Book 2 – Text Updates 020

[gazes_also]

Interesting stuff on many levels.

Wanda's sense of Fate is interesting. She's not a monomaniac like Stanley, who believes that HE is fated to rule the world. She sees that the tools are fated to be brought together, She has the opportunity if she follows her fate to be involved in doing it, if she diverts from her fate, she'll be croaked and someone else will take her place. It makes her wary of making choices but completely committed when she chooses a path.

Her strategic thinking is very Parson-like. Taking the tower now will gain nothing so getting the heck out of there is the top priority. She expects Jillian to return and attack. Whether the mistake with Jillian was not accepting the offer or not attacking immediately doesn't really matter, she deflected her and will do so again if she doesn't deal with her - Jillian is her nemesis. Wanda will destroy her to remove her influence on her path.

Tactically, Wanda is the greatest asset they have, while strategically being their greatest liability. If Archers move into attack them an effective tactic would be for a stack of dwagons+archons attack the weakest stack of archers, wipe them out, Wanda comes in and decrypts them. The new decrypted ground units then attack the next JS stack. this will sew confusion in JS and give the air unts some support. They might pick off and convert a few stacks this way and force Trammenis and Jillian to be recalled before Ansom is finished.

Stately would be wise to let her sit there and stew, but he probably won't. We'll see, I guess next page will jump back to Jetstone.

[BCCroaker]

But perversely, she did not want Parson's advice this time. Somehow, she felt it was now simply time to apply what he had taught her. She cleared her throat.

That's interesting. Is it me, or does Parson have that effect on everyone? All important units on his side know he is a genius, but somehow, they all strive to prove they can do just fine without him. Ansom thinks this way. Stanley thinks this way. Now Wanda as well. Generalized inferiority complex?

The thing to keep in mind here is that other leaders ORDER but Parson TEACHES. Ansom want's to do things his own way. He refused to benefit from his dealings with Parson insisting his way was better. But Wanda wants to do it Parson's way. When someone teaches you, there is always some point where you want to apply that knowledge. But also, following another's example is about the biggest degree of respect you can give them. That's leadership, not just getting others to follow your orders, but getting others to follow your example. Now Wanda is under a very human desire to prove herself. That doesn't reflect badly on her relationship with Parson at all.

I agree with this, that Parson is teaching, but as a great teacher he is also inspiring. That may be one of his qualities as the Perfect Warlord, inspiring others to do their best. Vurp had only to walk round GK with him to feel trust for Gotti. Even Stanley turns to Lord Hamster for reassurance when doubtful. I know this is pure speculation, but great generals and conquerors (at least in legend etc) have followers who can be relied on to act as surrogates for the leader. Parson as Alexander?

[Jeivar]

Wow. Interesting look at Wanda. She's either brutally realistic and aware, or frighteningly fatalistic and deluded. It'll be interesting to find out which.

And now she's made an error that involves Jillian? That would be either . . .
1) Not attacking immediately when she had the chance, rather than parley
2) Not taking Jillian's offer, and leave Stanley's side.

I'm intrigued by the second possibility. That would mean that the Tools are NOT necessarily meant to be brought together. At least not with Stanley involved. Or maybe they are meant to be brought AGAINST one another, and the resulting cataclysmic war would change Erfworld in some drastic way.

We shall see . . .

It might also mean that she simply regretted not blasting her when she had her at point blanc range at tBfGK when she fired off all of GK's air defences.

Well, it seems more like Wanda considers her misstep to be recent. Her good fortune in getting the Arkenpliers and beginning massive conquest began AFTER the confrontation on the tower.

[the_tick_rules]

Oh Wanda. Fate is not your personal assistant.

[BCCroaker]

Oh Wanda. Fate is not your personal assistant.

Well, I read it the other way round - that she thinks she is one Fate's personal assistants. And given that Fate is an actual factor in the mechanics of Erfworld, (rather than just a philosophical concept), it seems somewhat precipitate to say that she is wrong.

