, like a Titan"). The gestalt-caster was able something only the Titans could do.

Now let's supposed that all of the Arkentools are ultimately together and used for common purpose. What if Charlie (a Thinkamancer I'm assuming for now) attuned to the Arkendisk, Wanda who's atuned to the Akenpliers, Stanley who is attuned to the Arkenhammers, and a 4th who will be attuned to the 4th Arkentool are joined together as cast link. Imagine what the gestalt accomplish. Perhaps remake the world to break out of the Age of Continual Conflight? (Yea I know 3 is supposed to the limit for caster linkups. But why can't the Arkendish allow that rule to be broken?)
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby teratorn » Fri May 15, 2009 3:21 pm

Whispri wrote:The eyes have it,


There are lot of characters with earth-like eyes, namely a few of the warlords in Stanley's side:
Manpower has them, Lady Phat-Singh has them, the Archduke has them. Curiously or not,
Manpower has erfian eyes in later pages.

One of the casters in page 13 also has earth-like eyes.The shady-elf lady in page 21
also seems to have them but the resolution is too poor to be sure about that.

The titan poster in Parson's room (is that Jamie?) also has regular eyes.

And we have Faqians with "typical" erfian eyes fighing alongside Jillian in page 82.

I'm not sure the eyes mean that much.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Lothmar » Fri May 15, 2009 3:48 pm

I find it odd that you dont see the predictamancer in Stanleys service, I think she knew what was going to happen and either simply left or was killed in the invasion; But titans knows why Stanley or his forces would kill such a valuable asset on purpose.

Im trying to imagine how dangerous a masterclass predictamancer would have been at Stanleys side and if they would be in their current status.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Infidel » Fri May 15, 2009 3:49 pm

I don't think a disloyal predictamancer would be helpful at all. It would be like hiring an assassin from the other team to be your personal cook.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby raphfrk » Fri May 15, 2009 3:56 pm

nerf-dweller wrote:Yea I know 3 is supposed to the limit for caster linkups. But why can't the Arkendish allow that rule to be broken?


That seems reasonable, Charlie + Dish counts as an uber Thinkamancer. A 4 caster linkup should be easy for him. Ofc, he might not like the loss of individuality. It might end up being an imbalanced link where one of the four was dominant, instead of a merging.

What about a two level link-up, something like

Link 1: 3 Thinkamancers (acts as central 'node)

Link 2: Thinkamancer + 2 others

Link 3: Thinkamancer + 2 others

The first link then forms a linkup with the other 2. It is a link-up of 3 link-ups.

This gets you the power of nine casters and 5 different disciplines. Alternatively, maybe there is no need for the 3 Thinkamancer one, that would give 7 disciplines and nine casters.

Alternatively, I wonder if a powerful Thinkamancer (or maybe a 3 Thinkamancer link-up) could create a scroll that will cast the link-up spell.

This would allow 3 casters to form a link-up without the need for one of them to be a Thinkamancer. This might require someone like Wanda who can cast spells outside her discipline effectively. However, she could still consider herself a Croakamancer for the purposes of what skills are added to the link-up.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Welf von Ehrwald » Fri May 15, 2009 4:09 pm

Lothmar wrote:I find it odd that you dont see the predictamancer in Stanleys service, I think she knew what was going to happen and either simply left or was killed in the invasion; But titans knows why Stanley or his forces would kill such a valuable asset on purpose.

Im trying to imagine how dangerous a masterclass predictamancer would have been at Stanleys side and if they would be in their current status.


Maybe she is still there, along with other Faq units. If Stanley only croaked Banhammer, raided all valuables and flew away, some hiding units could have survived, now freezed in time.

And the theory that Wanda wasn't originally from Faq has something. There is no proof, but that it was never explicitly stated that she was popped in Faq is suspicious.
Some wild guessing: Maybe we will learn about some really dirty secrets about Banhammer and Faq. Maybe there was a time when Banhammer was less peaceful.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby Lothmar » Fri May 15, 2009 4:39 pm

Welf von Ehrwald wrote:
Maybe she is still there, along with other Faq units. If Stanley only croaked Banhammer, raided all valuables and flew away, some hiding units could have survived, now freezed in time.


I thought Jillian was the heir to faq though. That particular side is still active, they're just now labled 'barbarians' if I recall correctly from the coalition listings. So that means either the predictamancer was (a) killed (b) disbanded due to inability to pay upkeep (c) Deserted or returned to magic kingdom (d) other.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby gameboy1234 » Fri May 15, 2009 9:24 pm

Infidel wrote:...my guess is some variation or interpretation of Japanese court dress. This also goes with Jillian's green armor looking a lot like Japanese loricated wood armor that samurai were known to wear.



Yes, I was thinking about mentioning that, but it didn't seem too important since the rest of Faq looks very feudal Japanese. Jack's outfit reminds me of Sai from Hikaru no Go, which is definitely Japanese. With Jamie's comment right after yours, I'd say it's a slam-dunk that that Faq's look is styled after feudal Japan.
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Re: 160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

Postby gameboy1234 » Fri May 15, 2009 9:33 pm

jamie wrote:There's another Tokusatsu reference way early in Erfworld. You get a nice "no-prize" if you can spot it.


Let's see if I can claim a no-prize:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0013.html

Fifth panel, caster on the bottom left.
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