Book 2 – Page 29

[VariaVespasa]

Is it just me, or is Jillian in the last panel, both in her words and position, channelling Fighter from 8-bit theatre?

[BLANDCorporatio]

Turnabout means the reversal of a situation, a reflection of sorts. Ansom captured Ossomer and dragged him away, the 'turnabout' is Ansom now being the one captured and dragged away.

Yes but it seems that in erfworld there is usually a cultural reference beyond the obvious meaning of a word. Can I call it "Asparagus's first law of erfworld"?

And here's the BLAND Cynical Corollary: with enough eyes looking for them, more references will be found than the Titans put in.

[Smoker]

And here's the BLAND Cynical Corollary: with enough eyes looking for them, more references will be found than the Titans put in.

I hope this is correct; I've actually been using the term NORP after I read it was "Normal Ordinary Reasonable Person" - I just liked the term... then I read the possible reference to it being an anagram of Porn... I'm hoping that's not correct - although honestly I dont see at all how it would be relevant. Rob's word play is more sophisticated than "Hey! It's a net-culture term! Lookit!"

[Nebulious]

And here's the BLAND Cynical Corollary: with enough eyes looking for them, more references will be found than the Titans put in.

I hope this is correct; I've actually been using the term NORP after I read it was "Normal Ordinary Reasonable Person" - I just liked the term... then I read the possible reference to it being an anagram of Porn... I'm hoping that's not correct - although honestly I dont see at all how it would be relevant. Rob's word play is more sophisticated than "Hey! It's a net-culture term! Lookit!"

I think so. Whenever Rob uses a word to stand for a sound effect, it's always relevant to the situation, like quern or hsash. 'Porn backwards' has no tie to the situation. 'Normal Ordinary Reasonable Person' may be the reference since it's the allies approaching sound. But I'm personally more inclined to think that this time, a sound is just a sound.

[wrecan]

With respect to the ease with which Ansom was captured, remember that...

1. Wanda had purposely separated Ansom from the bulk of Gobwin Knob's forces, leaving him with a skeleton crew of (according to Text update 19), "three Warlords, two heavies, sixty-two infantry, and sixteen archery." That's a very small force. (I don't know how he counted twolls and spidews, as the picture shows at least five twolls and Ansom's spidew)
2. Prince Sammy and the Haggarians cut out a large chunk of that, including at least one twoll and likely a bunch of infantry.
3. By the time her megalogwiffs attacked, the Spidew was badly damaged. According to Parson (and his mathamancy bracer) "he's still toast".

The question isn't why was it so easy for Ansom to get captured. It was easy because Wanda left Ansom virtually unprotected, assuming that the fight, if any, would be between her and Jillian, and that even if it went badly, Ansom would have this turn to retreat halfway to Brookstone if necessary. She simply hadn't anticipated that Vanna would end GK's turn prematurely, thus preventing Ansom from using any move to escape.

[the_tick_rules]

Here's another question for you. If she dove down on him from above shouldn't his feet have been sticking out from the mouth instead of his head?

[Nihila]

1. Wanda had purposely separated Ansom from the bulk of Gobwin Knob's forces, leaving him with a skeleton crew of (according to Text update 19), "three Warlords, two heavies, sixty-two infantry, and sixteen archery." That's a very small force. (I don't know how he counted twolls and spidews, as the picture shows at least five twolls and Ansom's spidew)

In the text update before Haggar attacked, Ansom is revealed to have reinforced the hex during Gobwin Knob's turn.
(http://www.erfworld.com/page/6/)

[wrecan]

In that post, he makes clear they had zero move. All of those troops had to already have been in Ansom's hex, which means those the troops he was already counting earlier. All he did in that post was arrange his troops within the hex. He had been stacking them for a forced march, but when the turn ended prematurely, he circled them up in anticipation of an attack. But he didn't have any additional troops.

[Nihila]

Ansom says to Captain Ford, in the last paragraph of the first section,

Cut through the trees to the back of the column, and march forward all the top units. Leave a minimal rearguard, and pack this hex tight with the best we've got.

If this doesn't constitute reinforcement, nothing does.