[atalex]

I just think it's hysterical that after months of people complaining about how much they hate Wanda's hair, it turns out that (a) it's a helmet and (b) she hates it too.

[enthar]

Mathamancy was largely bunk.

Oh... ouch.

Well, the catechism for the faithful of the Titans is "By Fate and By Numbers and By Luck". The three things that determine the outcome (according to Erf prevailing theory and faith) of an activity. Fate is the Titans Will, Numbers is the hard cold fact that bugle horned sheep do not win against dwagons, and Luck is the fudge factor that means its not just an exercise in applying such and such Archons at such and such time to win every time.

That statement by Wanda leads me to believe that she is more on the faithful end of the spectrum and less on the "reasoning" or mathematical end of the spectrum. She has given up everything she cares about (Jillian etc) in pursuit of her faith in Fate. I would imagine it would be very challenging to her sense of self to allow the other two factors much dominance in the grand plan.

Although, truth be told, statistics for Erfworld is a good way to go wrong with confidence. Look at the conversations about the bracer- math is only as good as the information you put into it. And every gambler counting cards or figuring the odds in texas hold em knows that, even when you are running at 83% to win, can always get screwed on the river. Still wouldn't dismiss it as largely bunk. I wonder if the bracer can do calculus of variations (almost certainly, given the plot related powers it shows, but only geeky math folks would care).


As for suggestions:
From observing the restrictions on other units with perceived range attacks, it may be that "archery" as a trait has more effect than just allowing one a better chance to hit with a brick thrown from a wall. Attacking across the subzones of a hex seems to be the real benefit- from ground zone to air zone, primarily. I base this speculation on the peculiar limits of the archons- laser beams that still couldn't be used to sweep the walls around Ansom clear of cheap undead.

So, it becomes important to extend the speculation to dragons. Archons have a check list of powers they gain as they level. Watching the dragons attack the siege in the first book, it seems that at least some dragon types can attack air to ground, perhaps as related to a 'archery' or 'strafe' trait they can gain as they level. Purple have siege class breath weapons, and reds have fire. I would hazard by its nature (cwap tends to go straight down) and the in comic demonstration of battle crap vs. parasol that the yellows can certainly target air to ground.

So my suggestion then:
Get the archons together to use their limited foolamancy. Obviously have to save Jacks juice for displacements on the core stack, so that archers are firing at the wrong people. As the archer stacks engage, and hopefully before they figure out where the primary stack is, send strafe units in to attack them. This has two goals- draw fire away from your primary group and limit the opportunity for any warlords to detect the true location (hard to look closely about the hex when you are dodging acidic battle poop).

To that end, Archons with leadership form as many stacks of strafe as is logical (based on stacking bonuses and how many leaders available). Last Archon or disposable warlord leads the sucker, er, soaker stack, which floats around low, looking like a juicy target, hopefully enhanced by foolamancy to that effect. Wanda, Jack, Ossomer, hot red head chick, and their mounts + whatever is left to fill their stack hide under veil, either very high, or above the soaker stack, or behind any plausible terrain (clouds, towers, etc).

The goal is to survive the turn by focusing damage on the soaker stack, killing archer stacks when and where you can. IF there is limited ammo capacity per turn (seems plausible), this would work out very well. IF there is no limit to the ammo of an archer stack, the strafe units become utterly critical- you have to kill them to stop them from firing.

Flash mobs don't seem useful, as they stopped vision into another hex, which doesn't seem useful when you are in the same hex. This strategy has a serious weakness against enemy fliers, who can circle and look for the veil while your units are playing with the archers, then swoop in hex or in subzone to attack when they spot something. Thus, it is predicated on the assumption that Jetstones air power is limited to the handful of unipegataurs and oreally's left, and not Jillian's force.

[the_tick_rules]

Oh Wanda. Fate is not your personal assistant.

