Book 2 – Page 31

[Dr Pepper]

Frankly, and maybe this is wishful thinking (it probably is given that I get the feel that Jillian is a favored character) I can see the potential for very bad things in Faq's future.

Yes, indeed, the fact that Jillian is so obviously the darling of Almost Anyone in Erfworld, the time is ripe for

TIN FOIL HATS!

My idea- Jillian has been croaked. What you see is actually Shub Niggurath wearing Jillian's skin, preparing Erfworld for the coming of the Great Old Ones.

Stanley will inadvertently cause Azathoth to wake.

Charlie will be eaten first.

And it will be up to Parson to save the day.

Parson will have Jack project the Elder Sign. And btw, Jack will prove immune to eldritch induced insanity.

[HandofShadows]

Parson will have Jack project the Elder Sign. And btw, Jack will prove immune to eldritch induced insanity.

But are the eldritch immune to Jack induced insanity?

[Jeivar]

HAW!

One of the more amusing pages in a while, without a doubt! Boy, do I love Jill's crude manners.
But am I the only one cracking up at seeing the megalo flap its tiny little wings in panel 6?

And why are so many people bitching about Jillian getting so much attention? She IS one of the MAIN characters, along with Parson, Stanley, Charlie and Wanda. That's not a big list of characters moving and shaking the plot.

[DevilDan]

I don't get the complaints. Charlie and Don may like Jillian's style up to a point, but they care far more about using her. Charlie sees her as a, well, tool, and Don sees Faq as a potential vassalage.

Equally, you give Tramennis too little credit. He's not a drooling fan boy: He's far too canny to think in those terms. He rolls with the punches: He really doesn't like her leaving but he doesn't get angry or whine about it. There's no profit in that.

"Toolism" is anti-royalism, it's the belief that alignment to Tools means a shift in who the Titans want ruling Erf.

[atalex]

What surprised me was the fact that Jillian told them that Toolism is all Stanly and Wanda does not believe it, When it is really the other way around actually.

Not at all. Stanley believes that his attunement to an Arkentool gives him the divine right to rule all of Erfworld. Wanda believes that she has a destiny to reunite all the Arkentools (and presumably their wielders) for some as yet unknown purpose. Advancing Stanley's ambitions is a means to Wanda's own personal goal, but based on her statements to Jillian, Parson and in her personal text updates, I don't see that she cares at all about Toolism Uber Alles except as the most efficient means to find and acquire the lost Arkentool.

[atalex]

I don't get the complaints. Charlie and Don may like Jillian's style up to a point, but they care far more about using her. Charlie sees her as a, well, tool, and Don sees Faq as a potential vassalage.

Equally, you give Tramennis too little credit. He's not a drooling fan boy: He's far too canny to think in those terms. He rolls with the punches: He really doesn't like her leaving but he doesn't get angry or whine about it. There's no profit in that.

"Toolism" is anti-royalism, it's the belief that alignment to Tools means a shift in who the Titans want ruling Erf.

Yeah, I really don't get this "everyone in Erfworld loves Jillian" thing.

PEOPLE WHO LOVE JILLIAN:
1. Wanda: Involved in a long term BDSM relationship with Jillian.
2. Jack: Has a school boy crush on Jillian but has thus far turned down two opportunities to join her Side.
3. Duncan: Former enemy mind-raped into submission.
4. Possibly Vinnie: Had a weird dalliance with her when she was the grieving lover of his dead best friend. Said relationship is about to become Very Complicated.

PEOPLE WHO ARE USING JILLIAN
1. Charlie: Clearly using her. Feigns politeness to stay on her good side. May become an enemy if RCC2 hires him back while Jillian holds a grudge over Ansom-gate.
2. Don Vito: Clearly using her. Seems genuinely fond of her, but he's already had two of his children executed and may be plotting the death of his Heir Designate even now. His bet all his chips on her and is compelled to support her (since turning on her would leave him vulnerable to Caesar's plotting).
3. Possibly Vinnie: He was sent to Faq to basically dictate Don Vito's directions to her, and while they've been having sex, that's not the same thing as love.

PEOPLE WHO ARE AMUSED BY JILLIAN BUT WHO WOULD PROBABLY CROAK HER IF NECESSARY AND/OR FEASIBLE
1. Charlie: See above.
2. Don Vito: See above.
3. Trem: Grateful for her assistance, and intrigued by her approach to royalty. However, the last panel of this update is a pretty strong hint that he won't be following Ansom into her bed.