[ftl]

In that post, he makes clear they had zero move. All of those troops had to already have been in Ansom's hex, which means those the troops he was already counting earlier. All he did in that post was arrange his troops within the hex. He had been stacking them for a forced march, but when the turn ended prematurely, he circled them up in anticipation of an attack. But he didn't have any additional troops.

No, I think he did.

The update says -
1) Wanda left him behind.
2) He sulks for 15 minutes, then realizes that he's in a horribly defended hex right next to Jetstone's best hex. Wanda says it'll be OK, but Ansom always plans for the worst, so he sends out Ford to the back of the column to bring more units up, "pack this hex with the best we've got.".
....
3) One hour later, things go horribly wrong and it's not his turn anymore.

I read it as "in that hour, Ansom brought up some more units from the rest of the column to make a halfway decent defensive position." This is confirmed by Ansom saying

[quote=Ansom]The Coalition was on its turn, for some inexplicable reason. ... With zero move, they were stuck here. But at least they were strong. [/quote]
He has strengthened the hex.

[Fug]

With reference to the direction Ansom is sticking out of the Megalo, you can see him change his position in the megalo. When Jillian is flying in to chat with Trem. Ansom is in the middle front of the megalo- right above the collar. By the last panel he is off to the right side of the megalo suggesting that the megalo can move the captured person around inside the goo.

[effataigus]

Could someone refer me to something officialish stating that you don't need a Thinkamancer for a link if there is such a thing? I thought that was necessary, but people are speculating like it's not.

I can't. I'm under the impression that a thinkmancer is indeed required for a link. My guess is that the discussion that you're seeing is implicitly assuming that there is a thinkamancer + whatever they're talking about.

[The Game]

Is it just me, or is Jillian in the last panel, both in her words and position, channelling Fighter from 8-bit theatre?

You are not the only one. Now, we'll have to wait and see if she'll ever use her sword-chucks before her craziness gets the better of her

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Still think that megalogwiff is injured, not crying- that looks all kinds of weird for a tear, but pretty decent for a rip.

[Wender]

Those are anime-style tears. It might also be crying because on top of everything else it lost its rider.

[effataigus]

Still think that megalogwiff is injured, not crying- that looks all kinds of weird for a tear, but pretty decent for a rip.

I think it's just part of an anime-influenced style:

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii23 ... jerker.jpg

http://deletionpedia.dbatley.com/w/inde ... Face_fault

Jamie used to do some of these hyper-emotes too:

Wanda, panel 7 and 9.
http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=/006.jpg

Jillian, panel 5.
http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=/010.jpg

[HailGreen28]

Gets Sammy croaked; makes an ass-pull almost as bad as the "end turn" shenanigan, without paying the price GW did when they nabbed Ossomer; and it's like "yay she's the hero!" *barf*

What price did GK pay when they nabbed Oss? Jack was hurt and an Archon died (and Ansom got a black eye) - of course they were attacking a position with good anti-air defenses - two princes, lots of archers and warlords, casters, the works. Ansom's position wasn't nearly as strong against aerial units but it still looks like some megalos were hurt and one of their riders might have died (so one of Jillian's warlords).

First off, great pic "Let's braid his hair!" LOL

Secondly, GK certainly paid more than Jillian Sue did, despite a lot more strategery, trickery and work to get in. They used caster juice from Jack and the Archons to flash the hex, make a displacement illusion to keep reinforcements away, and shock the infantry around the warlord to capture.

Even with all that, with escorting infantry and Trem. disabled, with only Ossomer and long range archery to deal with, GK still had a caster knocked out of action, their Chief Warlord wounded, one archon killed, other archons and dwagons wounded (link here: Check out the second and last panel )

Meanwhile Jillian Sue makes a brazen frontal assault against a reinforced and prepared infantry/troll stack led by a Chief Warlord, and aside from a crying Mego-Gwiff, just some wounded gwiffs. Maybe we'll find a wounded warlord.

Big difference in price, there.

[ftl]

Gets Sammy croaked; makes an ass-pull almost as bad as the "end turn" shenanigan, without paying the price GW did when they nabbed Ossomer; and it's like "yay she's the hero!" *barf*

What price did GK pay when they nabbed Oss? Jack was hurt and an Archon died (and Ansom got a black eye) - of course they were attacking a position with good anti-air defenses - two princes, lots of archers and warlords, casters, the works. Ansom's position wasn't nearly as strong against aerial units but it still looks like some megalos were hurt and one of their riders might have died (so one of Jillian's warlords).

