Erfworld Game

[turbler]

ah well... I can't seem to PM people anyhow, so that would have been a problem. But indeed it was fun.

[Twoy]

Indeed. Oh well, it was a lot of fun while it laster, I really enjoyed myself and i'm working on a RL version just to play with my rpg circle. Probably will make it very basic. Onto the other erfgames getting set up!

I would be interested in that RL version if you don't mind sharing when you are finished. My RPG group probably would not be interested in playing, but I might be able to get a couple of people and have a three-side game.

[Crovius]

Indeed. Oh well, it was a lot of fun while it laster, I really enjoyed myself and i'm working on a RL version just to play with my rpg circle. Probably will make it very basic. Onto the other erfgames getting set up!

I would be interested in that RL version if you don't mind sharing when you are finished. My RPG group probably would not be interested in playing, but I might be able to get a couple of people and have a three-side game.

I'll let you know how it turns out. Already explained the basics to some friends and finding a hex-grid map to play on, the guys are coming up with different sides. One guy is making all his guys themed around Mayans and Aztecs, another has an Egyption mythology thing going on, a third wants to do some Norse stuff. It looks pretty cool. Still in the concept phase for tkaing the rules we made here and bringing them to a 3-D board.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Did you also change popping speeds?

60 turns for an Heir is ... brutal.

[Crovius]

I'm altering the game a bit to be more an army simulator, kinda like Warhammer or somehting, at least playing with that idea. Letting the sides agree on the size of the battle, using whiteboards for the maps, giving the units they create costs in schmuckers then their starting salary and simply negating any upkeep as they won't make any schmuckers.

But yes, I am also making an RTS version that is more akin to the current games. The pop rate has been decreased for warlords nad heirs drastically. A lv 5 city capital can make an heir in 15 turns, and makes warlords in 6 turns.

We'll see how it works out.

[Twoy]

Indeed. Oh well, it was a lot of fun while it laster, I really enjoyed myself and i'm working on a RL version just to play with my rpg circle. Probably will make it very basic. Onto the other erfgames getting set up!

I would be interested in that RL version if you don't mind sharing when you are finished. My RPG group probably would not be interested in playing, but I might be able to get a couple of people and have a three-side game.

I'll let you know how it turns out. Already explained the basics to some friends and finding a hex-grid map to play on, the guys are coming up with different sides. One guy is making all his guys themed around Mayans and Aztecs, another has an Egyption mythology thing going on, a third wants to do some Norse stuff. It looks pretty cool. Still in the concept phase for tkaing the rules we made here and bringing them to a 3-D board.

I have a hex map that is about 36x48 hexes (3'X4') that I use for my rpg. I use the squares side from rpg, that leaves the hex side for Erfworld. I bought it on amazon for about $30 maybe. It seems perfect for an Erfworld boardgame, but the game board would have to be considerable downsized from the one we are playing on in Dark Arbiter's Erfworld.

[Crovius]

I'm going with a whiteboard table, I have a bunch of thin electrical tape I can use to build the hexes. The table is 4' by 8', thanks to custom ordering, and I can make the hexes small enough to make a good sized map. Then use of a number of dry-erase markers and I can have a decent map going.

[Dark Arbiter]

I don't mean to take advantage of the sudden (apparent) termination of this game, but...

As some of you know, I am running a game based on (and in many cases directly copying) the rules from this one. I've currently got 9 sides on a fairly large (but expandable) hex map, running on google Wave. I and a friend of mine are GMing. I think it's running very well so far, and you can ask other players if you want a second opinion.

Anyway, I'm posting this to let you all know that if any of you were playing Kaed's game and wish to continue playing an Erf Game, you're all more than welcome to join mine. Just PM me and go post on the "Another Erf-Game" thread.

[Kaed]

I had spring break. I'm going to try really hard to actually make you guys some turns now because I've been slipping into hardcore procrastination. >.<

I've decided to change Heir popping to 20 turns.

[Crovius]

I think Promethea was still enroute to investigating the NorthEast since it is assumed that is the direction the Nepri and my Scout disappeared.

I really want a Thinkamancer :/

[Dark Arbiter]

I had spring break. I'm going to try really hard to actually make you guys some turns now because I've been slipping into hardcore procrastination. >.<

I've decided to change Heir popping to 20 turns.

Good to see you back Kaed
My earlier offer is rescinded, now that this game is less dead than before.

If I may, what prompted you to shorten Heir popping so much? Just curious for my own game - nobody has tried popping an heir yet, so I have no experience to run on.

[BLANDCorporatio]

If I may, what prompted you to shorten Heir popping so much? Just curious for my own game - nobody has tried popping an heir yet, so I have no experience to run on.