PEOPLE WHO ACTIVELY WANT TO KILL JILLIAN.
1. Ansom: Fell for her after a one-night-stand. Now he wouldn't hesitate to kill her. Might change if she successfully mind-rapes him into submission.
2. Caesar: If something "unexpected" happens to Don Vito before his heir pops, Caesar will redirect all those Shmuckers currently being spent on propping up Faq into assimilating Faq into Transylvito.
3. Stanley: Nuff said.
4. Parson: Clearly sees Jillian as a major problem and has already ordered her croaking once.

She's at the center of a lot of complicated emotional and romantic entanglements, but that's mainly because she's fairly cute, sexually liberated and gets around enough to know everyone. That's not the same thing as having everyone in the world fall in love with her.

[Retconjurer]

I think Tramennis is one of those people whose personality takes a wide swing depending on the situation. When things are going well, he's deliberately irreverant (making jokes at a parlay, saying he wants to be half the "queen" she is) and frankly more than a little irritating, but when things are going poorly and his troops need a morale boost, he seems to genuinely care. He likes Jillian somewhat, but I think he just wants to irritate Duke Antiun to make up for his earlier heart on his sleeves moment.

I still am not really fond of Jillian. Trammenis is the sort of person who I wouldn't like in real life but would be decent to have around when you really need help.

[BLANDCorporatio]

And why are so many people bitching about Jillian getting so much attention? She IS one of the MAIN characters, along with Parson, Stanley, Charlie and Wanda.

Aaah, casual disparagement of opposing viewpoints while subconciously inserting references to outdated gender politics, where would we be without you?

I don't get the complaints. {About Jillian. Etc. ...}

Yeah, I really don't get this "everyone in Erfworld loves Jillian" thing.

{a few lists}

She's at the center of a lot of complicated emotional and romantic entanglements, but that's mainly because she's fairly cute, sexually liberated and gets around enough to know everyone. That's not the same thing as having everyone in the world fall in love with her.

Any way you slice it, a large number of characters do actually love Jillian, or fawn over her, and a large number of characters have given her support. Now you may want to wash it off by saying "they're trying to use her" and such, but their support is well given, as shown by the fact that Jillian can afford a Turnamancer (and the Kingworld abomination), not to mention Megs, all while being a Queen to a new Kingdom.

And come on. Tremmennis is a drooling fanboy in that last panel if ever there was such a thing, and all in the service of a queen joke. (EDIT: "rolls with the punches", "too little credit"? All the credit he deserves. If he were rolling with the punches, he'd be unfazed either way, and immediately order an attack on Wanda's group instead of telling people what a great Queen Jillian is).

So we are left with the few who have ACTIVELY expressed hostility to Jillian (as supposed to vague hypotheticals like "they'd croak her if necessary"- you know what, counterhypothetical- they may NOT): Caesar and Slately. And that is IT.

So everyone knows Jillian, because she gets around enough and is high-placed enough. Fair. But why do so many like her? And this multitude btw includes Charlie and Don, they like her enough to trust her with popping an heir (Don) and free-of-charge support (Charlie, in a boldly different move from his/her/its/their MO).

Stanley is known too after all, but not much liked. And Charlie is known and respected/feared (and every 10 strips or so we are reminded why). Meanwhile, Jillian is liked because? ... If love is blind (but I repeat, why do so many people suffer from the same blindness?!) then respect at least should be earned, and a good chunk of what Jillian is now doing is only possible because of Don's and Charlie's massive support. Any idiot can be a good captain in good weather, as Faq has had, and as Jillian is.

PS: the above sketches a case for this:

I. The Erfworld Fans of Jillian Club:

1. Wanda
2. Jack
3. Vinnie
4. Duncan
5. Tremmennis
6. Don
7. Charlie
8. Vanna
9-6173901633. Everybody else

II. The Erfworld NotFan Club of Jillian

1. Caesar
2. Slately

III. The Erfworld Club of people that are considering Jillian a major threat that must be extinguished

1. Parson, for now ...
2. Stanley, when he gets his lecitin.

[waynemcdougall]

1. I *wonder* if a veiled unit who can't move on its turn can hitch a ride on, say, a Megagwiffon that is leaving the hex. Just askin'

2. Absurdly , unrealistically, infeasibly oversized sword for the win. I giggle every time I think about Jillian pulling it out and wielding it.

[effataigus]

So everyone knows Jillian, because she gets around enough and is high-placed enough. Fair. But why do so many like her? And this multitude btw includes Charlie and Don, they like her enough to trust her with popping an heir (Don) and free-of-charge support (Charlie, in a boldly different move from his/her/its/their MO).