First off, great pic "Let's braid his hair!" LOL

Secondly, GK certainly paid more than Jillian Sue did, despite a lot more strategery, trickery and work to get in. They used caster juice from Jack and the Archons to flash the hex, make a displacement illusion to keep reinforcements away, and shock the infantry around the warlord to capture.

Even with all that, with escorting infantry and Trem. disabled, with only Ossomer and long range archery to deal with, GK still had a caster knocked out of action, their Chief Warlord wounded, one archon killed, other archons and dwagons wounded (link here: Check out the second and last panel )

Meanwhile Jillian Sue makes a brazen frontal assault against a reinforced and prepared infantry stack, and aside from a crying Mego-Gwiff, just some wounded gwiffs. Maybe we'll find a wounded warlord.

Big difference in price, there.

Well, the maybe-wounded-warlord plus half of Haggar's army and their Chief Warlord croaked. Don't forget that - as Sammy said, they were going in as the first wave, and so they did. First wave to soften up the position, second wave to deal the killing blow.

And, even before the first wave, Jillian was attacking a far weaker position - a Chief Warlord, no casters, either no or little archery and other warlords (we certainly didn't see any, though apparently there were a few), compared to a hex with three casters, a stack full of noble warlords, the Chief Warlord AND the next-in-line for CW status.

Heck, you can compare it shot for shot. The damage to Ansom was done because the pink goop could only disable one of the two of Oss and Trem; in Jillian's assault, she only needed to disable Ansom. The damage to the archons and Jack was done by the arrows - quadrupled by a dittomancer, whereas Ansom had little archery and no dittomancer.

As Parson said, Ansom going down was just a matter of time, and it was a question of how much damage he could do before being taken. He successfully killed a CW and Royal Heir from Haggar before being captured - that's MORE than Ossomer's capture cost.

[Ansan Gotti]

Well, the maybe-wounded-warlord plus half of Haggar's army and their Chief Warlord croaked. Don't forget that - as Sammy said, they were going in as the first wave, and so they did. First wave to soften up the position, second wave to deal the killing blow.

And, even before the first wave, Jillian was attacking a far weaker position - a Chief Warlord, no casters, either no or little archery and other warlords (we certainly didn't see any, though apparently there were a few), compared to a hex with three casters, a stack full of noble warlords, the Chief Warlord AND the next-in-line for CW status.

Heck, you can compare it shot for shot. The damage to Ansom was done because the pink goop could only disable one of the two of Oss and Trem; in Jillian's assault, she only needed to disable Ansom. The damage to the archons and Jack was done by the arrows - quadrupled by a dittomancer, whereas Ansom had little archery and no dittomancer.

As Parson said, Ansom going down was just a matter of time, and it was a question of how much damage he could do before being taken. He successfully killed a CW and Royal Heir from Haggar before being captured - that's MORE than Ossomer's capture cost.

Yes, but Jillian Sue didn't have to pay that cost; Haggar and Charlie did. That's one of the aspects of a Mary Sue, IMO. Bad things happen to other people, not to Mary Sue. To the extent costs are paid, they're paid by others. Mary Sue gets off scot-free.

[ftl]

Yes, but Jillian Sue didn't have to pay that cost; Haggar and Charlie did. That's one of the aspects of a Mary Sue, IMO. Bad things happen to other people, not to Mary Sue. To the extent costs are paid, they're paid by others. Mary Sue gets off scot-free.

So, what's your point? That Charlie's propping up Jill by having other people take hits for her? Yeah, duh. She's being manipulated by Charlie and Don King and doesn't seem to mind it because she gets to do her own thing as long as she keeps pointing her sword at GK. We've known that since, like, forever.

My point was that tactically, the capturing of Ossomer and the capturing of Ansom were comparable by costs to the respective sides (GK/RCCII), and that given the setup, the casualties made sense from the game perspective. I'm not sure what your point is, now; why are you claiming that Jillian should have lost a megalogwiff or two in that attack? Are you claiming that?