Book 2 – Text Updates 018

[Frogpop]

Hilary as in Duff, all pop singers, save Paris

If only that were true..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_(Paris_Hilton_album)

[Ninjaguineapig]

Am I the only one who found Hilary's creepy emotional dependence on Charlie just a bit disturbing? It's humanizing and dehumanizing at the same time.

Well, archons aren't exactly humans. They are units popped from the power of the Arkendish, and are (likely) fanatically loyal to the Attuned (Charlie). Also, unlike Ansom, Hilary never was independent. From the moment she popped she was completely bound to Charlie, both mentally and emotionally. I imagine that she (and the other archons) are more fanatical than the decrypted because they've never been anything else. Ansom, Sylvia and all the other decrypted have personalities that go beyond Wanda.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Good update, but I was a little underwhelmed by being hit over the head with all the obvious pop Diva names. A little more subtlety would have been more effective imho.

I take it this update has made you ... a Stressed Tensor?

*dodges flying boots*

What?! We've had an OVER-9000 joke.

[Aesius]

"There was a pause, then the image in the Archon's hands flickered, first to a ghostly female face, then to a very familiar scene."

I wonder what the "ghostly female face" was.

[Ditto]

Ghostly female face = the Operator at Charlescomm's Thinkagram switchboard, passing the broadcast to the archon stationed outside Haggar's capital.

There you have it, Bland - the ranged link-up meant the Arkendish was otherwise out of play for the duration. That doesn't just mean the archons are squiffy (which counts as a disadvantage, yes) but also that they have to rely on the archon's natural-Thinkamancy network for communication, which is limited by the (not inconsiderable) number of archons manning the 'switchboard'. Without the arkendish on their side, Charlescomm is a nobody. Taking the arkendish out of play for even one turn is a significant investment - and risk - if Charlie hasn't got his spy network set up just-so to run the shop while his brain is otherwise occupied.

That said, he's flippin' *Charlie*, so of course he has back-up plans. That's not a DEM, that's kickass planning.

[Keldaria]

... soo does anyone else want parson to turn to charlies side? I can only imagine the kind of havok he could do with all the intelligence charlie could provide him.

I just love how charlie is turning everyone into a pawn in his giant chess game. Altho parson is literally the only person in erfworld that knows how to play the game against charlie. I strongly suspect and look forward to the inevitable face off between parson and charlie.

[Raza]

He might even be able to spam a single message to all of them, phrased so that it sounds like it's just for them.
For example: "Don't ever tell the others, but you've always been my favorite."

I... could actually see Charlie doing that...

I couldn't. He's not the type that spins lies that could be exposed by people talking to eachother; he's the type that goes into elaborate explanation as to why he can't say certain things that people might expect from him due to conversational form. Maybe not to his archons, because he doesn't need to, but that lack of necessity applies to flattering lies as well.

I wonder if the "blackout" was because the Arkendish was used to make a Caster link? The timing fits. Ditto with "situation." The situation was his Archons being croaked in the field because their veils were blown.

Now, if Sammy were Parson, he'd call that bluff. After all, Charlie is notoriously cost conscious, and it requires fewer veiled Archons to scout out a city versus having enough to take it outright. And even if he did, it would prove that Charlie was anti-Royal, which Charlie doesn't want. Finally, Sammy isn't a fan of his father, so nothing lost there, and if the capital does fall, he goes Barbarian... but a shot to take Jetstone outright and found a new side.

Sounds a lot like the link required the blackout. Which should finally shut up the kingworld discussion, thank the titans.

Well, archons aren't exactly humans. They are units popped from the power of the Arkendish, and are (likely) fanatically loyal to the Attuned (Charlie). Also, unlike Ansom, Hilary never was independent. From the moment she popped she was completely bound to Charlie, both mentally and emotionally. I imagine that she (and the other archons) are more fanatical than the decrypted because they've never been anything else. Ansom, Sylvia and all the other decrypted have personalities that go beyond Wanda.

Aaiunno. I daresay the original three archons displayed individual personality, much like humans, especially when given the chance to interact with more-or-less equals.

Archons have a lot of things in common that define their unit type. They're the corporate western ideal of an employable young female; classically pretty and well groomed, eager to please, polite, hard-working, satisfied being kept at the bottom of the chain of command no matter how well they do their jobs and perfectly willing to extend that attitude into their personal lives, but with just enough Hollywood sass and toughness to feel like a challenge. The secretary of every boss's dreams.

This is an aspect of their theme as a unit type, but within that (admittedly somewhat narrow) spectrum they definitely have individual personalities. Moreover, personalities in erfworld seem to develop a lot as their mechanical characters progress; warlords and casters gain individuality as they gain experience, even when initially promoted from a mass of infantry that thinks like Wiggly the stabber. I expect that Chalie's top archons are much the same.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Sounds a lot like the link required the blackout. Which should finally shut up the kingworld discussion, thank the titans.

What is this Kingworld that you speak of?