Well, I read it the other way round - that she thinks she is one Fate's personal assistants. And given that Fate is an actual factor in the mechanics of Erfworld, (rather than just a philosophical concept), it seems somewhat precipitate to say that she is wrong.

Is it me or does her mindset feel similar to Miko from OOTS?

[Dr Pepper]

Once again, my predictamancy failed Oh well.

As for strategy, well we've got an illusionist and a necromancer. Can we squeeze some duomancy out of that? I say yes:

1. Make ground troops see their comrades suddenly become zombies all around them.

2. Invoke each opponent's personal nightmares.

3. It's hard to shoot a bow while your flesh is crawling.

[Sixty]

The question I have is: If the defenders of Jetstone can move around freely but GK can't, does the same apply for the projectiles fired by these units? Because if so, then the archers can fire on GK cause it's all one big hex to them, while GK is essentially getting nailed from a zone they can't reach. To add to GK's woes, they apparently are gonna have to dodge arrows for hours (or however long Jetstone's turn is). I would imagine dodging arrows for 4-8 hours (or however long Jetstone can make their turn go on for) would be rather difficult. Hope they're good at dodge ball.

Granted if GK can fire back then that gives them a (literally) fighting chance.

[Raza]

I hope Wanda will have something to contribute, herself. I want to finally see croakamancy do more than create zombies, although this might not be the situation for it.

Another suggestion: Wanda still is a croakamancer and can use the "trioxon" maxx-uncrak spell. if the croak a bunch of defenders and their bodies fall into the city, she can animate them and order them to attack the rest of the defenders. Maybe she has even access to an "mass-decrypt" spell, or can decrypt over the boundary of city zones. With Jack's help she could try to fly very deep and decrypt fallen defenders. If she causes enough havoc under the archers she has a real chance.

Trioxin uncroaks 'every unit in a hex or city zone'. Her current city zone is airspace, and there's nothing to uncroak.

Jack particularly spent a lot of time with Parson during his brainstorming sessions, so he should have something positive to contribute, and Sylvia always had something to contribute to Ansom's sessions too, the real question is Ossomer.

Sylvia mostly contributed a lot of roaring impatience and bloodlust, though.

IMO (but not a too strongly held one), it's better for an author to kinda ignore reader speculations and recommendations. Supposedly an author has a vision for the story, or some core of it that seems to snowball on its own inside their mind; a story written by committee might not be that good.

For most stories I'd agree, but Erfworld has an ongoing theme of having its reality derived from earth concepts and perceptions. I think it'd fit.

[Miklus II]

Ok, here is the first idea to pop into my head when Wanda asked...

Wanda and Silvia change clothes (woot) and dwagons under a viel from Jack or maybe another flash mob. Silvia puts on the godawful wig to hide her red hair and Wanda puts on Silvias helmet or some other helmet to hide her long black hair. There is a problem with the pliers, though. I very much doubt that Wanda will lend them to Silvia. It might also have concequences for the decrypted army. Maybe Jack can do a "simple displacement" again on the pliers alone? Maybe the archons have enough juice to do this? Foolamancy is supposedly easier if it is helped by reality, like when Parson and Bogroll changed places and Wanda and Silvia have almost the same build. Who will notice in the heat of battle?

This trick could save Wanda, but from a story perspective Silvia is almost cetainly dead. It is of cause irelevant if the entire dwagon fleet is killed off.

Or Wanda could defect to Charlie's side taking the pliers with her, but that is simple too scary to even think about.

[Chit Rule Railroad]

Or Wanda could defect to Charlie's side taking the pliers with her, but that is simple too scary to even think about.

It would be very interesting if her decrypted warlords had a Duty to her so strong that they would try to talk her into turning.

[Goshen]

So Wanda si going to go ahead without Parson's advice. Wanda is brilliant, but she' may be too smart for her own good. I have a flashback to Maggie explaining that Wanda had cast that thinkamancy spell in Jillian "quite competently" but neglected to shield herself from the backlash when the link was broken...not being an expert in thinkamancy.