Maybe, turn-turn-over so to speak. There's rarely a turn-a-day development for these games, so if an heir takes 60 turns to pop, that would take (optimistically) at least two months of real time! That, and there's also the production lock-down for the city. Now, you'd want some of that, heirs are important and all, but at 60 turns you're slowing down the game a bit much.

[Dark Arbiter]

Maybe, turn-turn-over so to speak. There's rarely a turn-a-day development for these games, so if an heir takes 60 turns to pop, that would take (optimistically) at least two months of real time! That, and there's also the production lock-down for the city. Now, you'd want some of that, heirs are important and all, but at 60 turns you're slowing down the game a bit much.

Fair enough. I'm getting about a turn a day thus far, so I can't speak to that. However, it seems to me that the massive pop time is balanced out somewhat by the fact that a) they can pop royals and jazz, and also they can (relatively) easily hire a turnamancer and cut the time down by a ton.

But that's just my 2 cents.

[Twoy]

60 turns (or 30 with a turnamancer) is just too long to tie up the production of a city. I'm planning to pop a royal warlord and pay the 25k schmuckers to make her heir designate.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Indeed, think about it.

Chosing to pop an Heir means "nothing" happens in that city for a month. The order's set, so you need to wait. Quite a drag, isn't it?

Meanwhile, in those 30 turns, the city is busy producing income. It's very easy for cities to produce enormous amounts of moolah, so easy in fact that there's more money around than orders to spend it on ...

So then, the rational solution is to promote. It costs a ton of schmuckers, but tons of schmuckers are cheaper than months' worth of turns.

And that's with the Turnamancer. It's still too slow.

Then there's the argument about any abilities that royal heirs may unlock. For one, I don't think the numbers game really favours that kind of slow buildup (why bother with a few marginally more blingy units when you can just as well zerg) but for two, and most important, on the authority of ZP's Yahtzee verily I say unto thee that a game that's only getting good "later" is having a problem now.

[Twoy]

Don't get me wrong. I like the concept of playing exactly according to canon.

I just don't understand why Jillian is spending 60 turns to pop a royal heir when she could pop a royal warlord and designate him or her the heir.

I won't even consider popping a royal heir unless I have a turnamancer, at least a half dozen Level 5 cities, and an army that is already straining the limits of my capability to pay their upkeep. And even then I bet I can still come up with some better use for a city than spending 30 turns popping a royal heir, such as popping multiple warlords with a very small percent chance of getting another caster.

[Azgrut]

In Erf I absolutely agree. I mean, if you pop an heir, and you croak, your side will remain standing.

How does that help you? You are croaked anyway .

In this game An heir would be of use. Since you keep playing the game anyway. But then a royal warlord -> heir would be indeed a better choice.

Remember too though that in Erf, sides are not always in total war with each other. Thus you have much less stress for popping army then in this game. Sides exsist for thousends of turns under a single ruler. What is 60 turns if you have some thousands?

[turbler]

Az has a point. . .And to Kaed, good luck digging your way out of procrastination! You have our support (figuratively speaking, though if there is something within our own power. . .I don't see why not.)

[Twoy]

Remember too though that in Erf, sides are not always in total war with each other. Thus you have much less stress for popping army then in this game. Sides exsist for thousends of turns under a single ruler. What is 60 turns if you have some thousands?

I hear what you're saying. All we've seen of Erf is the huge conflict that started shortly before the BfGK.

It's possible that Jillian has already maxed out her cities' capability to pay the upkeep on her armies. In that case, there's no reason not to save schmuckers by waiting 60 rounds for an heir to pop. Her other two cities can potentially provide replacements for any units she loses in battle.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Sides exsist for thousends of turns under a single ruler. What is 60 turns if you have some thousands?

60 turns is roughly two months for me. And that's unwieldy.

After all, the duration of a typical Civ game is well below the lifespan of a human being, even though the game time covers thousands of years.

As for the 60 turns for the heir, IF a) an heir was absolutely necessary, or at least strongly recommended AND b) there is NO OTHER WAY to get one, then you are forced to cough up the 60 turns. Just like, sometimes, you will spend loads of turns to research that one world-shattering spell. But if you can promote heirs, why bother? As for saving Schmuckers ... no. If Starcraft teaches anything (and though an RTS, it applies here too I'm sure) it's that a treasury needs to be kept lean.

If you have too much money in your treasury, it means you're not doing enough stuff, or worse, you have not done enough and it's too late to correct it now. Various games will differ on how much is too much for your treasury to contain, but the point remains. Beyond a certain point, saving Schmuckers is pointless/dangerous.