But seriously much as I want to ignore it, it just keeps pullin me back in. To wit,

There you have it, Bland - the ranged link-up meant the Arkendish was otherwise out of play for the duration. That doesn't just mean the archons are squiffy (which counts as a disadvantage, yes) but also that they have to rely on the archon's natural-Thinkamancy network for communication, which is limited by the (not inconsiderable) number of archons manning the 'switchboard'. Without the arkendish on their side, Charlescomm is a nobody.

This update provides a very good comparison between what I'd call fake and true costs. Where again cost is some umbrella term for making something difficult to use (can be resource requirements, ethics, personal sacrifice etc).

Charlie apparently sent a lot of archons on risky missions. He does that all the time but usually those are mercenary missions, for which he gets loads of moolah.

What he's been doing lately with his Archons is definitely not his usual MO. Stepping out of that comfort zone- nice for us to read about. It's also natural to assume that Charlie won't risk his Archons like this often.

The other thing is the arken-link-up, whatever it may have been up to *cough*. The inconvenience for a one-turn link-up was what? That Archons felt a bit queasy about it? They had their orders, Charlie was out of commission for just the amount of time that it wouldn't have mattered (he did not actually miss that many turns and occasions to issue orders).

That is not enough to explain why Charlie wouldn't do links as often as necessary for whatever nefarious goal. He doesn't even need Archons in the field for those to work.

PS:

Archons have a lot of things in common that define their unit type. They're the corporate western ideal of an employable young female; classically pretty and well groomed, eager to please, polite, hard-working, satisfied being kept at the bottom of the chain of command no matter how well they do their jobs and perfectly willing to extend that attitude into their personal lives, but with just enough Hollywood sass and toughness to feel like a challenge. The secretary of every boss's dreams.

That's a nice write-up actually, but it contains one of my knee-jerk button-words ("western").

Ahem. So I take it that the eastern corporate ideal for employable young female is much the same, only without the sass and toughness?

[The Black Hand]

I have only one thing to say about this.

Charlie . . . you, sir, are truly a Magnificent Bastard!

(Yeah, I linked it to TVTropes. So sue me.)

[Ansan Gotti]

This update provides a very good comparison between what I'd call fake and true costs. Where again cost is some umbrella term for making something difficult to use (can be resource requirements, ethics, personal sacrifice etc).

Charlie apparently sent a lot of archons on risky missions. He does that all the time but usually those are mercenary missions, for which he gets loads of moolah.

What he's been doing lately with his Archons is definitely not his usual MO. Stepping out of that comfort zone- nice for us to read about. It's also natural to assume that Charlie won't risk his Archons like this often.

The other thing is the arken-link-up, whatever it may have been up to *cough*. The inconvenience for a one-turn link-up was what? That Archons felt a bit queasy about it? They had their orders, Charlie was out of commission for just the amount of time that it wouldn't have mattered (he did not actually miss that many turns and occasions to issue orders).

That is not enough to explain why Charlie wouldn't do links as often as necessary for whatever nefarious goal. He doesn't even need Archons in the field for those to work.

Totally agreed. We'll see if there's more of a cost than this.

I'm personally finding Charlie to be highly annoying, and increasingly so. He's the be-everywhere-do-everything guy, the know-it-all kid always raising his hand in class. I really hope Sammy (who I also can't stand) does tell him to go stuff it, even though I'm about 90% sure he won't.

[Fiendishrabbit]

Hilary as in Duff, all pop singers, save Paris

If only that were true..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_(Paris_Hilton_album)

Lies, there is no Paris Hilton album!

[BLANDCorporatio]

Totally agreed. We'll see if there's more of a cost than this.

I'm personally finding Charlie to be highly annoying, and increasingly so. He's the be-everywhere-do-everything guy, the know-it-all kid always raising his hand in class. I really hope Sammy (who I also can't stand) does tell him to go stuff it, even though I'm about 90% sure he won't.

And I agree with you!

I have only one thing to say about this.

Charlie . . . you, sir, are truly a Magnificent Bastard!

(Yeah, I linked it to TVTropes. So sue me.)

Look what you've done. Just look-

Lies, there is no Paris Hilton album! {unholy link snipped}

I am disappoint.

[badninja]

This is why Charlie is my second favorite person in this comic, after Parson. I got a feeling that even with Charlie pulling the strings that GK is going to get some sort of win out of this, even if it means only Wanda and Jack survive the battle. I hope GK can captil shot Haggar or FAQ for this act to get some revenge. Good up date over all.

[Ansan Gotti]

I have only one thing to say about this.

Charlie . . . you, sir, are truly a Magnificent Bastard!

(Yeah, I linked it to TVTropes. So sue me.)

It's kind of easy to be an MB when you have essentially -- for the purposes of nearly every context that we've seen so far -- unparalleled and in many cases effectively unlimited information and power at your disposal.

[Ninjaguineapig]

Well, archons aren't exactly humans. They are units popped from the power of the Arkendish, and are (likely) fanatically loyal to the Attuned (Charlie). Also, unlike Ansom, Hilary never was independent. From the moment she popped she was completely bound to Charlie, both mentally and emotionally. I imagine that she (and the other archons) are more fanatical than the decrypted because they've never been anything else. Ansom, Sylvia and all the other decrypted have personalities that go beyond Wanda.