Indeed, is there love in Erfworld that doesn't involve Jillian? Maggie and Sizemore have a good "rapport." Unaroyal's queen seems keen on Don. Vurp "trusts" Parson. Maggie might have a crush on Parson... but I can't think of any romantic love connections that don't connect to Jillian.

I'm curious about the role of love in Erfworld because so far it's acting like a school of mind control magic in which Jillian is the only caster. Aside from the title, people don't even mention it except in the context of her and background discussions in the magic kingdom.

[Ansan Gotti]

Spot on, BLAND. Spot on.

[Simons Mith]

I think somebody ought to sit young Prince Tramennis down and explain to him as gently as possible that boys can't be queens. Not even a little bit.

Spoiler: show

Um, except for a very specialised definition of 'queen' which I doubt is used in Erfworld.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Spot on, BLAND. Spot on.

Thanks, here's more. Enjoy!




(In which more beating on the dead horse ensues, as BLANDCorporatio attempts to explain hyperbole without backpedalling)

Have any of you watched Steven Seagall movies? Or, if ZP's review is anything to go by, played that 50Cent game?

'Cause that's where Erfworld looks headed to, with regard to Jillian.

Of course there's bad guys out there out to futilely try to off Steven or Fifty, and of course sometimes they encounter the disapproval of some stick-in-the-mud authority (sound familiar?) but in the end, they are right, they are effective, they are what every other good guy aspires to be if only they were similarly kick-ass.

And that's where Jillian seems to be placed now. Sure, that dude in the strip is upset by her behaviour but who cares about that nobody? Tremmennis, so far presented as the voice of practicality and common sense against the Jetstone rigid traditionalism (and therefore, Tremmennis, the voice that speaks what you should also approve of), is all over Jillian.

[DevilDan]

Bland, you forgot Classic Ansom and New Ansom.

1. Wanda
2. Jack
3. Vinnie
4. Duncan
5. Tremmennis
6. Don
7. Charlie
8. Vanna

Don and Charlie may like her because she's unconventional: neither is a die-hard traditionalist. But they won't hesitate to end her. Duncan is bound by duty, loyalty, etc. Vanna is an employee. Vinnie would probably not want to kill her, but would if he's either ordered to do it or thinks it's his duty to do so (Plotmancy being the exception). Tramennis would kill her in a second if it helped him protect Spacerock or even himself. He is no fool.

And given all the recent shenanigans, I don't think Don King's going to be a fan of hers for long.

[Jeivar]

I. The Erfworld Fans of Jillian Club:

1. Wanda
2. Jack
3. Vinnie
4. Duncan
5. Tremmennis
6. Don
7. Charlie
8. Vanna
9-6173901633. Everybody else

Huh? "Everybody else" is a "fan" of Jillian? She's a powerful warrior and is in a fairly unique situation that makes her a valuable ally/tool for various indivituals, but I'd hardly call that being a "fan".
It seems to me you just dislike the character, which is fine, but which is also causing you to completely make up additional reasons to dislike her. Like an anti-fan. I know the signs, I've been one myself on occasion.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Huh? "Everybody else" is a "fan" of Jillian? She's a powerful warrior and is in a fairly unique situation that makes her a valuable ally/tool for various indivituals, but I'd hardly call that being a "fan".

The 6 billion figure should be an obvious indicator that exaggeration is going on.

Not LITERALLY everyone is in love with Jillian, obviously (but a good chunk are, and another chunk- Charlie, Don- we can debate on; I'd say they've given Jillian way too good deals to qualify as merely "using her").

But, see my Steven Seagall/50Cent post above.

Also, my bias is obvious, which allows fair discussion. You know where I am coming from, and so engage with the things said. Biased people say true things now and then, just like stopped clocks sometimes get the time right.

[Godsire]

I havent posted in a while.

I'm addicted to this comic, I check for a new page 30 times a day (mobile Internet yay) when I know it's coming to an update.

The last few weeks of the comic have been surprisingly dissatisfying though. The nonsense dialogues which could be wrapped up way earlier, and a lot of stuff in the comic which would belong much better in a text update. Heck,I'm almost starting to believe Rob might as well write a book out of it cause I seem to begin liking the text updates over the comic. The art and characters are too awesome though.

Don't get me wrong, I frigging love this comic, but as far as I see it going now, book 1 is going to be 10 times better than book 2 is turning out to be.

