Book 2 – Page 27

[Welf von Ehrwald]

Ok, and again, I fully understand that, and I agree with it. Everything you guys have said has been informative.

But, the thing is, what Charlie knows isn't what matters. What matters is what Jillian thinks Charlie knows, and what Charlie is pretending to know. Jillian is pretty simple, she isn't likely to stop and think "Hey, Charlie sent one of my thinkagrams, and I bet he listened in on that."

All I'm saying, is that there's a chance she isn't interpreting Charlie's actions as an explicit, obvious, double-cross.

Maybe, but with Charlie's history of screwing everybody as much as possible Jillian would in doubt blame him to do this on purpose. Also Jillian knows that she fulfilled her main purpose: making Wanda vulnerable. And she never assumed to be more than a pawn in his plans.

Since we already have 4 love interests for Jill, why not make it 5?

Perhaps Charlie has fallen in love with Queen Looney, and wanted to get rid of chief rival Ansom!

I don't think so, Charlie seems to have fallen in love with himself a long time ago, I don't think there is room for someone else in his "heart". Or whatever he has instead.

[Rosa Vernal]

Just that I had to re-read today's page once or twice before I felt I understood what was going on. The "Sammy getting pierced by pikers" panel especially gave me trouble. Confused the protruding spearheads with armor ornament of some sort.

Ah, I can see what you mean, there. Actually, at first, I was like "Wait, GK has tridents?" until I tried to follow the lines of the piker on the right, and went "Oh, it's a few pikers spearing the boop out of him."

It might have been allieviated a little if some of the spears/pikes hitting him in the back were just penetrating it, instead of looking sort of like a poke in the back with a broom. Some of the stabby bit showing, or the part that binds the stabby part to the holdy part.

[Lamech]

This point has already been covered; Charlie convinced Jillian to work with him by showing her Wanda and Ansom.

Hmm... yeah, I think he even mentions that she may not have lost what she thought she did. So I guess Charlie is just a moron then.

[Alexei P]

So I guess Charlie is just a moron then.

... unleeessss it's what he wants the forum to think...

[Glenn]

How much of a chance did Sammy have of croaking Ansom in the first place? Ansom is a 10, perhaps the single most powerful warlord we have yet seen. What was Sammy's level? If he was clearly inferior to Ansom, (maybe a 6 or 7)then maybe Charlie will tell Jillian he never thought Sammy could do anything but weaken Ansom, (thus making it easier for her to capture him).

[BLANDCorporatio]

Just that I had to re-read today's page once or twice before I felt I understood what was going on. The "Sammy getting pierced by pikers" panel especially gave me trouble. Confused the protruding spearheads with armor ornament of some sort.

Ah, I can see what you mean, there. Actually, at first, I was like "Wait, GK has tridents?" until I tried to follow the lines of the piker on the right, and went "Oh, it's a few pikers spearing the boop out of him."

It might have been allieviated a little if some of the spears/pikes hitting him in the back were just penetrating it, instead of looking sort of like a poke in the back with a broom. Some of the stabby bit showing, or the part that binds the stabby part to the holdy part.

Yeah, Erfworlders not bleeding is the cause of the spear-point/ornament confusion.

I dunno, I quite liked the artwork, (except for Jillian's yell-panel), and while the pike-points made me do a double take, that's not a complaint.

Background vs. foreground is nicely handled by Xin's selective shading, and a bit of chaos in what depicts a really complex scene is all right; not saying this was a grand oeuvre of composition, but it's not bad at all.

And again, I loved the Spidew!

[gazes_also]

Left field theory:
Seeing Sammy despatched so easily Jillian realizes that this is not her dear Ansomy Vansomy and is the single strongest force in the battle and he will destroy her, Tram and anyone else in his way. She also realizes that she will be blamed for Sammy's demise.

She thus decides to no longer be ambivalent and pulls her head out of her boop. She leaps from her mount, tells Duncan to command the air support and rallies Haggar's forces to follow her and gives her bonus to the stack. She then regroups and launches into a full out attack on Ansom's troops leading to a hand to hand struggle with Ansom himself.

[hizo84]

So everyone thinks that Jillian wants to save Ansom... but this page suggest that she wants to kill him herself. When you tell an ally " He's mine! Dont you dare finish him!!" that seems like you want to kill him. They say there is no furry like a woman scorned and Jillian is a little fatal attraction-y to me.

[Fug]

I really like the spidew's expression in the third to last panel.

Sammy's death is consistent with the Rocky Horror theme . . .

As for blood the croaked twoll has bloody cuts in the early panel.

[enthar]

Merciful god, the art sucks. Please, someone, make it stop.


(the writing is still top notch.)

Wow. Everyone is a critic, no accounting for taste, blah blah blah.

But can you be more specific and constructive please? Cause to have your second post ever be this is some what less than helpful.

For me, I have been regularly impressed by the art. People seem to responding to conscious /style/ choices on Xin's part. Which means, sure, whatever you can dislike it based on that, but it certainly does not 'suck'.

[Altima]

Yet another reason Jillian needs to be croaked. And I used to like her, too.

I love, love panel 4. The way Jillian's hair is flying about was very nicely done.

But yeah, Jillian certainly did cause, or significantly contribute to, Sammy's demise. You can't just fly into the middle of a battle and yell something so surprising. If Sammy is Hagar's chief warlord, which seems likely, well, they're screwed. They just lost a massive leadership bonus--the warlord bonus, the hex bonus, AND the bonus to Sammy's personal stack.

