160 The battle for Gobwin Knob, page 147

[Frogpop]

Let's see if I can claim a no-prize:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0013.html
Fifth panel, caster on the bottom left.

seans23 already answered that question (before it was asked!) on page 3 of this thread..

We saw a guy wearing a similar mask in episode 13: http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F013.jpg

Sorry!

[InInUrForumz]

Yea I know 3 is supposed to the limit for caster linkups. But why can't the Arkendish allow that rule to be broken?

That seems reasonable, Charlie + Dish counts as an uber Thinkamancer. A 4 caster linkup should be easy for him. Ofc, he might not like the loss of individuality. It might end up being an imbalanced link where one of the four was dominant, instead of a merging.

What about a two level link-up, something like

Link 1: 3 Thinkamancers (acts as central 'node)

Link 2: Thinkamancer + 2 others

Link 3: Thinkamancer + 2 others

The first link then forms a linkup with the other 2. It is a link-up of 3 link-ups.

This gets you the power of nine casters and 5 different disciplines. Alternatively, maybe there is no need for the 3 Thinkamancer one, that would give 7 disciplines and nine casters.

Alternatively, I wonder if a powerful Thinkamancer (or maybe a 3 Thinkamancer link-up) could create a scroll that will cast the link-up spell.

This would allow 3 casters to form a link-up without the need for one of them to be a Thinkamancer. This might require someone like Wanda who can cast spells outside her discipline effectively. However, she could still consider herself a Croakamancer for the purposes of what skills are added to the link-up.

If there's one thing we know with absolute certainty about the Tools, it's that they break established rules. Noone can uncroak certain types of units...but the pliers can. Noone can hack eyebooks...but the Arkendish can. When you're talking about gathering the Tools, the 3 caster rule is essentially meaningless.

[Welf von Ehrwald]

I thought Jillian was the heir to faq though. That particular side is still active, they're just now labled 'barbarians' if I recall correctly from the coalition listings. So that means either the predictamancer was (a) killed (b) disbanded due to inability to pay upkeep (c) Deserted or returned to magic kingdom (d) other.

Parsons klog only anywers what happens when a ruler croakes without a heir; but it doesn't determine what happens to the city when there is a heir. What is definite, is that all field units disband, except those who where with the heir. I assume that also in the case with an heir out there the city freezes.

It would make sense if it was possible to create an 4-caster link with the arkentools. A 3-link is the maximum what can be done with mundane means, 4 is needs divine means.

[raphfrk]

Parsons klog only anywers what happens when a ruler croakes without a heir; but it doesn't determine what happens to the city when there is a heir. What is definite, is that all field units disband, except those who where with the heir.

How do we know that? Maybe Faq didn't have any field units (other than Jillian's). It would seem reasonable that if a Ruler dies, power is instantly transferred to the Heir.

[moose o death]

4 is unthinkable not impossible

3 is dangerous

2 i would imagine is pointless apart from boosting the power level of the second caster

1 is creepy, "the thinkamancer is connecting with himself again"

i'd imagine 4 will factor in the second book at some point as yet another crazy stunt pulled by parson, keeping in mind how unadventurous the general erf population is, the very concept would blow their minds.

[blackcitadel9]

Parsons klog only anywers what happens when a ruler croakes without a heir; but it doesn't determine what happens to the city when there is a heir. What is definite, is that all field units disband, except those who where with the heir.

How do we know that? Maybe Faq didn't have any field units (other than Jillian's). It would seem reasonable that if a Ruler dies, power is instantly transferred to the Heir.

From what I can piece together, a side ends if it loses it's capital, or if it loses it's ruler. If they have an heir, it's up to them whether they restart the old side or create their own. If the heir wasn't at the capital (specifically the capital) when it was taken or the ruler is croaked, then they become a barbarian, and all other field units disband as normal. Cities owned by the side that ended become "neutral"

I don't believe power shifts immediately to the heir, because Jillian became a barbarian, and Stanley had to retake Gobwin Knob when King Saline was croaked, before he became Overlord

Does that sound right?

[Welf von Ehrwald]

It would seem reasonable that if a Ruler dies, power is instantly transferred to the Heir.

No, that doesn't happen. A faction needs both a ruler and a city. We know that Jillian became barbarian after Banhammer died. And we know that Stabley would be a barbarian after his capital falls.

[raphfrk]

No, that doesn't happen. A faction needs both a ruler and a city. We know that Jillian became barbarian after Banhammer died. And we know that Stabley would be a barbarian after his capital falls.

OK fair enough, but Jillian had no cities and neither would Stanley if GK fell.