Let's get to the battling finally!

Here's my prediction: dittomancer gets croaked, King Slately gets pissed at Trem and Tremmenis will stop caring for Jetstone. Slately loses it, disbands his son and gets croaked by the decrypted Dwagons, causing Jetstone to fall.

[BLANDCorporatio]

Don and Charlie may like her because she's unconventional: neither is a die-hard traditionalist. But they won't hesitate to end her. {And neither would Tremmennis} Duncan is bound by duty, loyalty, etc. Vanna is an employee. Vinnie would probably not want to kill her, but would if he's either ordered to do it or thinks it's his duty to do so (Plotmancy being the exception).

Cool, but how do you know this- that Tremmennis would croak Jillian in a second? Or that either of Don or Charlie would? All we have so far as actual evidence in the text is these characters' support/approval for/of Jillian.

Duncan has in fact expressed feelings about Jillian that are beyond mere Duty compulsion in the Text logs. Maggie has Duty to Stanley but I doubt she regards him the same way Duncan sees Jillian.

[Ansan Gotti]

Duncan has in fact expressed feelings about Jillian that are beyond mere Duty compulsion in the Text logs. Maggie has Duty to Stanley but I doubt she regards him the same way Duncan sees Jillian.

We know this for a fact, although both for in-game mechanics reasons. Duncan is slavishly loyal at least partially because he has been mindraped to be so. Maggie is less loyal to Stanley at least partially because he demoted a popular Chief Warlord.

Don't get me wrong, I frigging love this comic, but as far as I see it going now, book 1 is going to be 10 times better than book 2 is turning out to be.

I am still reserving judgment. I think the author is a phenomenal writer and storyteller, so I am going to wait until the end of Book 2. (Which will probably be in half-a-dozen pages or less, I believe.)

[Lamech]

Any way you slice it, a large number of characters do actually love Jillian, or fawn over her, and a large number of characters have given her support. Now you may want to wash it off by saying "they're trying to use her" and such, but their support is well given, as shown by the fact that Jillian can afford a Turnamancer (and the Kingworld abomination), not to mention Megs, all while being a Queen to a new Kingdom.

Don is very clearly trying to get a vassal state. I suspect that there may be economic reasons why two kingdoms of say... 5 cities is better than one of ten. Also a wider variety of unit types, the ablity to get conflicting natural allies, and the advantage a new side has in getting a caster all point ot reasons why Don would want a vassal state. Like Ceaser said, Jillian was their stack, although now she's run off and appears to be working with Charlie, I wonder how Don will handle it...

Charlie is "supporting" her. Possibly rather fully if he thought Jillian was planning on "freeing" Ansom. Or its possible he is using her, and doesn't care about her goals.

And come on. Tremmennis is a drooling fanboy in that last panel if ever there was such a thing, and all in the service of a queen joke.

Yup, Tremm is definitly a fanboy. Jillian appears to have lied to him, and may be trying to manipulate him to protect Wanda. Nor should this even be remotely surprising, Jillian has point-blank said her reason for coming was to capture a unit, and she isn't willing to help fight the largest threat to Jetstone. Trem may want to be like her, but he still should be damn suspicious of her.

So we are left with the few who have ACTIVELY expressed hostility to Jillian (as supposed to vague hypotheticals like "they'd croak her if necessary"- you know what, counterhypothetical- they may NOT): Caesar and Slately. And that is IT.

Don's flat out holding her kingdom as a vassal, and I expect him to take the heir to FAQ as a hostage. Charlie may have just intentionally attempted to croak one of her loved ones. (Or may have mistook Jillian's unclear directions.)

Stanley is known too after all, but not much liked. And Charlie is known and respected/feared (and every 10 strips or so we are reminded why). Meanwhile, Jillian is liked because? ... If love is blind (but I repeat, why do so many people suffer from the same blindness?!) then respect at least should be earned, and a good chunk of what Jillian is now doing is only possible because of Don's and Charlie's massive support. Any idiot can be a good captain in good weather, as Faq has had, and as Jillian is.

I can certainly see why Trem wants to be like her. Don sees Jillian as someone to use. Charlie either sees Jillian as the same or someone who would make a convient ally. So like, one person who actually respects her. No her mindraped chief warlord doesn't count.

And given all the recent shenanigans, I don't think Don King's going to be a fan of hers for long.

Don is going to be ticked. Big-time. Of course, he won't want to admit that Ceaser was 100% correct. His reaction will be very interesting.