As for Charlie...why NOT piss Jillian off? She's served her purpose--Charlie's goal seems to be not only slap down GK, but also prove to the RCC that he's 'trustworthy'. Both of which seem to be in the process of being completed. After all, Charlie certainly wouldn't have helped defeated GK (and, let's face it, they are defeated, it's just at this point we're wondering how badly) if he were allied with them, and as far as everyone else is concered, Faq simply hired him, and he's not the one who orchestrated events.

Even if Charlie screws the pooch with Jillian, there's just not a whole lot she can do but bend over and take it. She's in a tiny, pissy kingdom that has drained the treasury of a much, MUCH larger (and older) kingdom--her defenses that she can support herself are a joke, and she probably couldn't maintain (or maybe just barely so) the upkeep of the air armada she currently has along with her natural allies, the infantry, warlords, etc. Charlie is footing the bill for her (only) casters, meaning without him, she goes back to zero.

On top of that, she really hates Stanley, meaning she certainly won't turn on Charlie by helping him in the slightest. Jillian can't break alliance to attack either Hagar or Jetstone, else she'd be breaking alliance with Transylvito, basically making her a sitting duck. And if Jillian really does want to croke Stanley, she'll have to stay on with the RCC, who will probably be dipping into Charlie's suddenly incredibly reasonable services after this.

@Ansom not accepting the 'duel'--Sammy wasn't offering, and Ansom would have been stupid to accept. After all, the RCC2 has at least double Hagar's forces behind them. Sammy was fodder to soften Ansom up. He can and did take Sammy out, which hasn't really changed the tactical situation. On the other hand, if Sammy had croaked or even wounded Ansom even more, GK would be in even more trouble.

[Dr Pepper]

Merciful god, the art sucks. Please, someone, make it stop.

Seriously? Your lookamancy needs new glasses!

[Dr Pepper]

But yeah, Jillian certainly did cause, or significantly contribute to, Sammy's demise. You can't just fly into the middle of a battle and yell something so surprising.

Disagree. It's just Fantasy Combat Timing, or whatever it's called, the old convention that conversation in the midst of a fight doesn't affect anything. I'm sure that The Wiki of Lost Time has an article about it.

[MindyMaples]

Wonder if in the event of Sammy being decrypted ... would the head be reattached or would he carry it around?

[Ansan Gotti]

Wonder if in the event of Sammy being decrypted ... would the head be reattached or would he carry it around?

Based on what happened to Ossomer, it looks like the process completely discombobulates the old corpse and generates a completely new one.

[BCCroaker]

About Ansom gaining a level for croaking Sammy - I've been assuming that level 10 was the upper limit, partly because that made the problem as tough as possible for Parson in book1. Anybody know anything for or against this opinion?

[Hironomus]

I've never posted before but there was something I wanted to say.

People are discussing the cause of Sammy's death and are suggesting that Jillian engaging him in dialogue as he fought Ansom may have been a contributing factor.
This may be the case but the way I see it Sammy is a competent warlord who has enough experience to divide his attention and multitask during battle. He would not have replied to Jillian had he felt this would lead to his defeat. Also even if he had been undistracted he was unlikely to survive in his situation anyway.

I like to think of scenes like this as a comment on the sort of conversation which occurs between players of tabletop rpg's and tbs's. Often they occur at innapropriate times and in highly unrealistic time frames for no other reason than the players disagree on some minor point, in this case Sammy wants to kill Ansom, Jillian doesn't want him to kill Ansom.

Dr Pepper wrote:
Disagree. It's just Fantasy Combat Timing, or whatever it's called, the old convention that conversation in the midst of a fight doesn't affect anything. I'm sure that The Wiki of Lost Time has an article about it.

Thats exactly what I'm talking about. So I guess I just wasted ten minutes of my time and like a minute of everyone elses. Sorry.

[effataigus]

Well, she doesn't say "I'm going to kill him..." She just says "he's mine, don't you dare finish him."

I'm sure what she meant to so say though was "OMG you just kicked a spidew in the face so hard he cried." Surely that's what she was thinking...

[effataigus]

About Ansom gaining a level for croaking Sammy - I've been assuming that level 10 was the upper limit, partly because that made the problem as tough as possible for Parson in book1. Anybody know anything for or against this opinion?

The hippiemancer said something about never being able to get to level infinity (as though there were no theoretical upper limit). Mebbe casters have a different leveling system though.

[splintermute]

I'm of the opinion that Charlie's objective was never Ansom - considering the level disparity, I think it was just an expedient way to get rid of Sammy, in retaliation for his torture of the archons, while proving his worth to the RCC II. Also, if he doesn't want GK to find out about his involvement, he needs to figure out a way to either destroy all the Haggar troops, or prevent Wanda from reaching them on time.

I think Erfworld's treatment of blood is interesting, if inconsistent. Units don't bleed, but they do bruise (and their vampire bats can drain wild bighorned sheep), which implies the presence of blood. Also, there are two lines in Sylvia's poem that intrigue me:
"For the eyeing of my scars, there is a charge
For the hearing of my heart----"
Hearing someone's heart suggests that their heart is actually doing something (i.e. circulating blood). More distressing is her use of the word "scars." Considering the Erfworld healing mechanism - regaining full health at the start of next turn, and we've seen units that are battered black and blue one turn look completely unblemished the next - there is technically no way anyone on Erf should have any concept of the word "scar," except maybe in a psychological sense, but you'd think they'd use a different word for that.