However, his side had many cities other than GK, when Saline died. Loss of all field units if the Ruler dies when the Heir is not in the capital is a pretty harsh penalty.

Loss of the capital may cause all other cities to freeze until the capital is retaken, or maybe capturing a capital causes all of that side's cities to switch to your side.

In civilisation 1, loss of the capital can cause a civ to split in 2. Maybe that is what causes new sides.

[Welf von Ehrwald]

My guess is, that all the minor cities freeze until the capital is retaken. Maybe a heir has to be only in any city and can appoint it to the capital if the old one is captured.
We don't know how much the dissolving of the field units affects a side. If 90% percent of the units are usually outside the cities, it's really harsh, if only 10%, then it's not so much. And if the capital falls and/or the ruler is croaked, the factions is probably already defeated, so it doesn't matter anyway.

But in the end, we don't know.

[The Old Hack]

We don't know how much the dissolving of the field units affects a side. If 90% percent of the units are usually outside the cities, it's really harsh, if only 10%, then it's not so much.

If it happens to be during the side running an offensive war, it would be a true master stroke by the defender unless the heir apparent is accompanying the troops. For example, the Royal Coalition loses all its Sofa King units at a stroke. Ouch. And even if the heir is present, she/he still needs to get the upkeep from somewhere.

[Welf von Ehrwald]

If it happens to be during the side running an offensive war, it would be a true master stroke by the defender unless the heir apparent is accompanying the troops. For example, the Royal Coalition loses all its Sofa King units at a stroke. Ouch. And even if the heir is present, she/he still needs to get the upkeep from somewhere.

Serves them well, I say, if they let their enemy marach towards their capital. To attack a capital they need a lot of sieges to penetrate the wall. Sieges have low move, so the defending side should have enough time to allocate some defenders. And they always should have some garrison in reserve for that case.
The only side who could destroy a complete side in one turn was Gobwin knob with their dwagons, the table and the bracers. Spy the capital, then send the dwagons when they have few troops around, calculate the odds, send the dwagons to strike. Only Chraley has the chance for a similar tactic with his archons.

[The Old Hack]

I was postulating a master stroke by an inspired leader a la Parson. Also, we do not know that GK and Charlescomm are the only sides capable of such moves. As we have already seen, Transylvito can do scary things with their air force as well. Too, the table was not the only way of getting reliable info, any Lookamancer could scan enemy capitals quite readily as well. For example.

Though I agree with you that it would serve them right. And from history, many leaders have been capable of massive stupidities, so not that unrealistic.

[Whispri]

As for Jillian, why would she be more likely to get heself killed in this battle as opposed to the battle she was prostituting her Gwiffons to? And if Wanda thought it was too dangerous, why expect a victory at all?

If Jillian got herself croaked on one of her mercenary missions, it wouldn't be Wanda's fault. If she got herself croaked fighting Stanley's invasion, it would be Wanda's fault. That's what she might have been unwilling to risk.

Because of course an imbecile would be too much for Jillian to handle. Calling down the wrath of the Arkenhammer at a time of weakness 'cause Jilly might break a nail? Madness. Expecting to win is no excuse for making that victory harder on any grounds, let alone the grounds that someone might be hurt.

As for Jillian, why would she be more likely to get heself killed in this battle as opposed to the battle she was prostituting her Gwiffons to? And if Wanda thought it was too dangerous, why expect a victory at all?

If Jillian got herself croaked on one of her mercenary missions, it wouldn't be Wanda's fault. If she got herself croaked fighting Stanley's invasion, it would be Wanda's fault. That's what she might have been unwilling to risk.

Or, to point on the obvious... Jillian is the sort of fighter to go straight for the enemy group's leader. Stanley had an attuned Arkentool, and (presumably), whoever the mercenary group was going to be fighting didn't have a Tool at all, attuned or not. Staying home would have probably been MUCH more dangerous for her.

Apparantly Wanda thought his attunement and Warlordhood would be no match for Faq's clerks, how could she think that if it was too risky for her girl?

Or, to point on the obvious... Jillian is the sort of fighter to go straight for the enemy group's leader. Stanley had an attuned Arkentool, and (presumably), whoever the mercenary group was going to be fighting didn't have a Tool at all, attuned or not. Staying home would have probably been MUCH more dangerous for her.

Attacking Stanley directly would have been the best thing. Croaking the chief warlord would have delted all the bonus to all the GK troops in the hex and would have made his personal stack very vulnerable. Assuming that Jillian was the chief warlord herself at the time her absence neglected a lot of bonus to the Faq troops. Not to mention the fact that Jillian probably took the strongest flying troops with her, if not all.
My conclusion: Wanda really booped up. She overestimated her faction and greatly underestimated Stanley. He may be not the greatest strategic, but he knows how to crush a city.

