Gobwin Bump Version 2.1

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Re: Gobwin Bump Version 2.1

Postby Azgrut » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:22 pm

Unit leveling, even though it is awesome, should be made ultimately simple or not be added at all. Image for instance how the unit composition sheets would look like if every stack had 8 units with different amounts of exp. Not to mention the proposed increaces in attack and defence would start chaos. :p. I say KISS and leave leveling to commanders.

I do thnik the new scout rules are strange. Keep to the old scout rules :).
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Re: Gobwin Bump Version 2.1

Postby LTDave » Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:04 pm

Issues:

1. I can fix the random number thing - I'm inclined to agree that it is too spread.

2. The unit upgrade - yeah, that's complicated. I was thinking something like - "Every unit in the stack gets +1 Defence". But I agree with KISS or Kill it.
I'll think some more.

3. What exactly don't people like about the scout change? I haven't changed it since 2.1. It's mainly to make life easier for the GM. And no, you aren't limited to 1 hex from the unit for scouting - you can inspect adjacent hexes equal to the move. The first inspection will need to be adjacent to the unit, the next just needs to be adkacent to the last one, and so on. Check out the example in the rules.

4. Yes, the cost of ranged units is equal to the Attacks. Special = Attacks

5. What did people think of my pretty map? Pretty snazzy, eh?

6.
Also how does only the first 8 units in a stack count rule combine with the commanders can pick who they hit rule. Say the stack was 8 units with 5 hits and 5 defence and a 9th unit with 1 hit and 1 defence, would they have to deal 43 points of damage to cwoak that 9th unit?


No, only 42, if I understand what you're asking. Only the first 8 units gets their Defence considered (40). To kill a unit that is not in the front row costs double the hits - 2. 42. We don't count the Defence (or Attack) of any unit that isn't listed as being in the first 8.

If it was a Commander with 5 hits as the 2nd (or 23rd unit), then the player would have to do 60 hits total {4x the hits}.

7. turbler wants to see my units? So do I. Just give me a bit to work out the final bugs...

I redraft to 2.3b today, and then we can get under way shortly.
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Re: Gobwin Bump Version 2.1

Postby LTDave » Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:12 pm

Version 2.3b is up.

Visit the site: http://sites.google.com/site/erfworldempires/home/gobwin-bump-two to look at the rules, and also download the new Excel Spreadsheet. It will have a page for Unit Creation, and another for Combat. Please don't fiddle with the SSERNG page..

I've decided to leave out unit upgrades - instead, after amazing exploits, I will allow players to petition me for increases in stats, and will allow them on a whim.

I'll give folks a few hours to examine this draft for bugs, then on Tuesday morning (Aus time) I will start a new thread for the actual game.

Thanks to all those who helped with the re-draft of these rules.
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Re: Gobwin Bump Version 2.1

Postby LTDave » Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:33 am

OK. Well, it's a few hours later, and after my Sunday afternoon nap, I realize I don't like this system of defence. It's too rigid and blockish. A unit with 40 defence behind a bridge is always going to absorb 80 hits before taking any damage. That's not fun.

There's no way small units can even do any damage to big ones, which dosn't seem right.

So I'm thinking of going back to the 5/8ths thing from 2.1 - where 5 points of armour blocks out most, but not all, of the damage inflicted. Still ahve it averaged, but only across the 8, so units with a low Defence can shelter in a big stack if they wish without lowering the average. I'll think some more about it.

Ideas, comments?
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Re: Gobwin Bump Version 2.1

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:17 am

On leveling-

You know what, yes, a GM-approved system of Epic Feats of Epicness for levels is probably the best way to go. While a computer-based game could easily handle that complexity, it would be a bit tedious for us.

On the Defense thing-

Yeah, just subtracting Defense is a bit punishing to combat; using Defense as a multiplicative factor is not bad, because this means there will always be some damage dealt. The fact that you plan on averaging defense on only the first 8 is also an interesting choice, but I gather that only the first 8 units count when summing attack also ... which makes stack composition (just) a bit less interesting, but in the end it can work.

I really like the Heroes system, and hence the ATTDIF thing in my proposal, as an alternative- it's not defense average, it's defense sum vs attack sum (on the top 8), which results in either bonus or penalty to damage depending on whether summed attack or summed defense is higher, and by how much. But we can test that some other time.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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Re: Gobwin Bump Version 2.1

Postby LTDave » Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:02 am

OK, so the new version is on the site. This is 2.3c, and I'm pretty happy with it. Ain't perfect, but she'll fly.

http://sites.google.com/site/erfworldempires/home/gobwin-bump-two

Post your thoughts here - but wait for the new thread to start creating units, etc.
There might be a bug somewhere, and we need to go to 2.3d!
But hopefully not.
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Re: Gobwin Bump Version 2.1

Postby The Black Hand » Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:30 am

Mmm, now I'm kind of torn between working with ENCOM (give it a playtest and a few tweaks before WotA II), and bringing back the Kanite Legion . . . >.> <.<
The strength of our future lies in our past.
-VNV Nation

There is no instance of a nation benefiting from prolonged warfare.
-Sun-tzu, The Art of War
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Re: Gobwin Bump Version 2.1

Postby turbler » Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:31 am

firstly, whose attack and defense are getting total'd? (For combat)
secondly, I forgot what secondly was. . . :oops:
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Re: Gobwin Bump Version 2.1

Postby LTDave » Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:05 pm

I've thought of one more thing I want to change. Average defence should be the entire stack, not just the first 8 units.
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Re: Gobwin Bump Version 2.1

Postby Azgrut » Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:13 am

There is à minor flaw in the calculation for defence. :p. It says that:

8-(opp defence - terrain)/8

if a unit is in defendable terrain, it will now reduce his defencive capabilities.

Example. Unit A is in a fort and has def 3. In the calc it becomes: 8-(3-2)/8=8-(1)/8=7/8

I guess you meant (opp defence + terrain)/8 :P
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Re: Gobwin Bump Version 2.1

Postby Sihoiba » Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:01 pm

So I've been considering units. Are the stats in the spreadsheet for the gobwin bump forces accurate?
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Re: Gobwin Bump Version 2.1

Postby LTDave » Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:14 pm

This is what it should say:
Hits = Total Attack X Command Bonus X Special Bonus X Ambush Bonus X Random Number X (8 - Opposition Average Defence - Terrain Bonus) / 8

The Gobwin units in the spreadsheet are my thinking out loud - nothing set in stone yet. But this time round I think I'll have more than 5 unit types, if only to give the Defenders more diversity and options.

The latest version of the rules is up.
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Re: Gobwin Bump Version 2.1

Postby Ehbobo » Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:38 pm

-deleted-
Last edited by Ehbobo on Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gobwin Bump Version 2.1

Postby fishloaf » Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:57 am

LTDave wrote:Image



Can I offer one?

Image

Please excuse the ham-fisted textures, I got a litte more excited about making a lake than is healthy. I hope its serviceable.
Last edited by fishloaf on Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gobwin Bump Version 2.1

Postby Crovius » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:29 am

Gosh darnit! I was about to try posting my troops when I clicked a link without thinking to Ctrl click it and now I lost all of it!! ARG!!!

Anyway, before I redo the attempt, what is the final word on the cost formula? I need to know how expensive I'm making my units.
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Re: Gobwin Bump Version 2.1

Postby BLANDCorporatio » Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:05 am

Cute map with the textures, but I kina like LtDave's map better. Stuff would be easier to see and less cluttered on that one.
The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.
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