Aaiunno. I daresay the original three archons displayed individual personality, much like humans, especially when given the chance to interact with more-or-less equals.

Archons have a lot of things in common that define their unit type. They're the corporate western ideal of an employable young female; classically pretty and well groomed, eager to please, polite, hard-working, satisfied being kept at the bottom of the chain of command no matter how well they do their jobs and perfectly willing to extend that attitude into their personal lives, but with just enough Hollywood sass and toughness to feel like a challenge. The secretary of every boss's dreams.

This is an aspect of their theme as a unit type, but within that (admittedly somewhat narrow) spectrum they definitely have individual personalities. Moreover, personalities in erfworld seem to develop a lot as their mechanical characters progress; warlords and casters gain individuality as they gain experience, even when initially promoted from a mass of infantry that thinks like Wiggly the stabber. I expect that Chalie's top archons are much the same.

But archons are not humans. They may have individual personalities, but they are popped units in a world with natural laws similar to those of a PC turn-based strategy game. They belong to Charlie, have always been that way, and always will be that way. Their dependency on him comes both from the magic of the Arkendish and, IMO, their Loyalty.

Their dependence on Charlie is natural, the way things are supposed to work. Erf is not Earth. It does not have the same rules, morals, ideas, none of that.

[1Luv]

Does anyone else think that perhaps hilary has not just loyalty, but love for Charlie?and that the two are actually different things?

Take Jillian and the spell that made her make excuses for not harming either Wanda or Ansom. She doesn't want to fight Wanda(she has loyalty/love for her), but she also loves Ansom.

Perhaps Love is an 'unknown' stat that is grown through repeated contact/random variables?(I don't want to get burned for it, but it could be like happiness in pokemon. You can't actually 'see' the number(as Erfworld units can see looking at their fellow units their stats), but it's still there and effects certain moves/abilities/loyalty), but it is still there.

So whereas one of the Archons would follow Charlie out of loyalty(As the Archons in GK wanted to please Parson because they got their sides changed when they were decrypted), Hilary would go beyond just loyalty and a general like of Charlie to be tortured and give the same lines instead of turning?

I noticed that some people said that the ArkenDish inspires this kind of loyalty, and that's why it's disturbing/creepy/fake. But if the Arkendish was blacked out why does that fanatical love/like/loyalty still remain?

Again just thoughts, which i'll probably have shot down:D

Also, Charlie swooping in to save the Archon is awesome. i wanna see Hilary more.

[Emmerson Grant]

I'm loving the story so far and I can't wait to see the main battle.

[Uthrac]

Only 4 of the 6 were spotted . . . . I wonder which 2 survived?

[Casander]

For a smart guy, Charlie can be Very stupid.

People are going after GK because they are afraid of a particular Arkentool, and its potential to obliterate them. And here comes Charlie, putting a dagger to Haggar's neck, and expecting them to be happy about it, and not move to Heaven and Earth to prevent Charlie from EVER exerting that pressure again.

It may not happen this time, or even soon, but if THIS is how Charlie manipulates people, GK looks MUCH more attractive.

[gazes_also]

First off - great update, actually answers some questions and moves the plot forward.

Not going to rehash some of the points made already.
But, my $0.02

Cost of Kingworld is significant - imagine a corporation in our world taking down it's primary communication network to divert it to one task, or an army in the field cutting off communication with central command.
This potentially exposes a vulnerability of Charlie's - he can deliver big strikes but will be blind and deaf for a turn before he does it. Potential Death Star vulnerability? Charlie did show significant risk management skills - putting safeguards in place before going dark to mitigate potential dangers


Archons are as devoted to Charlie as the Decrypted are to Wanda - could the Decrypts be tuned back to Charlie? Is that a trick he's keeping up his sleeve, they are a kind of sleeper agents without even being aware of it? Either that or will their heads will explode like fembots due to the internal conflict if they are ordered to attack Archons?

This answers in detail how Archons can monitor forces while reducing the risk of detection, pretty much clearing up the speculation on the other board on how Charlie had intel on Stanley's movements to Faq in book1.

He fixed Haggar which was always the least reliable and trustworthy side in play. "I'm going to make you an offer you can't refuse"
How dumb are Dickie and Sammy? If your going to betray someone, it should come as a surprise to, well, somebody, ANYBODY.
Is Charlie bluffing? don't think so - he has the power and would anyone else in the RCC really object to Haggar being eliminated? Slately would be privately relieved and Don would recognize it as a pragmatic move "It's not personal, it's business".

A key point that's implied: Charlie is still backing Jillian's play - he doesn't know what it is, and maybe he's going along with her to then "coax" her back on script, but he's still appears to be backing her.
The Charlie/Jillian alliance is the most interesting dynamic happening right now because the motivations of both are unclear, so the point at which they diverge is unknown. And yes, I am biased, they are my favourite characters because I think they are the two most interesting and complex erfworlders.