Page 42 and the Archons' move

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Page 42 and the Archons' move

Postby raphfrk » Thu May 14, 2009 9:53 am

(Maybe a slight nitpick :) ), anyway, I was going through working out what turn/side each page is and noticed that on page 42, it has just switched from GK's turn to the RCC turn.

Charlie calls his Archons and tells them that they are allied with RCC and to go meet Jillian/Webinar.

However, Charlies should have already taken his turn for that day, so the archons wouldn't be able to move.

On panel 1, it shows the sun setting and panel 3 shows them arriving with Jillian. The next few pages are then that night.

One possible option is that the archons don't move until the start of the next turn (after Parson has launched his donut of death attack) and panel 3 is just a flash forward. They would be moving to Jillian while Ansom is launching his counter attack.

However, that means that the archons would have to spend move to get to Jillian and then they would still have had move left to get to the wounded dwagons.

Evidence for that is that Jillian has 52 move but says all units with 24+ move to follow her when she actually ditches Webinar and heads for the donut. But, that means that the Achons would have enough move to get to Jillian, perform a small search and still have 24 (or more) move left.
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Re: Page 42 and the Archons' move

Postby The Old Hack » Thu May 14, 2009 11:25 am

raphfrk wrote:Evidence for that is that Jillian has 52 move but says all units with 24+ move to follow her when she actually ditches Webinar and heads for the donut. But, that means that the Achons would have enough move to get to Jillian, perform a small search and still have 24 (or more) move left.

Hmmm. Two possibilities I can think of off hand:

One, it is possible to wait before taking one's Turn. Useful if one is not currently in a state of war nor in pressing need of shoring up a weak position. Those playing the waiting game would just not take their Turn before afternoon or late evening, staying in readiness for unexpected developments such as attack or new Allies calling for help. This might be an ability limited by such factors as the presence of potentially hostile units in one's Battlespace, Chief Warlord strategic ability and so forth. (In the classic Empires at Arms boardgame, the most politically dominant country -- usually France -- could decide when to take its turn each month. This allowed that country the powerful double move option by moving last one turn and first the next.)

Two, they had that much Move and were lurking specifically on the edge of the conflict in the hopes of either being hired or getting a valuable target of opportunity presented to them.
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Re: Page 42 and the Archons' move

Postby Bobby Archer » Thu May 14, 2009 3:18 pm

Charlie actually formed the alliance with the RCC the day before. At the end of the RCC's previous turn, Ansom asked someone to "get me Charlie" (http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F034.jpg last panel). He likely made his offer to Charlie then. The next few pages cover the night after the RCC's turn. The next day, on Gobwin Knob's turn, they drop off Jillian, she meets up with Webinar (as a prisoner, she moves on GK's turn), then on the RCC's next turn, Charlie's Archons move to rendezvous with Jillian and Webinar. Charlie was on the RCC's turn.
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Re: Page 42 and the Archons' move

Postby Kreistor » Tue May 19, 2009 12:42 pm

raphfrk wrote:On panel 1, it shows the sun setting and panel 3 shows them arriving with Jillian. The next few pages are then that night.


Panel 1 has to be artistic license. For Charlescomm to ally and move with Jetstone, they have to have not moved yet by the time Jetstone takes turn. Ansom doesn't know he'll need them until after GK forms the plan, which happens at dawn. Then, when Jillian has contacted Ansom, he sends for Charlie. Charlie must not have moved yet, and so can then join turn with Jetstone.

Unless... there's some exception rules for joining an alliance when you're not in the turn order. If your side has begun turn and later in that turn allies, but it is still your turn because you were out of the turn order, then from that point on, all units must complete move during the new turn position. It's not a problem to start a turn earlier, if there's no combat involved.

The one exception is Panel 1. The sunrise/sunset is out of time.
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Re: Page 42 and the Archons' move

Postby Bobby Archer » Tue May 19, 2009 5:59 pm

I think the main confusion with the first few panels of page 42 is this: just because Charlie is telling his archons about their alliance with Jetstone at dawn does not mean that this is when the formation of the alliance occurred. During the previous day, we see Ansom ordering someone to put him in communication with Charlie (page 34). The simplest explanation is that the alliance was made on Jetstone's turn, before night. The next day (which begins on page 38), Charlie is no longer on the turn beginning at dawn and he explains to his Loyal archons why. This does put panel 1 of page 42 slightly out of time, as we've already seen GK taking their turn, but the shot of the archons silhouetted in the sunrise is worth it. In any case, panel 3 shows the archons arriving when the sun is high in the sky, suggesting Jetstone's turn.

You don't need any special alliance or turn rules to explain this. Charlie allied with Jetstone on Day X. On Day X+1, GK releases Jillian on their turn (still first in the day, since Charlie is allied with Jetstone), Charlie's Archons rendezvous with Jillian and Webinar on Jetstone's turn.
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Re: Page 42 and the Archons' move

Postby Bahamuttone » Thu May 21, 2009 5:16 pm

what about the thing about battlespace?
I think that the turn order is relevant ONLY when other faction are within "Battlespace"[whatever that means] so if Charlsecomm is not allied with anyone and not engaged in any other battle it is more or less ALWAYS their turn, as it seem to be the case for GK now.
As soon as an engagement start the day get split among the faction present in the relevant battlespace [that may be the area under control of one faction that get invaded by the other.]
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Re: Page 42 and the Archons' move

Postby Bobby Archer » Thu May 21, 2009 6:11 pm

Bahamuttone wrote:what about the thing about battlespace?


The way I picture the "in our battlespace" question working is this: Imagine all the sides are being played by players in a tabletop game. The guy playing Charlie's side has the first turn of the "day". He's busy way over in his own territory and isn't really interacting with the other players' armies. So, he turns to the guy playing Gobwin Knob (who has the next turn) and says, "I'm not doing anything that affects you on my turn. You can go ahead and start taking your turn while I finish up." The turn order is maintained, but Gobwin Knob and Charlescomm act essentially simultaneously.

This keeps us from having to hypothesize some definition of "battlespace" that allows Charlie's archons to be outside of that battlespace while still having RCC and Gobwin Knob units within their move range (and thus, being able to attack them).
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