[HandofShadows]

Is it me or does her mindset feel similar to Miko from OOTS?

There are more differences than similarities actually. Miko could never belive that she was ever wrong. Wanda clearly thinks she has made mistakes. Miko refused to change, Wanda clearly does cahnge (though it it hard). Miko though she was gods gift or chosen one with a special destiny (really just an excuse for her own decisions). Wanda does not see herself as special. To her everyone has a fate and trying to run away from it does not good and hurts more. So she embraces her fate as best as she can. She is special in only what fate will do with her. Not that she herself is special. And from all indications she might well be right on some level. She is attuned to an Arkentool and that is very very rare.

[Grimnir]

I gotta say Wanda looks beautiful without her helmet. Nice art.

[ender]

excellent update, I definitely think Wanda is trying to use Parsons teachings, and as any good leader knows, you should ask the advice of your other leaders, if you use it or not, makes them feel needed.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Sylvia mostly contributed a lot of roaring impatience and bloodlust, though.

She was calm ... once ... Anyway, a better summary of her would be "nay-sayer". She was constantly second-guessing Ansom, pushing forward when Ansom said to wait and vice-versa.

For most stories I'd agree {about the author doing their own thing}, but Erfworld has an ongoing theme of having its reality derived from earth concepts and perceptions. I think it'd fit.

To some degree, why not. After all, any good writer knows that some outside interference is necessary, like an editor, or maybe that ad-libbed line an actor just came up with would make a good change etc. Just don't let us forumites, typing away at our keyboards, set up the plot Even if an infinity of forumites typing at each other will eventually produce the works of Shakespeare.

excellent update, I definitely think Wanda is trying to use Parsons teachings, and as any good leader knows, you should ask the advice of your other leaders, if you use it or not, makes them feel needed.

And Ender would know

Wanda and Silvia change clothes (woot) and dwagons under a viel from Jack or maybe another flash mob. Silvia puts on the godawful wig to hide her red hair and Wanda puts on Silvias helmet or some other helmet to hide her long black hair.

Hooray for Notwanda, she may yet come to pass. Though I kinda hope not.

The question I have is: If the defenders of Jetstone can move around freely but GK can't, does the same apply for the projectiles fired by these units? Because if so, then the archers can fire on GK cause it's all one big hex to them, while GK is essentially getting nailed from a zone they can't reach.
{...}
Granted if GK can fire back then that gives them a (literally) fighting chance.

If the Dwagon fire can reach the archers, yeah, that's a fair battle. If not, well, there's been some speculation as to how that may not be too disastrous for GK after all ... Mostly silly speculation, granted, but still it suggests that even something as a wall that is only unpassable to you can be turned (somewhat) to your advantage.

If life gives you unpassable walls, make graffitti.

[Lamech]

I would assume that if the archers fire on Wanda and Co. then Wanda and co. can fire back. If they can't then Parson would have shot the archons out of the sky as soon as they ended turn, and if the dwagons can already fire Wanda would have blasted the tower down already.

[splintermute]

I would assume that if the archers fire on Wanda and Co. then Wanda and co. can fire back. If they can't then Parson would have shot the archons out of the sky as soon as they ended turn, and if the dwagons can already fire Wanda would have blasted the tower down already.

I don't think that's the reason Parson didn't shoot down the archons, and I think he was capable of doing so, with impunity, at any time (assuming no ammo restrictions). Charlie didn't have to end turn - he could have just ended GK, but Parson convinced him otherwise - I think they had a tacit understanding that if they didn't interfere with each other, the archons would be allowed to clean up the mess after GK and the RCC were done. Charlie broke that agreement first, by re-allying with Ansom, at which point his archons were limited to a support role, because they couldn't fire into the courtyard, but became viable targets again, as when Maggie tried attacking the DDR leaders, although presumably most of GK's infantry/archers were otherwise occupied at that time.