Indeedy, to the point of SOD Booping, "Why on Erf would anyone in their right minds do that?" level idiocy, it just makes no sense at all.

We don't know the general feeling about croakamancy and torture in Erfworld. Why would Jetstone need her? The good thing about Stanley is that he can be told what to do.

It can also depend if there is a backstory between the Croatans and Jetstone. The words uttered by Wanda when she fell in the courtyard may not be about Jillian.

Jetstone might not need or even want her, but Jillian has asked her to turn at least twice, and during the second time Gobwin Knob was w/o their leader and seriously booped. So thanks to her toy she would’ve had access to the alliance. And while the Coalition would've been wary of her she would've at least sided with the winning team that had an Arkentool she could try to steal somehow.

Wanda might have issues with Jetstone, but is her hatred so strong she couldn't even pretend to ally with them? Possible I guess, but unusual imo.

Ansom really didn't seem keen on them. That would count for a lot, as would Wanda's likely huge upkeep costs.

The eyes have it,

There are lot of characters with earth-like eyes, namely a few of the warlords in Stanley's side:
Manpower has them, Lady Phat-Singh has them, the Archduke has them. Curiously or not,
Manpower has erfian eyes in later pages.

One of the casters in page 13 also has earth-like eyes.The shady-elf lady in page 21
also seems to have them but the resolution is too poor to be sure about that.

The titan poster in Parson's room (is that Jamie?) also has regular eyes.

And we have Faqians with "typical" erfian eyes fighing alongside Jillian in page 82.

I'm not sure the eyes mean that much.

Ah yes, units serving a side known to have taken in Croatan units, a place where Barbarian Casters hang out, and of course a Picture of a God, it's not exactly crushing to the physical and cultural similarities beteen the known survivors of Faq. As for the Shady Elves, it's hard to tell, but so what if she has? Wanda and company aren't Elves.
As for Jilly's flashbaq pages, I'll note the whites of Jillians own eyes aren't visible in that panel, and indeed nor are Wanda's in her panel.

It does seem likely that Tribes or bloodlines (poplines?) can spread beyond the confines of a single Kingdom however, so...

[Matty]

I've been rereading from the beginning over the past few days and something just hit me (though I'm not sure if anyone's pointed it out).

The Dwagon we see Stanley taming in panel 2 of this comic (presumably just after he receives the arkenhammer), is that the same dwagon he seems to favour throughout the strip? On pages 32-33 he's seen riding a red dwagon, and in his and Jack's recent vie for FAQ he's riding a red dwagon. If it is the same dwagon, then perhaps Stanley is a little more... sentimental than ever previously thought

[Binty]

If it is the same dwagon, then perhaps Stanley is a little more... sentimental than ever previously thought

If it is his original it is likely to highest level...

[raphfrk]

If it is his original it is likely to highest level...

Also, I think red dragons are the strongest and are fire breathing.

[seans23]

The Dwagon we see Stanley taming in panel 2 of this comic (presumably just after he receives the arkenhammer)

I'm not sure that's the moment being illustrated in that comic. I think Wanda is communicating with him via that dragon. Note the dragon's glowing eyes. If he had just found the hammer and is taming the dragon, why does one of the other dragons in that panel already have a mount?

[SteveMB]

The Dwagon we see Stanley taming in panel 2 of this comic (presumably just after he receives the arkenhammer)

I'm not sure that's the moment being illustrated in that comic. I think Wanda is communicating with him via that dragon. Note the dragon's glowing eyes. If he had just found the hammer and is taming the dragon, why does one of the other dragons in that panel already have a mount?

The dwagon's eyes and the Arkenhammer are both glowing, which suggests to me that he's taming it. There's no particular reason the Arkenhammer would be directly involved in Wanda sending Stanley a message.

The overall impression I get is that this may be the first batch of dwagons Stanley tamed, which is why he looks a bit tentative and unsure of himself.

[warriortribble]

Ansom really didn't seem keen on them. That would count for a lot, as would Wanda's likely huge upkeep costs.

Perhaps I've just read things too hastily, but who are you refering to when you say "them"?

[The Old Hack]

Ansom really didn't seem keen on them. That would count for a lot, as would Wanda's likely huge upkeep costs.

Perhaps I've just read things too hastily, but who are you refering to when you say "them"?

Errr, Uncroaked in general, maybe? He referred to them as abominations.